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 lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 5,920
Loc: South Texas
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 Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan
#8396066 - 05/13/08 10:16 AM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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WASHINGTON - The Senate has rejected a Republican energy plan that calls for opening an Alaska wildlife refuge and some offshore waters to oil development. Supporters of the measure couldn't get the needed 60 votes to overcome a Democratic-led filibuster threat.
Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky said more domestic oil production is needed to keep prices in check and to reduce U.S. dependence on oil imports.
Opponents said areas such as the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and coastal waters that have been off limits to drilling for 25 years ought to remain that out of bounds to oil companies. The GOP measure, defeated Tuesday by a vote of 56-42, would have allowed coastal states to get a waiver to the offshore drilling ban.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080513/ap_on_go_co/congress_energy
The Democrats will not allow us to drill offshore but the CHINESE ARE STARTING TO DRILL ON OUR OFFSHORE BORDERS!
BTW when the Democrats took back over Congress oil was $58 a barrel....
Where’s the Democrats plan?
What is the plan? just a bigger trade deficit as we Continue to import oil from countries who hate us?
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 5,920
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: lonestar2004]
#8396653 - 05/13/08 01:03 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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LONDON (AFP) — The price of crude oil struck a record high 126.98 dollars a barrel on Tuesday despite expectations of slower demand growth for crude, traders said.
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5ipKVYCuVG5-F9pUCegfquJXBlGHw
I predict $150.00 this fall.
this is gonna hurt some people....
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Yossarian22
Stranger
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: lonestar2004]
#8396770 - 05/13/08 01:36 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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So? Any oil drilling would take years before it would reach full capacity, so it would do little to lower gas prices now. What's more, the amount of crude predicted would hardly be a drop in the bucket, so its eventual impact would be minor. It would however destroy a shitload of pristine wilderness and threaten native wildlife.
While certain things can be done to lower fuel prices, like stabilizing the dollar and restoring some stability to the Middle East after running roughshod over there for the last 8 years like a coked-up cowboy threatening to bomb any country that looks at us funny, the truth is that the days of cheap and plentiful oil are coming to a close and we need to restructure our infrastructure and our way of life to reflect that. Cars need to have better mileage and cities need to rein in suburban sprawl, establish viable public transportation, and encourage appropriate-density growth. No matter how many endangered species we make extinct or how many hectares of national forest are turned into industrial parks, we cannot continue consuming oil like we do. Prices will most likely keep rising due to increased demand in developing nations and dwindling reserves; perhaps that's good because probably the only way we'll get the message that our current lifestyle is unsustainable is if it becomes financially unfeasible.
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fireworks_god
Sexy ButtMcDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 20,288
Loc: red panda village
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: lonestar2004]
#8396815 - 05/13/08 01:44 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
Republican leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky said more domestic oil production is needed to keep prices in check and to reduce U.S. dependence on oil imports.
Reducing dependence on oil itself would seem to be the way to reduce dependence on oil imports. When you are dependent upon a non-renewable resource as others exhibit increasing demand upon it, obviously its game over at some point.
Quote:
Opponents said areas such as the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and coastal waters that have been off limits to drilling for 25 years ought to remain that out of bounds to oil companies.
Not sure about the offshore drilling, but they should never be given the right to drill in the ANWR. Must humans desecrate and destruct every area of nature?
Quote:
The Democrats will not allow us to drill offshore but the CHINESE ARE STARTING TO DRILL ON OUR OFFSHORE BORDERS!
So what? If it isn't within our borders then it doesn't matter where the Chinese are drilling. Must Americans have everything?
Quote:
BTW when the Democrats took back over Congress oil was $58 a barrel....
When the Democrats took back over Congress, the earth rotated on its axis. Do you think those bastards were responsible? 
Quote:
What is the plan? just a bigger trade deficit as we Continue to import oil from countries who hate us?
Oh no, they hate us?  Well, that changes everything then. 
--------------------
 
Meet me in outer space
We could spend the night;
watch the earth come up 
I've grown tired of that place;
won't you come with me?
We could start again.
 
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 5,920
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: Yossarian22]
#8396942 - 05/13/08 02:11 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Yossarian22 said:
So? Any oil drilling would take years before it would reach full capacity,
i guess the Chinese think different.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
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Loc: South Texas
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: lonestar2004]
#8396971 - 05/13/08 02:16 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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Besides the Chinese we have Canada, Mexico, Cuba, and Venezuela, all drilling around us?
i wonder why?
