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 gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
 
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,114
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 24 days, 7 hours
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 Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: Phred]
#8363201 - 05/04/08 10:03 PM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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Bad speech. It sounds like it was written by Eric Cartman if he were 40 years older. Two thumbs down 
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 20,972
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: Phred]
#8363206 - 05/04/08 10:04 PM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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I quit worshiping.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
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The Tourist
Stranger
Registered: 04/10/08
Posts: 124
Last seen: 1 month, 5 days
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: gluke bastid]
#8363230 - 05/04/08 10:11 PM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
gluke bastid said:
It sounds like it was written by Eric Cartman if he were 40 years older.
Perfect description. Two thumbs up.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 5,996
Loc: Americas
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: The Tourist]
#8363332 - 05/04/08 10:43 PM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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I liked it, I don't get why everyone doesn't 
Maybe its too capitalist for some of the folks here
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 5,267
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 1 hour, 52 minutes
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: gluke bastid]
#8364401 - 05/05/08 09:31 AM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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"They are piddlers upon merit, beggars at the door of accomplishment, thieves of livelihood, envy-coddling tax lice applauding themselves for giving away other people's money."
P.J. O'Rourke
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 10,957
Last seen: 53 minutes, 13 seconds
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: lonestar2004]
#8364466 - 05/05/08 10:01 AM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
"They are piddlers upon merit, beggars at the door of accomplishment, thieves of livelihood, envy-coddling tax lice applauding themselves for giving away other people's money."
P.J. O'Rourke
Ten thousand thumbs up. "Tax lice". Perfect.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 10,192
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 29 minutes, 12 seconds
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: johnm214]
#8364477 - 05/05/08 10:04 AM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
I liked it, I don't get why everyone doesn't
Libbies are infamous for their lack of a sense of humor.
Phred
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,114
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 24 days, 7 hours
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: Phred]
#8364559 - 05/05/08 10:44 AM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said:
Quote:
I liked it, I don't get why everyone doesn't
Libbies are infamous for their lack of a sense of humor.
So if you tell a joke and no one laughs, its their fault? No. You failed as a comedian, at least to understand your audience. Scalia is someone I can think of whose politics I don't agree with whatsoever who I have heard give a talk that had me on the floor with laughter. Because he understands what is humorous about politics. Ben Stein is another example. Funny and creative. This speech is not funny or creative, regardless of your political orientation. Anyway I think it is a cop out to blame the audience for not "getting it," whether it is a speech or music or whatever else.
Maybe the problem is that the only people who like partisan based humor are grumpy partisans with an agenda of bias?
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 10,957
Last seen: 53 minutes, 13 seconds
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: Phred]
#8364562 - 05/05/08 10:45 AM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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How could they possibly have time for a sense of humor when you're so busy panhandling?
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 11,684
Loc: Some Refugee Camp near Ch...
Last seen: 8 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8364563 - 05/05/08 10:46 AM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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I loved this piece, Ive got a couple PJ O' Rourke books, I just read Give War a Chance, he's a brilliant writer.
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Bigswang's oakridge discovery has helped us all.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 2,206
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: lonestar2004]
#8364582 - 05/05/08 10:54 AM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
"They are piddlers upon merit, beggars at the door of accomplishment, thieves of livelihood, envy-coddling tax lice applauding themselves for giving away other people's money."
I'm not gonna bother to look it up right now, but i believe the current administration has set spending records for the federal government. There was also that red state-blue state chart a few months ago that I don't believe anybody was able to refute showing that overall the "blue states" paid slightly more to the federal government in taxes than they received & that the red states received slightly more than they paid. Those figures were generally within 10% of the amounts paid in:received, but it was still there nonetheless.
But yes. "conservatives", continue to believe the following:
$100 to Halliburton to subcontract the construction of a new prisons needed due to the "War on Drugs"... not welfare.
$500 to countless companies to make things that are completely unnecessary to defense.
God knows how much "defense" (sic) contractors rip of & cheat the government out of (it's into the billions, though... )... not welfare.
$10 to Monsanto every year to manufacture poisons headed for the ecosystems of South America... not welfare.
$50 to police agencies to give them more gadgets & spy-tools to better fight the "War on Drugs"... not welfare.
$1 in food stamps to a single mother... WELFARE!!!
Nevermind that the latter (& those like it) are insignificant in proportion to the former.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,114
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 24 days, 7 hours
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8364586 - 05/05/08 10:56 AM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
How could they possibly have time for a sense of humor when you're so busy panhandling?
Yes, it is hard to smile, much less laugh, knowing that Phred is out there on the street begging for change
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 11,684
Loc: Some Refugee Camp near Ch...
Last seen: 8 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: lonestar2004]
#8364684 - 05/05/08 11:28 AM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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Bigswang's oakridge discovery has helped us all.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 5,996
Loc: Americas
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
But yes. "conservatives", continue to believe the following:
$100 to Halliburton to subcontract the construction of a new prisons needed due to the "War on Drugs"... not welfare.
