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 sketchydelux
niggrow
 
Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 211
Last seen: 3 days, 8 hours
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 self defense
#8351982 - 05/01/08 11:21 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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if you are being assaulted, is there any amount of self defense that is excessive enough that charges could be brought upon the "victim"?
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 johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 5,998
Loc: Americas
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In the united states its an affirmative defense generally, that you have to prove that it was neccessary and reasonable. Variying states have different schemes, i.e. some define reasonable as anything so long as your in your home and being invaded.
From your portrait it appears you're in africa, so I can't help you with that.
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four20snakeman
Background Noise
Registered: 06/11/03
Posts: 1,445
Loc: /\ /\ Right there /\ /\
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From what I understand, the level of self defense can not escalate the situation. If they are using fists you can't use a weapon, if they have a knife you cant use a gun, etc. along the same lines.
Also from what I figure, you must stop with your self defense actions when the other person is no longer a reasonable threat. Which means after you get the person down, you can't keep kicking for kicking's sake.
This is no way legal advice because I have no clue what the law really states, but this is the route I will go until informed otherwise.
Just my $0.02 YMMV
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sketchydelux
niggrow
Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 211
Last seen: 3 days, 8 hours
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
From your portrait it appears you're in africa, so I can't help you with that.
no, you did help. thank god for the informed!
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 15,467
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 hours, 41 minutes
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Quote:
From what I understand, the level of self defense can not escalate the situation. If they are using fists you can't use a weapon, if they have a knife you cant use a gun,
Close, but bad example. If somebody is stabbing me to death with a plastic fork, and I have a gun, then I have the right to shoot them to save my life. It is the situation, not the type of weapon, that matters.
Quote:
you must stop with your self defense actions when the other person is no longer a reasonable threat.
Yep. If they turn tail and run, and I shoot them in the back while they are fleeing, then I am going to be the one getting in trouble.
The above is in the US as I understand it (I am not an expert in this field).
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Just another spore in the wind.
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 DimensionX
Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1,224
Last seen: 16 seconds
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If you have to defend yourself its a good idea to leave the scene quickly and try to avoid having to explain yourself to the police or the courts. You can very easily get in trouble for defending yourself, especially if you really hurt the person, which can easily happen if your trying to subdue someone.
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fastfred
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 4,326
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Quote:
From what I understand, the level of self defense can not escalate the situation. If they are using fists you can't use a weapon, if they have a knife you cant use a gun, etc. along the same lines.
As Seuss pointed out that's not really true. The rule I've seen applied is that if they have a gun you can shoot them at any range. If they have a knife they must be within 7 feet. I assume that if they're unarmed you need to wait until actually attacked unless they are invading your home.
Quote:
If you have to defend yourself its a good idea to leave the scene quickly and try to avoid having to explain yourself to the police or the courts. You can very easily get in trouble for defending yourself, especially if you really hurt the person, which can easily happen if your trying to subdue someone.
Maybe in some cases. But if you leave they are going to tell the cops that you attacked them and ran off after assaulting them. Then they'll be looking for you and you'll have a hard time claiming self-defence.
When you are attacked you are supposed to report the crime, if you don't it's really hard to argue your case when they already have the other guy's side. If you tell your side first the cops can do a lot to try to prove who's telling the truth. If you don't the attacker has a chance to come up with a story and explain the evidence in his favor. When they get to you they'll already have questioned the attacker and will only want to question you and try to prove that you're lying.
There's also the fact that you can get in a lot of trouble for not reporting and rendering assistance to somebody who's injured. Attackers don't usually report their own crime and they don't stick around to help the victim. The fact that you immediately reported the incident and stayed to help the injured person goes a long way towards proving your story.
-FF
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 90,001
Loc: S.F.I.G.E.L.
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Re: self defense [Re: fastfred]
#8352902 - 05/02/08 08:25 AM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
If they have a knife they must be within 7 feet.
my uncle was convicted and served 8 years in a florida prison
for defending his life and the life of another, he shot a man
point blank that bludgeoned a customer in a bar with a pool cue,
my uncle pulled a shotgun from under the bar and fired into the
ceiling, lowered the gun when the man charged him and he fired
again shooting the man in the face and chest
he was charged with aggravated assault, assault with intent to
cause harm and some other crap, the man he shot lived for 3
years of a heroin overdose, he ended up hooked on heroin because
they fed him morphine in the hospital, had the man died a year
earlier my uncle would have been charged with murder or
manslaughter
florida had no self defense law
about 6 years after he was released he ended up in a similar
situation, an altercation involving other 5 men had him walking
out of a bar to avoid escalation, he went to his van where the
group confronted him and informed him of their intent, he pulled
a pistol from the van and shot them all in the lower
extremities, legs, hips, etc... because he remembered 8 years
for self defense, the shooting occurred in a bank parking lot,
it was witnessed by a cop in the drive through, being a felon,
he ran and led them on a hell of a chase
florida still didnt have a self defense law at that time
there is no set distance for 'self defense' there are
jurisdictional 'boundries', was your life in imminent danger,
were the lives of others, could the conflict have been avoided,
was there ample opportunity to escape/evade the assailant if the
situation meets the criteria for 'necessary use of force' then
depending on the jurisdiction you are justified in doing what
ever it takes to save you life or the lives of others but no
more than that amount of force, there's a fine line between
excessive and necessary...
