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 DIYGardens
Stranger
Registered: 11/19/07
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 Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: johnm214]
#8334009 - 04/27/08 12:51 PM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Religion
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dill705
fuckin' J key sticks
 
Registered: 12/10/07
Posts: 2,245
Loc: A continual state of dark...
Last seen: 2 days, 22 hours
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: misterdogman]
#8336767 - 04/28/08 06:14 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
misterdogman said:
Quote:
niteowl said:
Dumb asses and people who are easily addicted are getting drugs now.
Why punish me for having weed or shrooms?
Total legalization (with restrictions) is the only answer.
Then the dumb asses and addicts can get some professional help.
No, I agree, your totally right, why should some addicts problem he needs professional help with affect our adult decision to use some harmless plant and or fungus? It shouldnt, so we should kill the types who abuse and do drugs they will steal kill and die for. Because I for one would not do those retarded and insane things to obtain the simple drugs I use, So im my mind there is a huge difference in us and them and legalizing any drug needs to be really analyzed before jumping in head first because some people will find a way to ruin it for all of us. Just like gum back in school, one retarded kid snuck it in and got it on the carpet 1 time, and then we all had to quit chewing it damn it.
No one steals, kills, and/or dies for drugs. People may die of drugs, but not for them. People steal and kill for the money involved in selling drugs or the outrageous prices of buying them. We all know that the drug war artificially raises prices on all illicit drugs.
Reference the bumber sticker: Drugs cause crime like forks cause obesity!
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Drug control - $12 billion/yr
Incarceration - $30 billion/yr
Police protection - $9.1 billion/yr
Legal adjudication - $4.5 billion/yr
Having a populous trained to recognize their own bodies as government regulated property, and to gorge exclusively on government approved brands of pharmaceuticals and fast food - PRICELESS
This sig brought to you by: ExplosiveMango ~ ripe fruity taste, explosive diahrea!
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 1,964
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 3 hours, 30 minutes
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: dill705]
#8336820 - 04/28/08 07:23 AM (4 months, 8 days ago) |
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Oh god... thread too long... want to contribute but don't have time to read it all...
What do you think of the suggestion that a simple way to distinguish which drugs should remain illegal is simply if they are addictive or not? If it's not addictive (and if it's not freakin rat poison) there's only so much damage you can do to yourself. OTOH, a relatively harmless drug can still be crippling if it is addictive, if not for health reasons then for financial reasons.
Maybe there's a more delicate approach to drug legislation, but this way seems pretty simple and it's a hell of a lot more delicate than the current situation.
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9/11 was sketchy but I mean come on
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astronaut
manual labor advocate
Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 556
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 22 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: zouden]
#8373356 - 05/07/08 02:21 PM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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I too am in favor of doing away with drug prohibition all-together.
Certain drugs are in fact quite dangerous though, so I'd add that money currently funding the war on drugs should instead be used to educate the masses on the risks of specific drugs. In particular, people should be made to understand what an addiction truly is -- personally, I had no idea before experiencing it first-hand. The dangers associated with psychedelics should also be clarified better (and in a more unbiased fashion), as should the overdose potential of certain drugs.
If all drugs were legalized, kids wouldn't be resorting to inhalants, Datura, CCCs, benzedrex, etc, to get high, all of which are way more dangerous than their currently illegal counterparts.
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In another Time's Forgotten Space, your Eyes looked through your Mother's Face.
Wildflower Seed on the Sand and Stone, may the Four Winds blow you Safely Home!
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THEBats
FuturePsychopharmacologist
Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 1,160
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 14 days, 10 hours
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: zouden]
#8373508 - 05/07/08 03:08 PM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
zouden said:
Oh god... thread too long... want to contribute but don't have time to read it all...
What do you think of the suggestion that a simple way to distinguish which drugs should remain illegal is simply if they are addictive or not? If it's not addictive (and if it's not freakin rat poison) there's only so much damage you can do to yourself. OTOH, a relatively harmless drug can still be crippling if it is addictive, if not for health reasons then for financial reasons.
