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 The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,024
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 Love 
#8310287 - 04/21/08 10:51 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Just a thread for posters to express they're experiences of the ultimate reality of love while under the influence of hallucinogenics (if indeed you have had such an experience)???
The first time i realised love is the only real thing we experience was on shrooms & i felt a deep sorrow of why we don't express this more often, we are taught love is for sissys, love has become cliche, all these things that seem to be opposites of love...hate, anger, frustration, all stem from fear & fear stems from innocence/ignorance.
Why do we fear?
Because we have a selfish illusory perception of being separate from other beings, which is then solidified through constant judgement between right & wrong (love this, dont love that) thus we only look after no1 & create more & more separation thus more & more misery & depression. Human beings are designed to love, we are all born with pure love flowering from our hearts.
We experience reality when we are in deep love, everything makes sense, everything is perfect, life is so unbelievably easy, everything just clicks & falls into place, we float along in an ecstatic state of constant perfection.
Why don't we see this perfection in life all the time???
Isit not just our perception has shifted int a negative state of mind???
Surely this love is there all the time it is only our mental choices that discriminate what we should love?
The ultimate thing i have learned from shrooms is that:
Love heals all wounds, fear creates wounds. Thus everything must be embraced with love, everything.
Fear is an illusion of our minds & Love is a reality of all life & is the very essence of being itself.
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fushock
Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 428
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I learned love is just a human emotion. And that there are things beyond love. And things beyond the things beyond love. And that some kinds of fear and wonder are two sides of the same coin. And that the sides of the coin are human abstractions.
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The Chronic
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 11,024
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Love can be felt for every human emotion, love is beyond emotion.
Love is what drives all life.
Conditional love is a human emotion, when you transcend the human mind all there is is unconditional love. The mind discriminates what should receive love.
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 Sitar
Musicologist
Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 116
Loc: Mid-West
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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I dunno, man. I personally feel that love is a neurochemical con-job; something we've evolved to have in order to form tighter family bonds for more effective survival, etc.
When I trip on psychedelics, these thoughts about love are amplified, and I realize even more fully how we are simply robots programmed to respond to stimuli and neurochemicals.
I've had some interesting psychedelic revelations about consciousness itself, and the interconnectedness of it that we all share, but love is just chemicals in the brain altering the way we think and feel. Not that it's a bad thing, it's just not the mysterious force that the media makes it out to be.
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anyone420
mad buddah abuser
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 5,956
Last seen: 3 years, 13 days
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 Re: Love [Re: Sitar]
#8310621 - 04/21/08 12:39 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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chemicals bro, chemicals
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for all y’all niggaz out there that be puffin shit
when the music go on, y’all listen to this alright
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NineStorms
The Dragon
Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 123
Loc: Existing between Heaven a...
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Love [Re: Sitar]
#8310640 - 04/21/08 12:49 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Hah, I dunno, the media might make it out to be a "mysterious force", but ultimately they cheapen it into dogshit. I do feel that everything has two sides: so yeah, in a way, "love" might just be some force made to have us fuck.
But on the other hand... Listen to good music, the best humankind has produced, and you'll definitely experience something greater than anything else, if you let yourself do so. My second LSD trip I was listening to some rock and roll, and it felt like the songs were echoes of the first love ever, back in the beginning of time. It was totally awesome. And on many of my mushroom trips, well, tripping off of love is such a great feeling <grins>. I do feel music is the best and most primal way to feel this.
For me personally I think the nature of the universe is possibility: what is and what isn't. To be or not to be. Love, and everything positive, is that which is, that which be. Fear, and everything negative, is that which isn't, that which cannot be. Now I'm not sure there's necessarily anything right or wrong about these two sides. I think the yin-yang is a great metaphor for it, and ultimately the yin-yang isn't a simple representation of good and evil. But considering how much things get fucked up when we wallow in fear and hate, I'd say love wins by a landslide.
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MindFood
Chemist
Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 596
Loc: England
Last seen: 1 month, 8 days
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Totally agree man, interesting post and worth my 5 stars. Psychedelics can train your mind to think like that but it's harder said than done to try and always think in this way when your not tripping. I try to do it, it's a better way of thinking...
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Why do we fear?
Why don't we see this perfection in life all the time???
Isit not just our perception has shifted int a negative state of mind???
Surely this love is there all the time it is only our mental choices that discriminate what we should love?
I've felt what was subjectively Pure Love while under psychedelics, and it blew my mind. Nirvana, Enlightenment, Zen, becoming one with the Tao, ego death, ego dissolution, getting blown into the psychedelic stratosphere, you name it... it was absolute peace. Trouble is, we're fundamentally animals. Evolutionarily speaking, we got here by surviving, reproducing, and killing the bestest. And in a wholly biological and animalistic world, we're left with the greatest contradictory dichotomy this side of pb & j... a logical, rational mind of a man coupled with the genetic instincts of an animal.
