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 Grapefruit
Stranger
Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 717
Last seen: 4 hours, 40 minutes
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 Existence....
#8381602 - 05/09/08 12:07 PM (7 months, 27 days ago) |
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No religion or science seems able to explain this.
Physics is fundamentally flawed because there is matter here meaning matter CAN be created.
Spirituality and religion are fundamentally flawed too. God created the world and universe, right? And you are god, etc. So if your all knowing n' stuff can one of you enlightened ones please explain how you (god) came to be?
The Egoless consider their Egoless to be as much a truth as the ones with Egos do consider their Ego's to be real. Neither of you can disprove the other. Neither of you is right. Who knows what is an illusion and what isn't? Such is the point and definition of an illusion.
Fact is at the end of the day none of you know what the hells going on. I sure as hell don't either. Sure is cool though. 
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http://www.last.fm/music/Venetian+Snares/_/K%C3%A9tsark%C3%BA+Mozgalom
Venetian Snares - Ketsarku Mozgalom (Bipolar movement)
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TheCow
Registered: 10/28/02
Posts: 4,637
Last seen: 6 months, 4 hours
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your mom is fundamentally flawed
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Grapefruit
Stranger
Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 717
Last seen: 4 hours, 40 minutes
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 Re: Existence.... [Re: TheCow]
#8381634 - 05/09/08 12:12 PM (7 months, 27 days ago) |
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Exactly my point.
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http://www.last.fm/music/Venetian+Snares/_/K%C3%A9tsark%C3%BA+Mozgalom
Venetian Snares - Ketsarku Mozgalom (Bipolar movement)
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
 
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 14,292
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
Last seen: 13 minutes, 10 seconds
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The Egoless consider their Egoless to be as much a truth as the ones with Egos do consider their Ego's to be real. Neither of you can disprove the other.
That's ok. 'Proof' is just a piece of information that gives an individual unwavering confidence in a particular explanation. It isn't any kind of finish line.
Neither of you is right.
What does 'right' mean? That you can produce a peer-reviewed study that agrees with your opinion? 'Right' means it makes sense to you, that's all.
Who knows what is an illusion and what isn't?
Nobody. We have to live with that. Don't let it make you antsy.
Fact is at the end of the day none of you know what the hells going on. I sure as hell don't either. Sure is cool though.
For sure 
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-oOo-
"My children," said an old man to his boys scared by a figure in the dark entry, "my children, you will never see any thing worse than yourselves." As in dreams, so in the scarcely less fluid events of the world, every man sees himself as colossal, without knowing that it is himself. The good, compared to the evil which he sees, is as his own good to his own evil.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Spiritual Laws"
-oOo-
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Grapefruit
Stranger
Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 717
Last seen: 4 hours, 40 minutes
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What does 'right' mean? That you can produce a peer-reviewed study that agrees with your opinion? 'Right' means it makes sense to you, that's all. True, fair point. You get the gist though,what i should've said is no one knows, some "Enlightened people on here talk as if they "know".
ouldn't you prove enlightenment by getting two people to trip in two different areasand seeing if they have the same thoughts and emotions running through their trip? Like when you trip in the same area?
Not that i properly understand enlightenment.
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http://www.last.fm/music/Venetian+Snares/_/K%C3%A9tsark%C3%BA+Mozgalom
Venetian Snares - Ketsarku Mozgalom (Bipolar movement)
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 14,292
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
Last seen: 13 minutes, 10 seconds
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Quote:
You get the gist though,what i should've said is no one knows, some "Enlightened people on here talk as if they "know".
That's your inference. Who here describes themselves as enlightened?
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-oOo-
"My children," said an old man to his boys scared by a figure in the dark entry, "my children, you will never see any thing worse than yourselves." As in dreams, so in the scarcely less fluid events of the world, every man sees himself as colossal, without knowing that it is himself. The good, compared to the evil which he sees, is as his own good to his own evil.
