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 Chronic777
Empty Awareness
 
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 3,163
Loc: Behind Your Eyeballs
Last seen: 15 hours, 9 minutes
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 All & Nothing...
#8392849 - 05/12/08 01:52 PM (4 months, 24 days ago) |
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All & nothing mean the same.
Many if not all spiritual minded people wish to become one with the all, so expand they're egos into a spiritual ego that believes itself one with the all.
They are creating they're own fantasy reality based on the words of the wise sages.
The sages say desirelessness is liberation, so the spiritual ego desires desirelessness.
The sages say this world is an illusion, so the spiritual ego cultivates an illusionary world.
The sages say all of existence is one, so the spiritual ego cultivates a vision of oneness, seemingly becoming one with all things.
This is false, a false delusional reality, even more delusional than the waking reality of daily human life, all it is, is new conditioning.
Only through becoming nothing can you become one with the all, when you become nothing ego is destroyed, resulting in you becoming one with the all, you can not expand yourself to the all as this is the ego's wishes! When you expand ego you will find it will come crashing back into misery.
You must become empty, nothing, then the all is you.
When "you" are not, nothing is.
When "you" are not, all is!
This has to be remembered as i too created my own spiritual ego and felt moments of being one with the entire existence, only to realise i had cultivated this vision with new attachments to concepts of oneness etc and had forced this upon my minds creative skills.
Emptiness is the only way to awaken, to be utterly empty, to become nothing, and have the courage to rest as this. No matter how disturbing your ego kicks up the dust of the mind, remain as emptiness, just try it, become empty for one hour, read a chapter of a book empty, eat one meal empty, drink a cup of water empty.
See how everything comes alive when perceived from emptiness, how all flavours are savoured to the last drop.
When your in the cinema watching the big screen, your in the film so much because you forget "you", you become empty, you become engrossed in the film.
Engross yourself in life.
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"Only if one knows the truth of love, which is the real nature of Self, will the strong entangled knot of life be untied. Only if one attains the height of love will liberation be attained. Such is the heart of reality. The experience of Self is only love, which is seeing only love, hearing only love, feeling only love, tasting only love & smelling only love, which is bliss"
Edited by Chronic777 (05/12/08 02:11 PM)
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MokshaIs
everywhereeverpresent
Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 385
Last seen: 5 hours, 28 minutes
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 Re: All & Nothing... [Re: Chronic777]
#8393686 - 05/12/08 05:59 PM (4 months, 24 days ago) |
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how to stop manifesting the delusional reality?
is it as simple as knowing mind to not be true? then coming back to inherent awareness?
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in all of Infinite
there is but One
and it is nOne
ever and always
in every and all ways
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JoseLibrado
return
Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
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Re: All & Nothing... [Re: MokshaIs]
#8394081 - 05/12/08 07:45 PM (4 months, 24 days ago) |
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hey Chronic
If emptiness is nothing and fullness is everything, and they are the same thing, how can one feel empty and full? Because why would you want to experience emptiness and not fullness?
Oh and how do you know you are experiencing emptiness and not some counterfitted form?
It seems just as delusional to say that someone feeling at one with it all is delusional.
There is no way to measure the infinite...so why try and not even succeed and not even fail?
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The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.
And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.
Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.
Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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JoseLibrado
return
Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
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Re: All & Nothing... [Re: MokshaIs]
#8394092 - 05/12/08 07:47 PM (4 months, 24 days ago) |
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hey Chronic
If emptiness is nothing and fullness is everything, and they are the same thing, how can one feel empty and full? Because why would you want to experience emptiness and not fullness?
Oh and how do you know you are experiencing emptiness and not some counterfitted form?
It seems just as delusional to say that someone feeling at one with it all is delusional.
There is no way to measure the infinite...so why try and not even succeed and not even fail?
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MokshaIs
everywhereeverpresent
Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 385
Last seen: 5 hours, 28 minutes
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and the abstraction dances on!
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in all of Infinite
there is but One
and it is nOne
ever and always
in every and all ways
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JoseLibrado
return
Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
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Re: All & Nothing... [Re: MokshaIs]
#8396951 - 05/13/08 02:12 PM (4 months, 23 days ago) |
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That is an abstraction itself, moksha.
I was thinking about this empty idea today, because whether you want to acknowledge it or not, it is an idea; an idea about having no ideas and experiecing what reality actually is.
Duality is. Its impossible to escape it, because the only way you know to escape one thing - is to assume there is more than one things to experience...
Ie. We can speak of being empty and how to empty it all, but we still speak of a dualistic reality, regardless, because I ask anyone who thinks emptiness is how to experience reality...this - if you know to experience reality is to first empty yourself, how do you know you are empty and/or how do you know emptiness is the way?
We cannot speak of a way, without referring to what is not that way, but this way. And so there surely seem like there is two?
Trully there is no two ways - they just manifest and are followed on unique pre-seeds, thus they flower into what seems diffferent directions - like a tree's branches seem to do, inextricably connected to the base, the one source, emptying into that way regardless as its beggingins.