This is why the ideal of communism and the counter-culture revolution of the sixties failed. If everyone was perfectly rational or could experience Enlightenment fulltime, then we would have peace. But we're not perfectly rational, and short of a worldwide psychedelics-in-the-water-supply type coup or the world's 6.5 billion human animals to take up Zen meditation, our own genetics run unstopped. The only reason we're able to have a global, multi-cultural bond of conversing, philosophizing human beings is because we've managed to suppress these natural instincts under society, law, civilization, and a formidable set of encoded moral principles under the guise of religion or culture.
This is why fear, hate, greed, and jealousy exist: take away society or culture, and the system falls apart. Survivors of a shipwreck end up drawing straws to see who'll get killed first to become mere consumption for the other survivors, for instance, or the survivors of Hurricane Katrina turning to looting, raping, and murdering as soon as the figurative lights went out. The literary examples of William Golding's Lord of the Flies or any semi-realistic apocalyptic scenario invariably also lead to this grim conclusion. The spectre of overpopulation and starvation now looms upon our future. Peace, love, and understanding is all fine when you've got a tradition of laws setting in place that what's mine is mine, but take that away and all the love you've got won't stop a bigger primate from taking away all your bananas.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
  
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Sitar
Musicologist
Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 116
Loc: Mid-West
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Well said, Cypher.
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allisthesame
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/08
Posts: 365
Last seen: 4 years, 28 days
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Re: Love [Re: Sitar]
#8311797 - 04/21/08 06:11 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Sitar said:
I dunno, man. I personally feel that love is a neurochemical con-job; something we've evolved to have in order to form tighter family bonds for more effective survival, etc.
When I trip on psychedelics, these thoughts about love are amplified, and I realize even more fully how we are simply robots programmed to respond to stimuli and neurochemicals.
I've had some interesting psychedelic revelations about consciousness itself, and the interconnectedness of it that we all share, but love is just chemicals in the brain altering the way we think and feel. Not that it's a bad thing, it's just not the mysterious force that the media makes it out to be.
Love permeates all things... without love you'd be nothing but hate. Hate for all your senses and all your thoughts and perceptions... but you already know that.But what if there was no love. Then who would still be around today?
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Sitar
Musicologist
Registered: 03/26/08
Posts: 116
Loc: Mid-West
Last seen: 3 years, 11 months
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Well, in reality, love is just a word people gave to the release of chemicals in the brain caused by a deep infatuation and sexual attraction to another person (at least that's what being "in love" is).
And love for your family or friends is just a deep fondness for them coupled with the realization of their importance in your life and in relation to your id and ego.
Now, that doesn't cheapen the experience or value of it just because it can be explained like that. I'm just explaining it without judging it.
It's funny to me when people say, "you can't explain love". It's like, yes you can. At least people with the technical knowledge and desire to explore such concepts in depth can.
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deCypher
Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 52,515
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Re: Love [Re: Sitar]
#8311980 - 04/21/08 07:01 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Sitar, out of all the people posting on this site, your views most closely resemble mine. It's amazing how much we want to deny the cold, hard, logical explanations behind some of our most "human" emotions.
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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
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tripleclick
cloud bursting
Registered: 05/06/07
Posts: 3,316
Loc: jaguar house 
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I love u two guys.
thanks for your posts
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wildchild68
lion in a coma
Registered: 11/19/07
Posts: 5,112
Last seen: 1 day, 6 hours
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Re: Love [Re: Sitar]
#8312633 - 04/21/08 10:15 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Sitar said:
It's funny to me when people say, "you can't explain love". It's like, yes you can. At least people with the technical knowledge and desire to explore such concepts in depth can.
Yeah, but your only looking at from a chemical viewpoint. It's safe to say that everyone experiences emotions perhaps a little differently. We all have different perspectives and subjective realities that we live in. So I'm not so sure everything we experience can just be pinned down to certain chemicals reacting in our brain.
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NineStorms
The Dragon
Registered: 02/28/07
Posts: 123
Loc: Existing between Heaven a...
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Quote:
The Cypher said:It's amazing how much we want to deny the cold, hard, logical explanations behind some of our most "human" emotions.
There's something really funny to me about that response. The word, and the concept, of the "chemical" occured only in the last few hundred years. Before that, what was reality? Go to any South American tribe that remains somewhat untouched by modern "civilization", and you'll see their reality is totally different from yours. What's also funny is how in putting a label on something which you have, ultimately, no idea what it actually is, you feel it makes it cold, hard, and logical. No it ain't. That's just you doing it. So we call it a chemical: that somehow makes it less magical? You feel something which you have no idea how to describe, except that it makes you feel good, great, awesome, complete. What in the make-up of those atoms and molecules creates that feeling? Why? Why does it do it in that way, hell, why did a universe based on physical and chemical and biological laws even allow something like that to happen! Dang man, that doesn't compute!