$500 to countless companies to make things that are completely unnecessary to defense.
God knows how much "defense" (sic) contractors rip of & cheat the government out of (it's into the billions, though... )... not welfare.
$10 to Monsanto every year to manufacture poisons headed for the ecosystems of South America... not welfare.
$50 to police agencies to give them more gadgets & spy-tools to better fight the "War on Drugs"... not welfare.
$1 in food stamps to a single mother... WELFARE!!!
Nevermind that the latter (& those like it) are insignificant in proportion to the former.
This is a cool post. 
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 10,957
Last seen: 53 minutes, 13 seconds
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
"They are piddlers upon merit, beggars at the door of accomplishment, thieves of livelihood, envy-coddling tax lice applauding themselves for giving away other people's money."
I'm not gonna bother to look it up right now, but i believe the current administration has set spending records for the federal government.
Just to clarify, Congress sets spending.Quote:
There was also that red state-blue state chart a few months ago that I don't believe anybody was able to refute showing that overall the "blue states" paid slightly more to the federal government in taxes than they received & that the red states received slightly more than they paid. Those figures were generally within 10% of the amounts paid in:received, but it was still there nonetheless.
It's always amazed me as well but for exactly the opposite reason, I'm sureQuote:
But yes. "conservatives", continue to believe the following:
$100 to Halliburton to subcontract the construction of a new prisons needed due to the "War on Drugs"... not welfare.
A nanny state liberal programQuote:
$500 to countless companies to make things that are completely unnecessary to defense.
You are not qualified to make that judgmentQuote:
God knows how much "defense" (sic) contractors rip of & cheat the government out of (it's into the billions, though... )... not welfare.
Lots. It sucks. Government is incompetent. Your solution? MORE GOVERNMENT. Brilliant.Quote:
$10 to Monsanto every year to manufacture poisons headed for the ecosystems of South America... not welfare.
Huh? You mean drug war nanny statism? This Conservative has no problem with all junkies having all of the drugs necessary to destroy all of themselves. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out. You weren't that much fun anyway.Quote:
$50 to police agencies to give them more gadgets & spy-tools to better fight the "War on Drugs"... not welfare.
$1 in food stamps to a single mother... WELFARE!!!
Nevermind that the latter (& those like it) are insignificant in proportion to the former.
Entitlement program expenses far outweigh all other expenses of the federal government. Defense is piss and the drug war is a LIBERAL construct. The LIBERALS now want to control your fast food. Wake the fuck up. Social engineering is a mostly LIBERAL policy.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 10,192
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 29 minutes, 12 seconds
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Quote:
$100 to Halliburton to subcontract the construction of a new prisons needed due to the "War on Drugs"... not welfare.
Once can debate the wisdom of incarcerating people for smoking leaves or eating fungus, but one can't categorize the building of prisons as "welfare". So what on earth is the purpose of this sentence fragment?
Quote:
$500 to countless companies to make things that are completely unnecessary to defense. God knows how much "defense" (sic) contractors rip of & cheat the government out of (it's into the billions, though... )... not welfare.
What's your point? It's not welfare. If it is true that the government is bilked out of billions by dishonest companies, it would be a demonstration of fraudulent behavior on the part of some contractors. That's hardly "welfare".
Quote:
$10 to Monsanto every year to manufacture poisons headed for the ecosystems of South America... not welfare.
Are you saying the US government hands money to Monsanto and receives no goods in return? Because if you are, that is indeed welfare. But my understanding was that the US government buys goods from Monsanto. By "poisons" I presume you refer to defoliants?
Quote:
$50 to police agencies to give them more gadgets & spy-tools to better fight the "War on Drugs"... not welfare
Once can debate the wisdom of incarcerating people for smoking leaves or eating fungus, but one can't categorize the arrest of lawbreakers as "welfare". What point are you trying to make here?
Quote:
$1 in food stamps to a single mother... WELFARE!!!
This is, of course, welfare by any rational definition.
I am puzzled why you would think any of this somehow illustrates "conservatives" are the ones mischaracterizing welfare.
Phred
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 2,206
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8365408 - 05/05/08 03:21 PM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Just to clarify, Congress sets spending.
Yeah, I'm not really gonna argue since I don't believe the Democrats are any different from Republicans, but as it relates to military expenditures the requests come from various government agencies (maybe officially through the white House, I don't know) & the Congress always rubber stamps it, regardless of whether there are a few more of one party than the other (like it really matters, anyways).
Quote:
A nanny state liberal program
If you think that the strongest voices to continue these policies (especially on marijuana) come from the political left & not the right, then I've been giving you too much credit as it relates to your understating of American politics.
Quote:
You are not qualified to make that judgment
That U.S. state "interventions" around the world (Iraq, Vietnam, Kosovo, Korea, Nicaragua, Somalia, etc.) had nothing to do with preventing an attack on the U.S. is less a judgment than an understanding of history & the (economic) reasons why states go to war. In the sense that they were done for the "defense" of U.S. economic interests more than any other factor, I guess that would be correct, but not a physical defense of the homeland.