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Yossarian22
Stranger
Registered: 09/12/07
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: lonestar2004]
#8397008 - 05/13/08 02:29 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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Why do you care if other countries drill for oil under the sea? It all ends up on the same international market anyway. It's not as if people are preventing drilling for no good reason, just to spite the evil oilmen; ANWR is a protected nature reserve and houses a great deal of environmental diversity. Ruining that so we can enrich a few oil tycoons and save half a cent on gas is madness.
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 cottlestonpie
wanderer
Registered: 01/18/03
Posts: 451
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: Yossarian22]
#8397031 - 05/13/08 02:35 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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well said, the only thing that can turn this country around is a big slap in the face. gas prices have already slapped us, eventually it will kick us in the balls.
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"If you will it there is no dream"
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 5,920
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 6 hours, 40 minutes
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: Yossarian22]
#8397133 - 05/13/08 02:53 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Yossarian22 said:
Why do you care if other countries drill for oil under the sea? It all ends up on the same international market anyway. It's not as if people are preventing drilling for no good reason, just to spite the evil oilmen;
just preventing "Evil" American from drilling.
i really don't mind the Chinese drilling near Florida, i do mind our large Deficit.
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danknugz81
spiralingdownward
Registered: 02/22/08
Posts: 771
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: cottlestonpie]
#8397139 - 05/13/08 02:55 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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i watched the debates on c-span yesterday and saw all these dickwads arguing back and forth on this bill.
first off, both sides have good points. GOP wants more drilling, Dems want regulation over oil markets to counteract the massive speculation going on in unregulated foreign oil markets which is artificially inflating the price of oil by as much as 60%.
what i dont understand is why the 2 parties cant get together and make a bill that satisfies both sides. the dems do have a point in that a lot of oil land leases have been given to the big oil companies over the last 10 years and they have essentially done NO development with the land. instead, they sit on the land, and count the potential oil as part of their reserves, to drive up the prices of their stock.
my proposal - allow more drilling/leases but set specific time frames on when they need to be at production capacity and make the FTC enforce their power to regulate the foreign oil markets.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,356
Loc: Americas
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: fireworks_god]
#8397178 - 05/13/08 03:03 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
Reducing dependence on oil itself would seem to be the way to reduce dependence on oil imports. When you are dependent upon a non-renewable resource as others exhibit increasing demand upon it, obviously its game over at some point.
what does this have to do w/ anything? Total red herring
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Quote:
Not sure about the offshore drilling, but they should never be given the right to drill in the ANWR. Must humans desecrate and destruct every area of nature?
Another red herring. This is like the folks that say smoking establishments are bad for workers, and so they ban smoking, even if the establishment has no workers, or 0 smoke inhalation by workers.
If you don't like destruction, why don't you ban destruction?
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KillerPicklez
Garden Hands
Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 2,671
Loc: Arizona
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: lonestar2004]
#8397237 - 05/13/08 03:13 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
Besides the Chinese we have Canada, Mexico, Cuba, and Venezuela, all drilling around us?
i wonder why?
I think we are the only major country who doesnt off-shore drill. Hell there are U.S companies who drill off-shore of Mexico.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 31,945
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: KillerPicklez]
#8397635 - 05/13/08 05:01 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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and it's a good thing.
when mexico's coastlines are toxic and wrecked they will come to
our country to vacation.
personally, I'd rather they build another diablo canyon or san onofre
than put rigs offshore.
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I eat steak medium at most, I use bare hands to eat it and its usually after an hour long fuck fest with several women, and with a full keg of the coldest beer.
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toastandjam
Tastes Great, Less Filling
Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 711
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: lonestar2004]
#8398554 - 05/13/08 09:09 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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I don't understand the hard-on for drilling ANWR. It'd be excellent to be able to tell the Saudis to go fuck themselves but I think we can cut 12% of our imports out through technology and lifestyle adjustments easily. Ridiculously easily and its the far nobler, far more reasonable, rational path. Most of the rest of our oil comes from (currently) friendly countries.
And besides, that shit is strategic reserve. Let the chinese decimate their environment. The republicans wanted to start drilling when oil was $40-odd \ barrel. Now its $160ish. Whoopie. ANWR oil, my man, is for when its $500+ \ barrel, if ever.
