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 zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 11,421
Last seen: 2 hours, 52 minutes
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
Opposed to repealing it. As you know.
When it comes to the "hard" drugs, I'll agree... but I wouldn't be too sure that a solid majority in the U.S. support cannabis prohibition (recreational use)...& certainly not a ban on its medicinal use... & especially not the ban on industrial hemp.
You made no specification about what drug and you may or may not be right about reefer. I don't care. It's a wimpy drug for wimpy people.
I would go much much further than you. I think you should have the right to destroy yourself in any way you see fit. And when you do, you become fertilizer, because you did it to yourself. There should be zero drug prohibition.
Tourist;
You can grab your ankles for any group of assholes with a grievance or a lust for power but I'm glad there are some men left in the world to thwart them. I have zero desire to martyr myself making molotov cocktails to kill the Sharia council ruling America. I hope you never have to endure the buggery of that which you would allow through your manifest pussification.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
Edited by zappaisgod (05/06/08 02:27 PM)
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 EntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 2,235
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 Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8369092 - 05/06/08 02:32 PM (4 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
I think you should have the right to destroy yourself in any way you see fit. And when you do, you become fertilizer, because you did it to yourself.
I've long had that opportunity (you know, prohibition doesn't actually work to prevent availability), but I haven't done that (destroyed myself). A repeal of prohibition would do nothing to affect my health one way or the other.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 11,421
Last seen: 2 hours, 52 minutes
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I wasn't referring to you specifically. I suspect that you specifically aren't that stupid. But if you are I don't think that should impact anyone else's right to risky behavior. I am also quite adamant that if you choose to hang yourself I have no obligation to cut the rope.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 2,235
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8369197 - 05/06/08 02:53 PM (4 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
I am also quite adamant that if you choose to hang yourself I have no obligation to cut the rope.
We agree here.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 11,421
Last seen: 2 hours, 52 minutes
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
I am also quite adamant that if you choose to hang yourself I have no obligation to cut the rope.
We agree here.
Historic.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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The Tourist
Stranger
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8369434 - 05/06/08 03:50 PM (4 months, 29 days ago) |
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I've got no problem with thwarting people who lust for power, violence, oppression, etc. This is what democracy is for.
Sadly, the part you don't seem to understand is that people like Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld and the rest of the "real men" on capitol hill fall into this category.
When someone with "balls" removes someone from power, he and his manhood will usually move in to fill the absence. There's this concept known as "hypocracy" that many people don't seem to grasp.
Guess what... Supporters of a lot of anti-American terrorism probably view themselves and their compatriots as being "real men" because they are trying to thwart overused and, they'd claim, unjustified U.S. power. This power, naturally, represents manliness and strength to people like you, yet it promotes opposition to itself by its very nature. As long as we continue down this same path of military strength and big balls, it'll just be one big never-ending promotion of the very things we want least.
If we wanted to effectively fight terrorism and anti-U.S. sentiment, we'd stop unilaterally killing people on a regular basis, using imperialistic economics, and building militay bases and deploying troops in every fucking country in the world, and we'd instead promote democracy. REAL democracy, not some U.S. implemented, non-populist, oligarchy. And we especially wouldn't simply leave it at ruling and/or policing throught the barrel of a gun. Or the even manlier use of stealth bombers and long-range missiles.
I'm sorry you are consumed by this predetermined, culturally defined concept of manliness. I think you should try wrestling, or yelling at people you don't like, or punching stuff for a few hours before you think about international relations.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 11,421
Last seen: 2 hours, 52 minutes
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: The Tourist]
#8369795 - 05/06/08 05:19 PM (4 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Tourist said:
I've got no problem with thwarting people who lust for power, violence, oppression, etc. This is what democracy is for.
Sadly, the part you don't seem to understand is that people like Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld and the rest of the "real men" on capitol hill fall into this category.
What is Rumsfeld doing right now? What do you think Cheney will be doing when he is out of office? These guys sacrificed riches to do what they did.Quote:
When someone with "balls" removes someone from power, he and his manhood will usually move in to fill the absence. There's this concept known as "hypocracy" that many people don't seem to grasp.
