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 Chronic777
Awareness of "I Am"
 
Registered: 05/08/04
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 Cat & Bird?
#8350050 - 05/01/08 02:32 PM (4 months, 3 days ago) |
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My cat has brought down a bird, the bird is only injured but it cant fly, the cat seems to be sniffing it and hanging around it, if the bird moves the cat attacks it, it seems playful though. If the cat wanted to kill it it wouldve done it by now.
If i bring the bird into the house it will go nuts and bounce off the walls, plus wtf do i know about birds wings to heal it?
I figured i can either bring it into the house, kill it before the cat does, or just let nature take care of it.
Im going with the 3rd option, what would you have done?
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"That in whom reside all beings and who resides in all beings, who is the giver of grace to all, the Supreme Soul of the universe, the limitless being, I Am That."
"I remember one experience where a person experienced being physically raped by psychedelic crocodiles"
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backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
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Hot wings??
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 OrgoneConclusion
Thinker
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Loc: Not gardening
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Pets adopt the morals of their owners. What does that tell you?
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OrgoneConclusion
Thinker
Registered: 04/01/07
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Loc: Not gardening
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Quote:
backfromthedead said:
Hot wings??
Play nice.
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I am not an actor, I merely play one on TV.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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That's exactly how cats kill, they get off on torture. Personally, I'd take the bird away and depending on it's condition either take it to a wildlife rehab centre or kill it myself. Cats can let thier killing drag on for excrutiatingly long periods of time, although your cat probably will eventually get the job done if you allow it.
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Meta Prime
Stranger
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Re: Cat & Bird? [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8351522 - 05/01/08 09:17 PM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Cats can't fly and birds can end of discussion.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Re: Cat & Bird? [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8352235 - 05/02/08 01:05 AM (4 months, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
That's exactly how cats kill, they get off on torture.
How do you know that?
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figmentfragment
seriousfraulicking
Registered: 04/10/07
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I have come across this scenario and similar ones, so many times with my cat. She seems to be very adept at hunting.
Late at night she will hunt for mice as well, and bring them inside through the window to her territory, So she has that extra advantage.
Her treatment of her prey seems particularly cruel to me, but I am not sure what to make of this in an objective sense.
I have had many cats in my life, as a child I was adamant that I should try and save them. But very slowly I began to realise that a lot of these mice and birds etc, were mortally wounded, and were passed the stage of being saved.
When my cat comes in with her prey, she does look to me for praise and approval (IMO). I find it very difficult to take it from her, so I normally growl or tell her firmly to "take care of it".
Obviously she does not understand my words, but my tone. She thinks I want to take it, so she tries to advance more quickly to the kill stage.
I do still try to save them sometimes. I can not seem to shake this human pretense that I must.
The other night I took a mouse from her, and put it outside. But I later found out, that the mouse died where I had left it.
It got me to wondering which is worse?
I wondered if I was fooling myself into thinking that it was a more "peaceful" death. Or if in "reality" it suffered a much longer and drawn out death. 
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"For me, the adventures of the mind, each inflection of thought, each movement, nuance, growth, discovery, is a source of exhilaration."
  
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Chronic777
Awareness of "I Am"
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Emptiness
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Well i definately could not have killed it myself, i just cant do that.
I tried to bring it inside, it freaked out bigtime & to be honest i probably did it more harm than good as it was already injured, it was gone this morning and the cats didnt seem to actually be doing anything but sniffing it, they'd only hurt is when it moved, it seemed pretty playful, in the end i just put the bird in some thick grass, chased the cats away and let nature be.
The only dilemma i've come out of this with is, should we help those who are suffering or let nature be. In some situations it really can make it worse trying to help. Ive found fully suffering to be very cleansing as it opens up your heart, not fighting it just letting it pour out.
Especially with examples of children grieving, like we can say to a child don't be sad it'll be okay ill buy you a new cat/dog/bird...when really we should let them grieve as grieving is natural, not wrong. Crying feels awesome when the tears have dried, in a way i wish i could cry, i sometimes feel i should but the tears just don't come.
I think its all about helping when you know you can, and otherwise loving kindness & compassion will have to be enough...at least i tried to help it 
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"That in whom reside all beings and who resides in all beings, who is the giver of grace to all, the Supreme Soul of the universe, the limitless being, I Am That."
"I remember one experience where a person experienced being physically raped by psychedelic crocodiles"
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
I think its all about helping when you know you can, and otherwise loving kindness & compassion will have to be enough...at least i tried to help it
I don't think that it's a really healthy attitude to help any time you know you can help. unless you want it as well. It saves you from lots of internal conflicts that are likely to happen in cases in which your desires could be oriented in a different direction than actually doing a good deed, no matter how "noble" it might look.
From personal experience I have discovered that we can do a really good job in helping others when we help ourselves first and put our best interest in the first place. This also gives you the opportunity to realize that it's in your best interest for others to be happy too.
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figmentfragment
seriousfraulicking
Registered: 04/10/07
Posts: 336
Loc: Kiwi Land.