~ R.W. Emerson, "Spiritual Laws"
-oOo-
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Chronic777
Empty Awareness
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 3,757
Loc: The Unmoving Core
Last seen: 1 day, 5 hours
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THERE ARE NO WORDS THAT CAN EXPLAIN IT< YOU CAN BECOME IT BUT YOU CAN NOT EXPLAIN IT
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Knowing yourself is to know the infinite Awareness that is seeing from the core of all beings
In an attempt to see itself infinite Awareness creates endlessly
It sees all creations but remains unseen
The consciousness "I" is its first reflection
Even the power to see is seen within itself
Naturally seeing flows outwards, focusing on the seen & interpreting nature
If the seeing stops flowing out & sees inwardly, to observe the nature of Self
the hypnotic cycles of identification are destroyed & liberation is attained
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Grapefruit
Stranger
Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 717
Last seen: 4 hours, 40 minutes
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I said "some". Just reading some of the age old posts and stuff about enlightenment, i didn't read their names. Only trying to gain a further understanding of some of these concepts (or the concept of having no concepts) myself, mostly because im interested.
And to chronic i get that part and im not discounting your theory but you seem so certain, isn't that a bit blind in itself?
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http://www.last.fm/music/Venetian+Snares/_/K%C3%A9tsark%C3%BA+Mozgalom
Venetian Snares - Ketsarku Mozgalom (Bipolar movement)
Edited by Grapefruit (05/09/08 01:08 PM)
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 deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 7,382
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If you're looking for a fundamental truth that you can prove, good luck. The whole point of philosophical discussion is that there is no "right" or "wrong" answer--instead, there is merely speculation and whoever can gather enough convincing rhetoric to back their speculation up.
About the only thing you can truly be certain of is the fact that you exist, and even then it's somewhat questionable. :P
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ChiefGreenLeaf
Cherriest of All Humans
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 772
Loc: Pineal Gland
Last seen: 17 minutes, 23 seconds
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Quote:
Grapefruit said:
Physics is fundamentally flawed because there is matter here meaning matter CAN be created
Its energy that is conserved. Might I suggest going to the library and reading a bit about cosmology
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ABSENCE OF EVIDNCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"the fact has not created in me
a sense of obligation."
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backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,590
Last seen: 5 months, 9 days
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'So if your all knowing n' stuff can one of you enlightened ones please explain how you (god) came to be?'
Lightning. Bzzzt. 
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 Compass
Ancient Light
Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 896
Loc: The Border of Reality
Last seen: 8 minutes, 26 seconds
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I came to believe that reality is an infinite series of paradoxes on the rational side. Such that it makes the search for knowledge (Self-discovery) perpetual.
The only thing for sure is the moment and most people don't even try for that. We exist because we want to exist, the will of life (power of creation) underlies everything.
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JoseLibrado
return
Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
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Re: Existence.... [Re: Compass]
#8383322 - 05/09/08 09:31 PM (7 months, 27 days ago) |
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"Fact is at the end of the day none of you know what the hells going on. I sure as hell don't either. Sure is cool though."
When you wholy believe that no one of us, including you, have a proper understanding about what is going on, then there is one major problem and thus redirection that this conclusion takes.
Why is it that you undertstand that something can be going on and is but we cant understand. Ie. When i say "I dont know if something is going on" I assume that something can go on to begin with. This is surely an understanding.....understand?
More simply - if you understand that you do not understand what is going on, then it is obvious you understand something....Its like saying "I dont know anything" Its redundant, you know that you dont know anything, and thus you know something.
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The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.
And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.
Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.
Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 7,382
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"I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing."
--Socrates
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 3,697
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 6 hours, 38 minutes
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Grapefruit said:
No religion or science seems able to explain this. Oh this should be good.
Physics is fundamentally flawed because there is matter here meaning matter CAN be created. I'm sure the world's physicists will be very unhappy when they hear that you've discovered the fundamental flaw in their science. Oh wait, they won't be, because matter creation isn't a flaw at all. Funny that.
Spirituality and religion are fundamentally flawed too. God created the world and universe, right? People who believe in Creationism say that, yes.
And you are god, etc. So if your all knowing n' stuff can one of you enlightened ones please explain how you (god) came to be? I love that "etc". What a wonderful way to summarise enormous spiritual debates. But I digress... your problem here is you assume that people who believe in Creationism also believe the self-as-God idea. Hint: they don't.
The Egoless consider their Egoless to be as much a truth as the ones with Egos do consider their Ego's to be real. Neither of you can disprove the other. Neither of you is right. Who knows what is an illusion and what isn't? Such is the point and definition of an illusion. Um... indeed.
Fact is at the end of the day none of you know what the hells going on. I sure as hell don't either. Here's my main problem with this post. Saying things like that is both a) a good way to end a conversation prematurely, and b) far too dismissive of hundreds of years of philosophy and science.