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"you are wrong jeetered"
"themange is awesome and win and big bouncy tits"
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fastfred
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 4,326
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Quote:
there is no set distance for 'self defense' there are jurisdictional 'boundries',
That is true. I just remember a case where they determined that 7 feet was the reasonable threshold of being in imminent danger from someone with a knife. I believe the guy was a little bit closer, but distance was part of the argument so they wanted to establish a precedent to provide for self-defense and still prevent people from capping guys waving a knife from a block away.
Some states have pretty good self-defence laws, others hang you out to dry. It would be nice if they applied the same standards to cops. It's pretty shitty how if you cap someone who's attacking you they will argue that you should have shot them in the leg. But three cops can put 50 rounds in an unarmed man and they aren't even convicted of recklessness.
-FF
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 15,467
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: self defense [Re: fastfred]
#8354270 - 05/02/08 03:45 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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> It would be nice if they applied the same standards to cops.
*laugh* yeah right... cops being held to the same standards as everyday citizens... as if that will ever happen. I agree, it would be nice... but I think I have a better chance of winning the lottery ten times in a row.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 5,998
Loc: Americas
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Re: self defense [Re: Seuss]
#8355049 - 05/02/08 06:54 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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yep.
First day after a cop shoots a kid, the union says "we must remember cops have a hard job, very hard" yet when a citizen shoots someone attacking them, its "why didn't you shoot them in the foot?"
And when a citizen wants a gun, its criticized as "you don't have all the training of law enforcement officers" yet when those highly trained officers shoot someone holding a wallett while in plain clothes, its " we have a hard job". How come the "highly trained" group is helled to a lesser standard? I think they should both be held to the same standard, reasonableness of the response and perception of fear.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 15,467
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: self defense [Re: johnm214]
#8356738 - 05/03/08 04:24 AM (4 months, 1 day ago) |
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> I think they should both be held to the same standard
... and when somebody in a position of authority and trust abuses that authority and trust for personal gain, their punishment should be x3 that of an everyday citizen. For example, a cop caught dealing drugs should get a three times longer sentence than an everyday person would get.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 90,001
Loc: S.F.I.G.E.L.
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Re: self defense [Re: fastfred]
#8362633 - 05/04/08 07:54 PM (4 months, 1 hour ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
I just remember a case where they determined that 7 feet was the reasonable threshold of being in imminent danger from someone with a knife.
15 feet is plenty of distance for me if they've got a knife drawn and they look like they have ill intent, depending at the speed someone is traveling 7 feet isnt much distance, momentum can carry them another another 12 feet easily.
Quote:
Some states have pretty good self-defence laws, others hang you out to dry. It would be nice if they applied the same standards to cops.
It's pretty shitty how if you cap someone who's attacking you they will argue that you should have shot them in the leg. But three cops can put 50 rounds in an unarmed man and they aren't even convicted of recklessness.
I think cops should be held to a higher standard and a more
scrutiny when it comes to criminal behavior, they're paid to
uphold the law they know the law and know they're breaking it,
they know the penalties are less severe for cop so they're more
more apt to be corrupt if they're criminally minded
one thing I can say about the cops down here, everyone I've ever
talked to about self defense laws has said the same thing, 'kill
them, you dont want them to testify against you in court'. Of
course it;s always from the personal perspective "I'll tell ya
what I would do if I were in that situation..."
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"you are wrong jeetered"
"themange is awesome and win and big bouncy tits"
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 90,001
Loc: S.F.I.G.E.L.
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Re: self defense [Re: Seuss]
#8362647 - 05/04/08 07:56 PM (4 months, 1 hour ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
their punishment should be x3 that of an everyday citizen.
I guess I was lenient, I only thought 2x was sufficient
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"you are wrong jeetered"
"themange is awesome and win and big bouncy tits"
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spock1
Stranger
Registered: 04/14/07
Posts: 589
Last seen: 2 months, 15 days
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Re: self defense *DELETED* [Re: Prisoner#1]
#8378900 - 05/08/08 07:03 PM (3 months, 27 days ago) |
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Post deleted by spock1Reason for deletion: .
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damienmv920
Stranger
Registered: 04/15/07
Posts: 85
Last seen: 1 day, 13 hours
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Re: self defense [Re: spock1]
#8386043 - 05/10/08 04:37 PM (3 months, 25 days ago) |
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gonna make this short and sweet.
1. Martial arts - learn em
2. Gun - get 1
3. Knife - get 1
4. Pepper spray - get 1
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bluelazerbolts
Stranger
Registered: 06/03/08
Posts: 35
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 10 days, 18 hours
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Quote:
... and when somebody in a position of authority and trust abuses that authority and trust for personal gain, their punishment should be x3 that of an everyday citizen. For example, a cop caught dealing drugs should get a three times longer sentence than an everyday person would get.
That would be nice. Instead we'll just have to settle with having them beaten and stabbed by all the pissed off gang members in the prisons.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 90,001
Loc: S.F.I.G.E.L.
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if they went to normal prisons that would be great but they dont just for that reason
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"you are wrong jeetered"
"themange is awesome and win and big bouncy tits"
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