Last seen: 1 day, 14 hours
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Quote:
Chronic777: "I think its all about helping when you know you can, and otherwise loving kindness & compassion will have to be enough...at least i tried to help it "
HMMM  ...Perhaps there is more to it than I think.
You mention intention and compassion...
This is pure contemplation; but perhaps to witness any form of suffering in another, to feel an empathetic or sympathetic bond...Is to become aware of something greater and beyond yourself and your own experience?
Could this emotional response for another, be used as a reminder to ourselves that there is more than ourselves?
I am not quite sure where that train of thought is heading...
However...Two questions:
Why do humans, and certain humans more than others feel for the suffering of another animal?
What do we think is being achieved by intervening?
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"For me, the adventures of the mind, each inflection of thought, each movement, nuance, growth, discovery, is a source of exhilaration."
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Chronic777
Awareness of "I Am"
Registered: 05/08/04
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I dont see anything wrong with what i said, im just saying sometimes we do more harm then good, scratching a bloody itch only makes the wound bigger.
I tried to help the bird by picking it up and probably damaged its wing even more in the process. My best interests were to help the bird, in the process i may have damaged it even more & even put my scent on it which means its mother may reject it, if it even survived.
If you can help then you should, i don't see how this can be disputed, in the case of the bird i simply could not help but still tried, i now think i shouldnt have even tried. This is the conflict. By helping are we actually helping?
We feel compassion as we are that other being so we feel we must help it, i think in the end do what the heart says, if the heart says help, then help, if it say leave it alone, then leave it. In this case my heart was aching but was saying let nature be, so my mind was guilty and forced me to try to help, making the situation worse.
Its like acceptance is great wondrous thing to do, but if you accept then theres no compassion or love, then it isn't true acceptance, it just being cold.
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"That in whom reside all beings and who resides in all beings, who is the giver of grace to all, the Supreme Soul of the universe, the limitless being, I Am That."
"I remember one experience where a person experienced being physically raped by psychedelic crocodiles"
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fireworks_god
Sexy ButtMcDanger
Registered: 03/12/02
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
In this case my heart was aching but was saying let nature be, so my mind was guilty and forced me to try to help, making the situation worse.
So, in other words, one aspect of your mind said one thing and another aspect of your mind said another. The whole "heart" business is nonsense, at least when juxtaposed with the mind in such a sense. 
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
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Quote:
If you can help then you should, i don't see how this can be disputed
Of course it can be disputed, anything can. This is one of the main ingredients of progress and progress of understanding.
Only because someone can help, it doesn't automatically mean that they should.
The internal conflict can occur in the moment one will help solely because they can, and not because they really want to. It will feel more like a duty, like something outside themselves dictating their lives. Maybe a more preferable way to handle these situations is to first consider our own well being (no matter what that is), and then, if we feel like it, help others. Only in the moment we are truly happy with the way we live our lives we can reach a better understanding on what to do regarding someone else's problems.
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This party is old and uninviting
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Nothing is the same after tonight
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 6,864
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 1 hour, 50 minutes
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Quote:
Why do humans, and certain humans more than others feel for the suffering of another animal?
Empathy.
Emotions are pretty much the same on each living individual, only that some individuals become more aware of their meaning than others. When this happens, we're able to associate our experiences and internal thoughts with someone else's.
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This party is old and uninviting
Participants all in black and white
You enter in fullblown technicolor
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Chronic777
Awareness of "I Am"
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 2,993
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I suppose you can only help if you actually feel driven to, if you feel its a labour to do it then there will be no point in it as it has no love behind it.
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"That in whom reside all beings and who resides in all beings, who is the giver of grace to all, the Supreme Soul of the universe, the limitless being, I Am That."
"I remember one experience where a person experienced being physically raped by psychedelic crocodiles"
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 9,033
Loc: PNW
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Quote:
Well i definately could not have killed it myself, i just cant do that.
You can do it, you just choose not to. You also choose to tell yourself that you cannot, when the fact is that you will not. If the bird was left on your doorstep, and you crushed it with your foot by accident, you would have killed it. This means that you CAN kill. The fact that you choose to refrain from killing is entirely unrelated from your ability to do so.
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backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
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Perhaps you have not been keeping up on your death meditations??
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 PhanTomCat
Wildcat that Never Was....
Registered: 09/07/04
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 Re: Cat & Bird? [Re: NiamhNyx]
#8355394 - 05/02/08 08:15 PM (4 months, 1 day ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said:
That's exactly how cats kill, they get off on torture.
Yeah, my cat also gets off on torturing the end of a piece of string when I drag it across the floor in front of him.... 
You can't just label an intention to the instinct of an animal....!?
>^;;^<
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
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I was joking, of course...I'm sure cats are not aware of the suffering of their prey, and just experience the hunt as something they are driven to do. They certainly enjoy it, that much is clearly demonstrated by thier body language. But yeah, cats probably aren't really sadists, it's just us projecting our own values and experiences onto them. But it sure seems like it the way thier eyes light up and thier pupils dilate while they're letting a mouse run few paces before pouncing on it and tossing it up in the air over and over again ad nauseum...
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