You certainly make sense in what you say, and I agree in some ways. As far as natural instincts... I'd say no. What we're doing is evolving. I might be making shit out of clouds, but I'd say animals have territorial disputes and hierarchal conflicts out of fear. As we grow in life, first we learn the fear necessary to survive... and often more than that. Then, if we're smart, we start to learn how to leave certain fears behind, fears which hinder our growth or the growth of others. The most intelligent people I know, whether emotionally or intellectually, always a combination of both, are also some of the most loving, tolerant, and understanding. There are those who have been wounded, there are those who have been raised in fear, and you can always tell they seem to be closer to a scared animal, perhaps what you'd call stupid. They say fear is the mindkiller.
Anyways, I've wandered from topic to topic. The one thing I'll say last is the idea of the self-fulfilling prophecy. Because no matter what, how you treat the idea of love will influence *how* you love. If you do reduce it down to some neuro-chemical conjob, well... it might well be. But you damn well aren't going to act like someone who believes it something to be mystical and amazing, no matter its origins. You won't, unless some small part of you still believes in it being something unexplainable, despite what the rest of your mind is telling you.
Very cool thread.
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allisthesame
Stranger
Registered: 03/01/08
Posts: 365
Last seen: 4 years, 28 days
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Love reduced to nothing is beyond chemicals though, isn't it?
That is the love I am interested in... your chemicals are signalling tools to activate other devices in your brains causing cognition change to an extent that your brain is essentially being rerouted to a new format so to speak. Just like with other chemical substances we indulge in. I wouldn't ever want to indulge in love as a cognition change... I'd want to experience it as it is as I would never peer into why I feel the way I do, it's what you use the feeling for in the first place... the same way I feel on natural, synthetic, and indigenous "chemicals" of the like.
But love is unlike any other substance... except maybe Mushrooms of course... that's like unconditional love with a twist total understanding and non-conformity... like a big form of feeling itself.
Whatever, I'm not sure of my underdstanding of natural love but that's my stance on my understanding of chemical changes.
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Guess what?; You...
A spot of Sunshine: We are energy,... matter is energy that simply has been reduced to a crawl and condensed together to form something.
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ShroomyTunes
psychedeliac
Registered: 07/10/04
Posts: 686
Loc: Ontario
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Science should not make things frivilous just because what we call a scientific explanation tells us how things work in reality. Who cares if we feel love by the ways of neurochemical activity. Any stimuli you are exposed to will have a neurochemical response at some part of your brain and one could, i think easily, argue that the brain is responding to the input, not vice-versa.
So to say love is a response to neurochemistry to drive the proliferation of our species, or what have you, doesn't really make sense to me. Science has helped us find a lot of 'answers' but to say 'shit works' doesn't go on to say 'shit is meaningless'. Does something have to have no explanation for it to be real and meaningful? Would love be more believeable if it could not be likened to a neurological response? I don't understand that line of thinking. I'm with NineStorms on this one.
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outhere4
Anomaly
Registered: 08/07/07
Posts: 457
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Quote:
fushock said:
I learned love is just a human emotion. And that there are things beyond love. And things beyond the things beyond love. And that some kinds of fear and wonder are two sides of the same coin. And that the sides of the coin are human abstractions.
Life and death are two sides of the same coin, any paradoxical opposite or seperate existence or non-existence are illusions, and the interconnected network of energy that we are but don't see, the universe at our highest capable level of understanding, it is surely love. Our DNA and the program of evolution, until we carry it out inside ourselves and evolve the mind, is yet another expression of love and probably one of the highest order, to actualize and reverberate the positive vibes of love entirely. Switch from left hemisphere to right, give up our egos and embrace and love our true Self.
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shr00mer420
smooth guitarist
Registered: 01/31/08
Posts: 122
Loc: earth
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yes very well said
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shit lets face it, i'm always going to be doing drugs
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DimensionX
Quadratic Triangle.
Registered: 09/26/07
Posts: 5,480
Last seen: 4 months, 8 days
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I don't think we can ever say things like "its just chemicals". Because chemicals themselves are not simple mathematical objects working mechanically together. Every chemical is something beyond human comprehension. They all come from a universe/reality which was either immaculately conceived and came from nothing, or is infinite and has been here forever. Or maybe there is a third scenario even more inconceivable. Through emotions like love and peace the human mind can experience this infinity. Nothing in the universe is shallow and mechanical, it has infinite depth and is a miracle. All the chemicals and all matter come from this infinity and they are all part of it and share the same traits. I believe emotions such as love are the best ways of understanding and experiencing this.
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