Maybe there's a more delicate approach to drug legislation, but this way seems pretty simple and it's a hell of a lot more delicate than the current situation.
All drugs have the capability of being addictive and damaging to quality of life. It all depends on the individual.
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Edited by THEBats (05/07/08 03:09 PM)
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 1,964
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 3 hours, 30 minutes
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: THEBats]
#8373882 - 05/07/08 04:45 PM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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Yes, but there's a big difference between drugs that are physiologically addictive (meth, heroin, cocaine, tobacco) and ones that aren't (psilocybin, LSD, MDMA, aspirin)
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9/11 was sketchy but I mean come on
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THEBats
FuturePsychopharmacologist
Registered: 03/18/05
Posts: 1,160
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 14 days, 10 hours
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: zouden]
#8373960 - 05/07/08 05:10 PM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
zouden said:
Yes, but there's a big difference between drugs that are physiologically addictive (meth, heroin, cocaine, tobacco) and ones that aren't (psilocybin, LSD, MDMA, aspirin)
meth, cocaine and nicotine are psychologically addictive... for this reason no one is going to go into seizures that could possibly lead to death if they suddenly stop taking them.
Alcohol is one such drug however in which people may go into seizures if they stop taking it however I don't believe it should be illegal. Some people may get addicted. Others won't. To deny those who can use the drug moderately is wrong IMO.
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Edited by THEBats (05/07/08 05:12 PM)
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astronaut
manual labor advocate
Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 556
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 22 hours, 12 minutes
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: THEBats]
#8374182 - 05/07/08 06:07 PM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
THEBats said:
Quote:
zouden said:
Yes, but there's a big difference between drugs that are physiologically addictive (meth, heroin, cocaine, tobacco) and ones that aren't (psilocybin, LSD, MDMA, aspirin)
meth, cocaine and nicotine are psychologically addictive... for this reason no one is going to go into seizures that could possibly lead to death if they suddenly stop taking them.
Alcohol is one such drug however in which people may go into seizures if they stop taking it however I don't believe it should be illegal. Some people may get addicted. Others won't. To deny those who can use the drug moderately is wrong IMO.
You're misinformed, man. First off, just because a drug is psychologically addictive, doesn't mean that it can't be physically addictive as well. Meth, coke, cigs, and alcohol are all both psychologically and physically addictive. The criteria for physical addiction isn't seizures after quitting, it's physical withdrawal symptoms in general. All of these drugs have them, and all have the capacity to be habit-forming on a purely psychological level as well.
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In another Time's Forgotten Space, your Eyes looked through your Mother's Face.
Wildflower Seed on the Sand and Stone, may the Four Winds blow you Safely Home!
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 johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,010
Loc: Americas
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: astronaut]
#8374197 - 05/07/08 06:10 PM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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yeah, pretty much any substance w/ some activity in the body causes dependance
and anything can be addicting
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Chemy
This is a stick up
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 5,528
Loc: Log Cabin, AK
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: astronaut]
#8374219 - 05/07/08 06:14 PM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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Thought I'd add this since I have experienced DT's from alcohol withdrawal:
Quote:
Unlike the withdrawal syndrome associated with opiate addiction (generally), delirium tremens (and alcohol withdrawal in general) can be fatal. Mortality can be up to 35% if untreated; if treated early, death rates range from 5-15%
Just because I can't control my alcohol consumption doesn't mean everyone else should be thrown in jail for enjoying alcohol on weekends or social situations, I think everyone would agree.
The same exact thing can be said for EVERY OTHER DRUG. DARE programming has hindered your logic and you cease to think for yourself.
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“There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them". -Ayn Rand
“Useless laws weaken the necessary laws.”
-Montesquieu, 1748
The thesis that I want to advance today is that the drug war and the laws that prohibit the private consumption of certain drugs are unconstitutional. Prohibition laws, themselves, violate every tenet of limited government that is embodied in our Constitution.
http://www.paulhager.org/libertarian/drug_con.html
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 1,964
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 3 hours, 30 minutes
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: Chemy]
#8376261 - 05/08/08 02:09 AM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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Alcohol addiction is very rare. Only about 30% of the Caucasian population are capable of getting addicted, because it requires a genetic predisposition. Alcoholism is unheard of in Asian countries for the same reason.