This is an abstraction, i know, a concept, its true....yet explain to me how one is to live without concept, if it takes a concept itself to see that life without concept is possible?
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The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.
And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.
Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.
Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
Edited by JoseLibrado (05/13/08 02:15 PM)
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Chronic777
Empty Awareness
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 3,163
Loc: Behind Your Eyeballs
Last seen: 15 hours, 9 minutes
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My teahcer told me about a story of ancient India where concepts are like thorns, sometimes to remove the first thorn you must use a second thorn, then you throw both away!
It is emptiness beyond the concept of emptiness, it is felt, not thought about.
Yet thinking about it can make it drop to feeling as how can you think about emptiness? You cant, your mind becomes empty, then drops...
The very thinking about emptiness emptys the "I" ego-mind, then "I" drops to the source, the heart-mind, when "I" is in the heart it shines as "I AM-ness" which shines in all beings. Then you are full as you are all beings, yet you are empty of "you/ego".
This is the process of self-enquiry aswell, when "I" is enquired into, it drops back to the source, the heart.
A desire to be all beings can not be fullfilled through ego attempting to be all, as desire is the ego. The very desire to be all, is a desire of the ego! Simply recognize that as true, that any desire is that of the ego. Then watch desire & be free of it.
This is why emptiness is the best technique, it leaves no room for ego or desire to arise as a belief.
Most yoga will teach you to be all, to expand your ego until it is perfect, to fight with yourself, which is near impossible, tantra tells you to accpet yourself & then be empty, to totally kill the ego, give it no room to arise, then you are one with the all.
Otherwise any spirituality is merly an ego trip. It all starts as an ego trip, but the end, the goal, is complete dissolution of the ego, all that is needed is the courage to do so. If anyone is scared, find out who is scared!
The heart fears absolutely nothing as it is all.
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"Only if one knows the truth of love, which is the real nature of Self, will the strong entangled knot of life be untied. Only if one attains the height of love will liberation be attained. Such is the heart of reality. The experience of Self is only love, which is seeing only love, hearing only love, feeling only love, tasting only love & smelling only love, which is bliss"
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JoseLibrado
return
Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
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Re: All & Nothing... [Re: Chronic777]
#8401105 - 05/14/08 02:15 PM (4 months, 22 days ago) |
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"It is emptiness beyond the concept of emptiness, it is felt, not thought about."
I think you've confused one thing. Thought and feeling are one, conceptually - they do not exist seperately, the proof is in your sentence and in anybodies who need to say this.
If the emptiness is beyond conceptualization - how else to know this without a concept and thought saying "It is emptiness beyond concept of emptiness."
I agree with one thing - fabricating emptiness as in creating a good and bad, as in :I love everyone; because i am empty...is nonesense and delusional. I realized that this is what i was doing before and began to wonder if there was a more authentic experience, something which felt natural. Utimatly, it comes down to using the powers of the Mind, to see through illusion itself, because the mind is the center of experience, it links us to experiencing everything as dualistic, then even harmoniously.
Your words a wonderfully elegant, but the problem of knowing and feeling as one is certainly apparent, and irrenconcilable...such notions direct into thoughts like " I feel beyond feelings" Or "Emptiness beyond conceptualization of emptiness" Both collapse unto themselves because they negate and this is like saying "I am in canada, beyond canada" Utlimatly its like saying, both i am beyond canada and in canada....I am both one and two. g2g chron, peace and love bro!
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The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.
And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.
Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.
Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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soldatheero
Stranger
Registered: 03/09/07
Posts: 43
Last seen: 4 months, 16 days
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Yeah i see where your getting at chronic.
The point is that there is no "self" outside of the conception of self but with absence of the thought of self there is only pure awareness or experiance of the moment.
Why is there so self outside of the idea of self? The truth is that nothing in reality exists truly individually, pure individuality is a delusion of the mind. Things only become "things" because of the mind generalizing and categorizing. The ego is the mind attempting to identify, or categorize itself as an individual thing. This creates an ongoing delusion of the self.
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JoseLibrado
return
Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 2 months, 8 days
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I think the problem with all this no self, construct is the difficulties in definitions.
Questions of self-identity, is always a construct used to guide your expression.
Gay or Straight?
It really makes no difference, because even attempting to create a self is done through the what you are, which is really what we ask.
Ie. What are you in relation to culture?
Mexican, latino, chinese, its all a way to gather information about what to do with our lives, where to put our creative energy.
Ie. I want to help my people into a better future. Can be read as, I want to help (insert identity) people into a better future.
So yes there is no self, but does that mean you will allow a person to put a prod up the anus which you excrete from? Unlikely, no matter your consious idea of self.
Though that seems like a emotional stanza, it is not. I merly attempt to point out that living without concept, in times like these is not helpful. When it comes to an idea of the self, i believe now that we need it, especially if it means acknowledging that we are all the same stuff.
The trick and the fun lies in balancing the duality that we exist separate, while handling problems with resource scarcity, violence, which seems to erupt within nature anyways, and acknowledging our infallable identical, identity.
Its just impossible and impracticle to live without concept...their thoughts and thoughts are.
--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.
And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.
Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.
Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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