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Q: We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons... and for one brief moment, you did.
PICARD: When I realized the paradox...
Q: Exactly. For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you'd never considered. That's the exploration that awaits you...not mapping stars and studying nebulae... but charting the unknowable possibilities of existence.
To carry yourself forward and experience myriad things is delusion. That myriad things come forth and experience themselves is awakening. -Dogen Zenji
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KillerPicklez
Garden Hands
Registered: 12/13/07
Posts: 2,671
Loc: Arizona
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: toastandjam]
#8398598 - 05/13/08 09:16 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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there are so many alternatives to crude oil the government is just blocking the way of the free market and not allowing capitalist the opportunity to succeed. for a country that prides itself on innovation the federals have really handcuffed capitalist by not providing ample funding for alternative energy and energy independence solutions. such as coal-to-oil although much better technology exists.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,356
Loc: Americas
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: KillerPicklez]
#8398794 - 05/13/08 09:47 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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Quote:
KillerPicklez said:
there are so many alternatives to crude oil the government is just blocking the way of the free market and not allowing capitalist the opportunity to succeed. for a country that prides itself on innovation the federals have really handcuffed capitalist by not providing ample funding for alternative energy and energy independence solutions. such as coal-to-oil although much better technology exists.
How is government blocking the way and not allowing capitalists the opportunity to succeed?
And then you follow that up w/ claiming they don't give capitalists ample funding?
Capitalists w/ public capital is socialism, not capitalism.
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toastandjam
So saudi arabia isn't one of the friendly countries we get our oil from? Who are they? What makes them better than the Suadis?
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KillerPicklez
Garden Hands
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Posts: 2,671
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: johnm214]
#8398834 - 05/13/08 09:58 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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there are far to many examples for me to get into. its not all about public funds as much as tax breaks and incentives for technological advances. Heres my view, we all know there are ways America could be energy independent but it doesnt happen. I blame the government.
Oil companies arent the enemy they are part of the solution, they have experience in the industry and a lot of their own resources. But if you have been paying attention the government often acts as though the oil companies are criminals by regulating their every move.
Exxon and Chevron are doing a great job in harvesting alternative energy sources I just dont think they get the support from the government that they ought to considering our current energy situation and debt.
Everyone has that damn "Not in my backyard" syndrome
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,356
Loc: Americas
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: KillerPicklez]
#8398917 - 05/13/08 10:18 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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If by incentives you mean tax breaks, than I think these are indistinguishable from government funding. If government substantially funds research, then the fruits should be held in the public domain.
Companies can allready write off their research expenses. I'm not aware of anything limiting the ability of the energy companies to completely write off any investigations into alternative energy sources.
But I don't know that there's ways we could be energy independant. I read about it in the paper and on the boards, but these fancy editorial writters and commenters here never explain how this will/could be accomplished. But I guess what do you expect from newspapers, they never cite their sources with anything more than"so and so at some thinktank says this" without refrencing any detailed plan capable of meaningful critique.
Government does say a lot of nonsense about how energy companies are bad. I don't know if they do too much though, besides regulation and permits.
If this country shifted more towards a libertarian model we wouldn't have alot of this bullshit, such as the NIMBY crap you mention. We need to recognize people can do w/ there property what they wish. If they pollute or otherwise harm property owners, then they should be able to be sued.
Tough shit for the yuppies who don't want miniscule turbines visible from their summer homes off the cape, or folks who don't like the idea of an oil refinery opening. I agree they should be able to sue and recover for direct harm, such as poisoned water or air, but not cuz they don't like how something looks or cuz it drives down property values. I guess the Cape Cod wind turbines are a little different cuz I presume they're to be built on public land, but I see no reason why they shouldn't proceed. The whole controversy is a huge farce, considering the miniscule impact and the great public support.
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LaineRB
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: johnm214]
#8399454 - 05/14/08 12:47 AM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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Thank god it was defeated. If the Republicans couldn't open ANWR while they had the majority in Congress and the White House then I hope it will forever remain closed.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: Senate rejects GOP oil drilling plan [Re: lonestar2004]
#8399714 - 05/14/08 05:03 AM (4 months, 21 days ago) |
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Quote:
BTW when the Democrats took back over Congress oil was $58 a barrel....
And when President Bush took office, it was less than $40.
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