So the majority of people are at least capable of using alcohol responsibly.
But nicotine, heroin, meth etc - very easy to get addicted to, very difficult to just enjoy responsibly. This is why I think they should be illegal.
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9/11 was sketchy but I mean come on
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niteowl
GrandPaw
Registered: 07/01/03
Posts: 5,707
Loc: Arkansas
Last seen: 5 days, 4 hours
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: zouden]
#8376420 - 05/08/08 03:26 AM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
But nicotine, heroin, meth etc - very easy to get addicted to, very difficult to just enjoy responsibly. This is why I think they should be *illegal*.
*strongly regulated*
No drug should be illegal, IMO.
Drugs that are physically addictive, should be strongly regulated. Since you can become psychologically addicted to anything.
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Being happy doesn't mean everythings perfect.
It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfections
"Fear is the mind killer.
I will face my fear and let it pass thru me"
Paul Atreides: Dune
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Chemy
This is a stick up
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 5,528
Loc: Log Cabin, AK
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: zouden]
#8376450 - 05/08/08 03:52 AM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
zouden said:
Alcohol addiction is very rare. Only about 30% of the Caucasian population are capable of getting addicted, because it requires a genetic predisposition. Alcoholism is unheard of in Asian countries for the same reason.
So the majority of people are at least capable of using alcohol responsibly.
But nicotine, heroin, meth etc - very easy to get addicted to, very difficult to just enjoy responsibly. This is why I think they should be illegal.
What a crock of total shit.
Let me break down your false information.
I will back up every iota of information I present, hereafter referred to as "facts".
Quote:
Alcohol addiction is very rare.
Oh is it now????
The World Health Organization estimates that 140 million people worldwide are ADDICTED to alcohol.
Quote:
Only about 30% of the Caucasian population are capable of getting addicted, because it requires a genetic predisposition. Alcoholism is unheard of in Asian countries for the same reason.
Oh really???
2.13% of the Asian-American population is addicted to alcohol, according to National Institute on
Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism (NIAAA)
http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/Resources/DatabaseResources/QuickFacts/AlcoholDependence/abusdep1.htm
Heres some non Caucasian alcoholism facts:
Total percent of race (US stats) addicted to alcohol:
Hispanic/Latino: 3.97%
Native American: 5.75%
Black: 3.29%
Quote:
Approximately 14 million Americans—7.4 percent of the population —meet the diagnostic criteria for alcohol abuse or alcoholism (Gran et al. 1994).
http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh24-1/toc24-1.htm
What exactly do you consider "very rare" an addiction rate below 99%?????
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“There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them". -Ayn Rand
“Useless laws weaken the necessary laws.”
-Montesquieu, 1748
The thesis that I want to advance today is that the drug war and the laws that prohibit the private consumption of certain drugs are unconstitutional. Prohibition laws, themselves, violate every tenet of limited government that is embodied in our Constitution.
http://www.paulhager.org/libertarian/drug_con.html
Edited by Chemy (05/08/08 04:10 AM)
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 b0red5tiff
THE CANDY KING
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 7,028
Loc: \m/
Last seen: 3 minutes, 57 seconds
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: Chemy]
#8376468 - 05/08/08 04:13 AM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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pcp
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***if you're reading this then you're already asleep***
***if we're gonna kill each other how are we gonna live forever? if we're gonna live forever how are we gonna kill each other?***
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Mandrake
Shocker
Registered: 01/04/04
Posts: 839
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 Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: allhallows]
#8376490 - 05/08/08 04:45 AM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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Jesus.
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doitagain
shown in thelight in thestrangest ofplaces
Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1,560
Loc: the oc (yeah i know...)
Last seen: 5 days, 14 hours
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: Chemy]
#8376500 - 05/08/08 04:52 AM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Chemy said:
Quote:
thedefone said:
Legalize it. God knows drunk drivers never kill people.
