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 Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 817
Last seen: 10 hours, 50 minutes
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 Oneness vs Skeptics
#8374820 - 05/07/08 08:26 PM (5 months, 2 days ago) |
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I've been lurking in the Shroomery for a while and decided to finally jump in at my own peril. I've noticed that the resident skeptics of P&S tend to immediately shoot down any posts mentioning "oneness". I ask you, doesn't oneness make a lot of sense in a scientific context?
If my sense of self is just a construct in the brain, then everything I experience is actually being experienced by the universe. The only other possibility I see is that we are all actually cosmic individuals, aka souls, which isn't supported by modern science.
I'm not saying the universe has a personality which is split into all these different manifestations of the cosmic self which is playing hide-and-seek with itself for some unknown purpose...even to itself...and the light of Jesus shines on from the pleiades.
I'm saying that awareness and consciousness are properties of the universe itself, which bubble up and take form in human and other organisms.
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 OrgoneConclusion
Snake Killer
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: In Battle
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Quote:
I ask you, doesn't oneness make a lot of sense in a scientific context?
Do you know what science is? If you do not, then study up and come back. If you do, then outline what EXACTLY your theory of oneness is and how you propose to test it; otherwise it has nothing to do with science. Comprende?
The resident skeptics here object to vague, undefined, baseless ramblings. When they gel and take on form, then you have our attention.
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Thesaurus: a reference book that gives alternate names for dinosaurs.
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 817
Last seen: 10 hours, 50 minutes
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
I ask you, doesn't oneness make a lot of sense in a scientific context?
Do you know what science is? If you do not, then study up and come back. If you do, then outline what EXACTLY your theory of oneness is and how you propose to test it; otherwise it has nothing to do with science. Comprende?
The resident skeptics here object to vague, undefined, baseless ramblings. When they gel and take on form, then you have our attention.
Ok, you've got me there...I guess I should be more careful throwing the word science around. I think my point still stands, though no, I can't personally test it.
I assume we all have experiences. Experience implies that there is someone experiencing. This awareness seems to reside in the brain, which is a construct of the universe. The only other possibility I can see is that we are indeed souls, and that is where the awareness comes from.
I'm no scientist to be sure...but I hope what I'm saying here at least makes some sense. Please, shoot me down. I'd rather be wrong than be stagnant in my beliefs.
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MokshaIs
everywhereeverpresent
Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 387
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
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alot of quantum physics dandiness points to oneness. no separation of the electrons...ah, all is goosE
"A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest... a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
Einstein
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in all of Infinite
there is but One
and it is nOne
ever and always
in every and all ways
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OrgoneConclusion
Snake Killer
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: In Battle
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Quote:
This awareness seems to reside in the brain, which is a construct of the universe.
What is this supposed to mean? Should we all speak in poetic riddles then expect others to understand? A galaxy a billion light years away had nothing to do with the construction of your brain despite the possible same point of origin.
To those who believe we are all one, send me your money, drugs, fast car and hot girlfriend. You would not deny yourself, would you?
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Thesaurus: a reference book that gives alternate names for dinosaurs.
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 817
Last seen: 10 hours, 50 minutes
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
This awareness seems to reside in the brain, which is a construct of the universe.
What is this supposed to mean? Should we all speak in poetic riddles then expect others to understand? A galaxy a billion light years away had nothing to do with the construction of your brain despite the possible same point of origin.
To those who believe we are all one, send me your money, drugs, fast car and hot girlfriend. You would not deny yourself, would you?
What I mean is, your brain is just one collection of matter in the closed system of the universe. What belongs to your brain also belongs to the universe, including awareness.
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MokshaIs
everywhereeverpresent
Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 387
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
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belief is not necessary... in fact, it could very well obscure the Truth of the notion.
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in all of Infinite
there is but One
and it is nOne
ever and always
in every and all ways
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OrgoneConclusion
Snake Killer
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: In Battle
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Quote:
What belongs to your brain also belongs to the universe, including awareness.
That clarifies absolutely nothing. So all your stuff belongs to me, correct?
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Thesaurus: a reference book that gives alternate names for dinosaurs.
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WhiskeyClone
Not here
 
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 12,993
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Ca...
Last seen: 1 hour, 33 minutes
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said:
What I mean is, your brain is just one collection of matter in the closed system of the universe. What belongs to your brain also belongs to the universe, including awareness.
Yes, the universe in that context is a closed system. A black box.
Scientific understanding of oneness might not be possible, because the word science implies empirical testing.
Unfortunately many people will not budge on their opinion of the universe until you pull up some chart that proves otherwise. We can't possibly have anything close to a complete understanding of the universe, and a large portion of its nature is not ever going to be testable by our limited homo sapien minds and technologies. For this reason there is great value in pondering conjecture, in entertaining principles that are apparent, but as yet untestable. But we're arrogant and love to come to conclusions too much, especially when we think our conclusion is better than someone else's conclusion. We love our opinions dearly, and desire badly to promote them to the status of 'knowledge' with scientific tests, because they then we feel like we own something.