Quote:
Your solution? MORE GOVERNMENT. Brilliant.
No, & I have never said I want t to see the U.S. federal government increase in size.
Quote:
Huh? You mean drug war nanny statism?
The push for "Plan Colombia" (among other things) comes from various U.S. corporations, not left-wing politicians.
Quote:
Defense is piss and the drug war is a LIBERAL construct. The LIBERALS now want to control your fast food. Wake the fuck up. Social engineering is a mostly LIBERAL policy.
Hundreds of billions of dollars every year is not exactly 'piss'. The "War on Drugs" is only a liberal construct if right-wing moralists & U.S. corporations are 'liberal'. Controlling fast food? If so, then it is the only consistent & non-hypocritical thing to do. If one is going to insist that cannabis must remain illegal due to its health risks & costs to taxpayers resulting from health complications, then there is no way that this same person could argue, using science & reason, that trans-fat & high-fructose corn syrup should be legal.
As for social engineering... I don't think wanting a Constitutional amendment defining what 'marriage' is comes from the left, nor does wanting evolution out of the public schools, or birth control not taught & methods of it distributed liberally (no pun intended) in the schools, nor wanting RU-486 banned because a cluster of 4-32 blastomeres constitutes a living human being, nor wanting gambling/lottery to be illegal, nor wanting (some) drugs outlawed on account of that they are against God's will... I'm sure you could provide counter-examples, but even if it turns out to be 50-50, that still isn't 'mostly' like you originally said.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 2,206
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: Phred]
#8365439 - 05/05/08 03:31 PM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Once can debate the wisdom of incarcerating people for smoking leaves or eating fungus, but one can't categorize the building of prisons as "welfare". So what on earth is the purpose of this sentence fragment?
Does Halliburton build them? I don't believe so. They are given hundreds of millions of dollars to subcontract out the various parts of construction to people/companies who do, taking a nice piece of the pie for themselves; that's why I call it welfare.
Quote:
What's your point? It's not welfare. If it is true that the government is bilked out of billions by dishonest companies, it would be a demonstration of fraudulent behavior on the part of some contractors. That's hardly "welfare".
Again, I consider giving contracts to well-connected people for things that aren't necessary for "defense", given under the impression that they are, to be welfare.
Quote:
Are you saying the US government hands money to Monsanto and receives no goods in return? Because if you are, that is indeed welfare. But my understanding was that the US government buys goods from Monsanto.
No, I say it is welfare because Monsanto makes a healthy profit based on a lie that they take taxpayer dollars to perform a public service.
Quote:
By "poisons" I presume you refer to defoliants?
Yes.
Quote:
Once can debate the wisdom of incarcerating people for smoking leaves or eating fungus, but one can't categorize the arrest of lawbreakers as "welfare". What point are you trying to make here?
Again, I believe giving money (& jobs) to people based on a lie to serve one's own economic interests to be a form of welfare... corporate welfare, but welfare nonetheless.
Quote:
I am puzzled why you would think any of this somehow illustrates "conservatives" are the ones mischaracterizing welfare.
Because the definition(s) of 'welfare' isn't limited to only the things rush Limbaugh & others decry.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 10,957
Last seen: 53 minutes, 13 seconds
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I don't think you understand what I mean by social engineering. What I refer to when I say social engineering relates to tax manipulation much more than any kind of criminal law. Given that I am with you on almost every one of the things you cite regarding law, gay marriage, drug laws, abortion, evolution taught and all of that and am as conservative as you can get, it is ludicrous to ascribe those things to Conservatism. Some knucklehead conservatives want them. Some knucklehead liberals want them. There is an enormous population of knuckleheads. Too bad. What is easily and directly ascribable to the left, though, is the notion of discouraging behavior by taxing it to death. Raise taxes on cigarettes, fast food, liquor, whatever. I think they just want an excuse to raise taxes. Oh yeah, another favorite of the left: eminent domain. More social engineering.
The defense budget is near historic lows as a percentage in spite of being in a, now, police action. Entitlement programs dwarf defense expenditures.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 9,033
Loc: PNW
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Re: Fairness, idealism and other atrocities [Re: zappaisgod]
#8365460 - 05/05/08 03:41 PM (3 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
The defense budget is near historic lows as a percentage in spite of being in a, now, police action. Entitlement programs dwarf defense expenditures.
I call bullshit. A quick review of the U.S. budget shows 2008 Security Funding at $656 billion, and Non-Security Funding at $481 billion. The requested funding for 2009 is $730 billion Security, $482 billion Non-Security. How does this add up to 'entitlement' programs dwarfing defense expenditures? And these figures don't account for the military spending which is funded through supplementary programs.
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Edited by Veritas (05/05/08 03:48 PM)
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