All I do is drink and I never drink and drive.
People caught drunk driving should be sentenced to mandatory minimum 25 years first offense, life on the second offense.
Actually, that should apply to driving while intoxicated on any substance.
dude thats fucking retarded, 25 years for dui? are you for real?
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now i hear the police comin after me
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Chemy
This is a stick up
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 5,528
Loc: Log Cabin, AK
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: doitagain]
#8376518 - 05/08/08 05:11 AM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
doitagain said:
dude thats fucking retarded, 25 years for dui? are you for real?
That sentence will never become a law, here's why:
People die every day because of drunk drivers, therefore DUI is only a misdemeanor.
Nobody dies ever because of marijuana, therefore marijuana is a felony with mandatory minimums up to and including life in prison.
--------------------
“There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them". -Ayn Rand
“Useless laws weaken the necessary laws.”
-Montesquieu, 1748
The thesis that I want to advance today is that the drug war and the laws that prohibit the private consumption of certain drugs are unconstitutional. Prohibition laws, themselves, violate every tenet of limited government that is embodied in our Constitution.
http://www.paulhager.org/libertarian/drug_con.html
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doitagain
shown in thelight in thestrangest ofplaces
Registered: 02/22/07
Posts: 1,560
Loc: the oc (yeah i know...)
Last seen: 5 days, 14 hours
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: Chemy]
#8376523 - 05/08/08 05:15 AM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Chemy said:
Quote:
doitagain said:
dude thats fucking retarded, 25 years for dui? are you for real?
That sentence will never become a law, here's why:
People die every day because of drunk drivers, therefore DUI is only a misdemeanor.
Nobody dies ever because of marijuana, therefore marijuana is a felony with mandatory minimums up to and including life in prison.
im not asking whether you think it'll actually become law, i'm asking whether or not you really think it should be the law.
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now i hear the police comin after me
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Chemy
This is a stick up
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 5,528
Loc: Log Cabin, AK
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: doitagain]
#8376532 - 05/08/08 05:20 AM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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Drunk drivers kill people every single day.
I say stiff prison sentences on the first offense.
I don't know if 25 years is too much, but I say DUI should carry very long prison sentences.
I have zero sympathy for drunk drivers or drivers intoxicated on anything.
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“There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them". -Ayn Rand
“Useless laws weaken the necessary laws.”
-Montesquieu, 1748
The thesis that I want to advance today is that the drug war and the laws that prohibit the private consumption of certain drugs are unconstitutional. Prohibition laws, themselves, violate every tenet of limited government that is embodied in our Constitution.
http://www.paulhager.org/libertarian/drug_con.html
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zouden
Neuroscientist
Registered: 11/12/07
Posts: 1,964
Loc: Australia
Last seen: 3 hours, 30 minutes
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Re: what drugs (if any) do you think should actually remain illegal? [Re: b0red5tiff]
#8376534 - 05/08/08 05:22 AM (3 months, 29 days ago) |
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I said Asian countries, not Asian-Americans. The difference is that "Asian-American" includes people who are of mixed decent, and Filipinos, who aren't Asian. But anyway, I'm sorry for saying it's virtually unheard of, as it's obvious that alcoholism does exist in Asia.
I've always understood that the lack of alcohol dehydrogenase in Asian people - particularly from North Asia - results in a much higher level of acetaldehyde in their blood (Asian Flush) and this reduces the dopamine response to alcohol and results in a much lower propensity to alcoholism. The same is true for women, but less pronounced. The opposite is also true: people with an over expression of alcohol dehydrogenase are more capable of developing alcoholism. There's also a genetic link in a dopamine receptor mutation. The end result is the statistic that only 30% of Caucasians are actually capable of developing addiction to alcohol, and if the rate of alcohol consumption was similar to that of other drugs (which it is not) then we would see this born out. As is it, the enormous consumption of alcohol skews the figures, but from a physiological point of view, alcohol is not considered a particularly addictive drug, and in any case, treatments like disulfiram and naltrexone are very effective at fighting alcoholism.
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9/11 was sketchy but I mean come on
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