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OrgoneConclusion
Snake Killer
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: In Battle
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It has nothing to do with a reluctance to discuss conjecture or entertain unusual ideas.
However, it is impossible to have a fruitful discussion concerning things that are so nebulous as to have no meaning. As many times as I ask in these 'we are all one' discussions what the poster means, no real clarification is EVER presented. Usually another layer of gibberish is added to the first layer as if that is helpful.
We might as well discuss whether or not snarglenorts actually ziggle when exposed to framish rays.
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Thesaurus: a reference book that gives alternate names for dinosaurs.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,110
Last seen: 8 days, 14 hours
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
We might as well discuss whether or not snarglenorts actually ziggle when exposed to framish rays.
Of course they do. Duh!
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PhanTomCat
Wildcat that Never Was....
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,539
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
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Quote:
Oweyervishice said:
I've noticed that the resident skeptics of P&S tend to immediately shoot down any posts mentioning "oneness". I ask you, doesn't oneness make a lot of sense in a scientific context?
If we go by the popular scientific notion that we all came from a singularity that built in complexity into the intricately woven maze of "reality" that it is now,
then I don't see how one could deny that fundamentally, we are all pieces of the "one"....all the way down to the core........
>^;;^<
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"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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OrgoneConclusion
Snake Killer
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: In Battle
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 Re: Oneness vs Skeptics [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8375599 - 05/07/08 11:38 PM (5 months, 2 days ago) |
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So I can have all of your stuff, right?
People that believe everything is all one can even eat deadly poison and remain unaffected because it is no different than their own bodies.
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Thesaurus: a reference book that gives alternate names for dinosaurs.
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Rahz
Spore Viewer
Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 1,951
Last seen: 2 hours, 46 minutes
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Re: Oneness vs Skeptics [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8375609 - 05/07/08 11:40 PM (5 months, 2 days ago) |
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Oneness is shared experience, shared origin, shared DNA, shared nervous system, shared capacity for love and hate. The illusion of difference comes from variations in environment over time. Atoms that react in predictable ways become us, yet if we are not identical in all ways, there is the illusion of separation. We all aspire, yet our ways and means are different.
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rahz
comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace
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OrgoneConclusion
Snake Killer
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: In Battle
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Re: Oneness vs Skeptics [Re: Rahz]
#8375637 - 05/07/08 11:44 PM (5 months, 2 days ago) |
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So I may have all of your stuff then because you do not ascribe to this illusion?
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Thesaurus: a reference book that gives alternate names for dinosaurs.
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 817
Last seen: 10 hours, 50 minutes
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Re: Oneness vs Skeptics [Re: PhanTomCat]
#8375646 - 05/07/08 11:45 PM (5 months, 2 days ago) |
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I don't know how to word this any more clearly than I have, really. Awareness implies an entity that is aware. Either this awareness is a function of the brain, which in turn is part of the universal whole, or we are all little balls of awareness living in human form.
I'm not trying to prove or push a point. I'm trying to further my own understanding of our world. Please, what other possibilities are there for the origin of awareness?
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OrgoneConclusion
Snake Killer
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: In Battle
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Quote:
Awareness implies an entity that is aware.
And redness implies an object that is red.
Now we are making serious progress. 
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Thesaurus: a reference book that gives alternate names for dinosaurs.
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DimensionX
Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 1,338
Last seen: 4 hours, 29 minutes
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Its just different ways of perceiving something.
You can use a car as a metaphor. You can see it as separate pieces, as in a gear box, motor, wheels etc. Or you could see it as a whole, as in one car.
Edited by DimensionX (05/07/08 11:59 PM)
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Oweyervishice
Overshoes
Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 817
Last seen: 10 hours, 50 minutes
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
Awareness implies an entity that is aware.
And redness implies an object that is red.
Now we are making serious progress.
Yes indeed, but what is redness without someone to perceive it?
Awareness is special because all other qualia reside within it. Who or what is aware of red?
You assure me that we are separate, but would you admit that you have a soul? What is it that makes you separate from the rest of existence?
If we did some freaky surgery and extended your nerves into a chair, you wouldn't much like it if I sat on the chair. Is the chair then part of "you"?
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OrgoneConclusion
Snake Killer
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: In Battle
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Re: Oneness vs Skeptics [Re: DimensionX]
#8375750 - 05/08/08 12:03 AM (5 months, 2 days ago) |
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There is nothing cosmic about the concept of sets and subsets; these are mere mental groupings and point to no underlying unifying strata.
I predict that 5 pages later we will have made no advancements on this subject nor will any one offer to give me all their stuff. 
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Thesaurus: a reference book that gives alternate names for dinosaurs.
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