Spell check is your friend as is a general study of comprehensionQuote:
Guess what... Supporters of a lot of anti-American terrorism probably view themselves and their compatriots as being "real men" because they are trying to thwart overused and, they'd claim, unjustified U.S. power. This power, naturally, represents manliness and strength to people like you, yet it promotes opposition to itself by its very nature. As long as we continue down this same path of military strength and big balls, it'll just be one big never-ending promotion of the very things we want least.
Yes, they probably do believe that keeping women in thrall and murdering those who have other religions to be manly. The question before us today is what do YOU believe?Quote:
If we wanted to effectively fight terrorism and anti-U.S. sentiment, we'd stop unilaterally killing people on a regular basis, using imperialistic economics, and building militay bases and deploying troops in every fucking country in the world, and we'd instead promote democracy. REAL democracy, not some U.S. implemented, non-populist, oligarchy. And we especially wouldn't simply leave it at ruling and/or policing throught the barrel of a gun. Or the even manlier use of stealth bombers and long-range missiles.
Really a whole pile of just stupid, stupid nonsense that has been sliced, diced and dissected here repeatedly. EVERYTHING ANY GOVERNMENT DOES IT DOES AT THE POINT OF A GUN.Quote:
I'm sorry you are consumed by this predetermined, culturally defined concept of manliness. I think you should try wrestling, or yelling at people you don't like, or punching stuff for a few hours before you think about international relations.
Wrestling is way cool.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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The Tourist
Stranger
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8371019 - 05/06/08 09:41 PM (4 months, 29 days ago) |
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Thanks for responding selectively to my points and using ad hoc judgements wuth no explanations. And I'm sorry that I spelled hypocrisy incorrectly.
As for me needing to study comprehension, uhhh, explain please.
Same goes for my pile of stupid, stupid nonsense. Could you tell me why, exactly, it is a stupid, stupid pile of nonsense? Because you disagree? If so, you're wasting both of our time with your garbage. The fact that you're a self-proclaimed horrid asshole almost makes me more frustrated.
Saying Muslims kill peope who believe in other religions is pretty much exactly the same thing as someone in the 60's saying that Christians kill people with dark skin. Someone should have stopped the spread of Christianity, huh?
Would another country that didn't partake in slavery becoming violently aggressive towards the people of the American South in objection to slavery be justifiable, in your opinion?
If you're still wondering what I believe, are you small-minded enough to think that because I dont want to kill, occupy, or militarily suppress foreign fundamentalist Muslims or their countries, I must not care that some of them stone women, kill infidels, etc.? Of course I don't fucking believe in what they believe in, but does that give me a right to kill them? Because I'm about 99% sure that I'd be doing the thing that I was critical of in the first place. If you still think I need to work on my "comprehension" in this case, then I don't know what to tell you.
Is everything a government does really at the point of a gun? Really? I guess I've had my eyes closed for my whole life.
And if you're wondering what Rumsfeld and Cheney are doing right now, well, Cheney is getting rich, and I suspect Rumsfeld isn't yet tired of the rush he gets through fulfilling his testosterone-induced desires. This is beside the point, however. My main problem is with the ideology that they ascribe to in the American peoples' name, and, regardless of personal gain, the way they feel the world must work. They want to contribute to the destructive, dehumanizing, conflict-p[erpetuating system and way of doing things that I disagree with on the grounds of bad logic. That's all.
Feel free to dismiss my reference to "logic" on the grounds that my explanation of it was a pile of stupid, stupid nonsense. Either way, I appreciate the sound criticism you've given it.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 21,641
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8373839 - 05/07/08 04:36 PM (4 months, 28 days ago) |
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. EVERYTHING ANY GOVERNMENT DOES IT DOES AT THE POINT OF A GUN.
Yer right Zap, it ain't just the old stars and stripes.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
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The Tourist
Stranger
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: Icelander]
#8375212 - 05/07/08 10:04 PM (4 months, 28 days ago) |
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Could you guys explain how every action the government partakes in is through violence or the threat of it?