The fact is that a good many people have an idea of "what the hell's going on".
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Wave upon wave of demented avengers
Marched cheerfully out of obscurity into the dream
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Chronic777
Empty Awareness
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 3,757
Loc: The Unmoving Core
Last seen: 1 day, 5 hours
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Quote:
Grapefruit said:
I said "some". Just reading some of the age old posts and stuff about enlightenment, i didn't read their names. Only trying to gain a further understanding of some of these concepts (or the concept of having no concepts) myself, mostly because im interested.
And to chronic i get that part and im not discounting your theory but you seem so certain, isn't that a bit blind in itself?
There is nothing i am certain of apart from emptiness, impermanence, every "thing" comes & goes, all that remains eternal is absolutely nothing, emptiness.
Remaining as this nothingness leads to awakening & is amazingly fantastically simple, all it takes is courage to be empty. Courage to consciously die, to be supportless, completely unattached & free with no boundaries.
The deepest thing you can understand with the mind is that all & nothing are the same. So to become one with the all you have to become nothing, empty.
Simply throw everything away, all beliefs, concepts, identification, and stay as what remains, just stay there and see what happens.
--------------------
Knowing yourself is to know the infinite Awareness that is seeing from the core of all beings
In an attempt to see itself infinite Awareness creates endlessly
It sees all creations but remains unseen
The consciousness "I" is its first reflection
Even the power to see is seen within itself
Naturally seeing flows outwards, focusing on the seen & interpreting nature
If the seeing stops flowing out & sees inwardly, to observe the nature of Self
the hypnotic cycles of identification are destroyed & liberation is attained
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OrgoneConclusion
A tourney
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 8,842
Loc: On the court
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Re: Existence.... [Re: zouden]
#8384802 - 05/10/08 10:18 AM (7 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
The fact is that a good many people have an idea of "what the hell's going on".
And are these people well-educated, rational, and capable of applying logic and discernment
or
Do they watch New Age movies that throw around the term quantum, read "Chariots of the Gods" and anything by Deepsix Chopra, visit 'free energy' and UFO websites and accept it as fact?
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EQUINE CADAVER THUMPING SINCE 1998
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 24,231
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
Grapefruit said:
No religion or science seems able to explain this.
Physics is fundamentally flawed because there is matter here meaning matter CAN be created.
Spirituality and religion are fundamentally flawed too. God created the world and universe, right? And you are god, etc. So if your all knowing n' stuff can one of you enlightened ones please explain how you (god) came to be?
The Egoless consider their Egoless to be as much a truth as the ones with Egos do consider their Ego's to be real. Neither of you can disprove the other. Neither of you is right. Who knows what is an illusion and what isn't? Such is the point and definition of an illusion.
Fact is at the end of the day none of you know what the hells going on. I sure as hell don't either. Sure is cool though.
Existentialists know this.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” ~Stephen Roberts
Edited by Icelander (05/10/08 01:14 PM)
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 1,390
Last seen: 1 hour, 29 minutes
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Quote:
Grapefruit said:
I said "some". Just reading some of the age old posts and stuff about enlightenment, i didn't read their names. Only trying to gain a further understanding of some of these concepts (or the concept of having no concepts) myself, mostly because im interested.
And to chronic i get that part and im not discounting your theory but you seem so certain, isn't that a bit blind in itself?
There is nothing i am certain of apart from emptiness, impermanence, every "thing" comes & goes, all that remains eternal is absolutely nothing, emptiness.
Remaining as this nothingness leads to awakening & is amazingly fantastically simple, all it takes is courage to be empty. Courage to consciously die, to be supportless, completely unattached & free with no boundaries.
The deepest thing you can understand with the mind is that all & nothing are the same. So to become one with the all you have to become nothing, empty.
Simply throw everything away, all beliefs, concepts, identification, and stay as what remains, just stay there and see what happens.
If everything is nothingness then aren't we all awakened already? No matter what facet of life you focus on, it is still an aspect of the same fabric of reality. Focusing on building your ego is no less enlightened than shaving your head and living on a mountain. They're both different views of the same thing.
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OrgoneConclusion
A tourney
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 8,842
Loc: On the court
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Does going bald 'count' as much as shaving your head?
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EQUINE CADAVER THUMPING SINCE 1998
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