And Zappa, even if this is true, does that mean this is the way it should be or has to be?
In medieval times, if someone states that every form of dissent is punishable by the leaders, would this fact be any kind of relevant opposition to someone else's argument that it shouldn't be so?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 11,421
Last seen: 2 hours, 52 minutes
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: The Tourist]
#8377933 - 05/08/08 02:51 PM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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Every time a government passes a law compliance is required under threat of incarceration or a fine. If you do not comply you will be compelled to comply by men wearing guns. It is thus and it has always been thus. It is true for every government since the invention of guns. Before that it was the sword and before that it was the threat of the fist or whatever. Poli sci 101.
When the government extends largesse to someone it is at another person's expense. Wealth redistribution at the point of a gun.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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The Tourist
Stranger
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8379926 - 05/08/08 10:41 PM (4 months, 27 days ago) |
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True, non-Fox-News socialism simply means workers taking over the economy. Just as the masses rise up against a dictator to create political democracy, the workers will rise up against the fat cats who hold centralized power over the economy and create economic democracy.
The systems are separate in this case, and it will be the unions and groups of working masses who democratically decide who gets what, rather than the government.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 11,421
Last seen: 2 hours, 52 minutes
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: The Tourist]
#8380824 - 05/09/08 05:19 AM (4 months, 26 days ago) |
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Meet the new thugs, same as the old thugs.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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The Tourist
Stranger
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8382346 - 05/09/08 04:23 PM (4 months, 26 days ago) |
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If 200+ million people are all thugs, so be it.
At least all the thugs get a say, not just a few thousand.
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The Tourist
Stranger
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: The Tourist]
#8382366 - 05/09/08 04:31 PM (4 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Tourist said:
As for me needing to study comprehension, uhhh, explain please.
Same goes for my pile of stupid, stupid nonsense. Could you tell me why, exactly, it is a stupid, stupid pile of nonsense?
Saying Muslims kill peope who believe in other religions is pretty much exactly the same thing as someone in the 60's saying that Christians kill people with dark skin. Someone should have stopped the spread of Christianity, huh?
Would another country that didn't partake in slavery becoming violently aggressive towards the people of the American South in objection to slavery be justifiable, in your opinion?
If you're still wondering what I believe, are you small-minded enough to think that because I dont want to kill, occupy, or militarily suppress foreign fundamentalist Muslims or their countries, I must not care that some of them stone women, kill infidels, etc.? Of course I don't fucking believe in what they believe in, but does that give me a right to kill them? Because I'm about 99% sure that I'd be doing the thing that I was critical of in the first place. If you still think I need to work on my "comprehension" in this case, then I don't know what to tell you.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 11,421
Last seen: 2 hours, 52 minutes
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: The Tourist]
#8382752 - 05/09/08 06:32 PM (4 months, 26 days ago) |
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Quote:
The Tourist said:
If 200+ million people are all thugs, so be it.
At least all the thugs get a say, not just a few thousand.
Not a possible condition. Any government at all confers special power on some members. Else it is not a government. Government demands a power elite. It is a sine qua non feature.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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The Tourist
Stranger
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8387778 - 05/11/08 12:41 AM (4 months, 24 days ago) |
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Anarchist syndicialism is the way to go then.
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 12,035
Loc: Some Refugee Camp near Ch...
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: The Tourist]
#8387824 - 05/11/08 12:54 AM (4 months, 24 days ago) |
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I always proffered a monarchy.
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Bigswang's oakridge discovery has helped us all.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 11,421
Last seen: 2 hours, 52 minutes
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
#8388282 - 05/11/08 07:34 AM (4 months, 24 days ago) |
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Quite possibly the best system is that with a benign dictator. Of course, such a creature is not found in nature and would have to be constructed. Paging Dr Frankenstein. You're needed in the operating room.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
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Loc: Some Refugee Camp near Ch...
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8389162 - 05/11/08 01:40 PM (4 months, 24 days ago) |
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I admit i always was a old fashioned technocrat.
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Bigswang's oakridge discovery has helped us all.
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