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 veggie
Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 13,985
Loc: 
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 Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] 
#8309786 - 04/21/08 06:09 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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April 21, 2008 - canada.com
Coastal clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug
Addicts given hallucinogenic detox derived from African plant
 Health officials plan to inspect a Sunshine Coast clinic that provides doses of a powerful psychoactive hallucinogenic as a drug-detoxification treatment.
The Iboga Therapy House administers ibogaine, an African shrub-root alkaloid extract illegal in the U.S., but not yet in Canada.
Ibogaine causes what Iboga House program director Sandra Karpetas describes as "a lucid waking dream state" that induces a mental process she compares to "defragging" (defragmenting) a computer hard drive.
One ibogaine user, quoted in a 2002 Journal of the American Medical Association article, described the experience as "like dying and going to hell 1,000 times."
The drug's effects last anywhere from 24 to 36 hours, says Karpetas, and have three distinct phases.
In the first, four-to-six-hour stage, the client loses all muscle control, vomits often and experiences "rapid and chaotic visual imagery."
In the second phase, eight to 14 hours long, hallucinations become distinctly more personal.
Finally, dosed clients enter a period of "residual stimulation," in which they are typically exhausted but mobile and unable to sleep.
An ibogaine dose opens clients' minds to the realities of their addictions, and the residual effects of the drug leaves them enthusiastic about making life changes with little or no drug cravings to contend with for several weeks or months, says Karpetas, 32.
$4,900 for five days
"It's going to give [clients] insight, hopefully, but it's not a cure. Ibogaine is a tool, but a person really has to be prepared to do the inner work."
A five-day detox session at Iboga House costs about $4,900. The ibogaine is imported from Slovenia and Germany. Iboga House has treated 57 clients since March 2006.
Before that, the facility was run and funded by Vancouver pot crusader Marc Emery, who offered the treatments for free.
Karpetas, Emery's former assistant, took over in 2004 and established it as a non-profit society in 2005. Clients are treated one at a time, which means the clinic does not need to be licensed, Karpetas says.
That may be the case, says Gavin Wilson of the Vancouver Coastal Health Authority, but inspectors plan to visit the facility, anyway. He admits officials were not aware of the clinic's existence until they were contacted by The Province.
"They will check it out to see if they need to be licensed. We will be looking into it," says Wilson.
The clinic is not registered or funded by the province.
A second ibogaine operation, iVeada, run by former Iboga House client Sheldon Pelletier in Vernon, also is not registered or licensed.
The health authority's main concern is that qualified medical personnel are present when ibogaine is administered, says Wilson.
Medical needs met, clinic says
Karpetas says Iboga House has a registered nurse on staff, a substance-abuse counsellor and two emergency medical technicians.
Because ibogaine can cause heart and liver problems, all clients are required to have heart and liver tests prior to dosing, and those tests are screened by a doctor.
iVeada, now in its second year, employs three registered nurses, screens medical tests, has "sitters" to watch over clients and a makeshift ambulance, says Pelletier.
Despite the precautions, Wilson says the health authority is skeptical.
"All we can do is raise awareness and caution people about using these types of substances. We believe additional research is required, and certainly Health Canada approval, before we would consider using ibogaine."
Five clients studied
U.S.-based MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies) is currently studying outcomes for five Iboga House clients who had opiate addictions. A former Iboga Therapy Society director is handling the research.
Karpetas admits the sample set of five is not overly representative.
"It would benefit the ibogaine movement to have a bigger study, better data. Still, it's a start," she says.
University of Miami neurology professor Dr. Deborah Mash began FDA-approved safety studies in 1993 after Howard Lotsof published a review of the research into ibogaine. The FDA stopped the trial after a woman not involved in the study died of an overdose in 1994.
Mash is now embroiled in court proceedings with Lotsof. She argues that Lotsof's patents on using ibogaine to treat cocaine and opiate addiction should be quashed because Lotsof is not a scientist.
Mash has also filed patents on the metabolite noribogaine, which she says is the chemical key to users' feelings of calm after an ibogaine trip.
No real trials, anywhere
"Here I am 13 years later and, God help us, we still don't have any funding," Mash says. "There's never been efficacy trials done anywhere in the world."
Because addicts generally live with complex physical and often mental issues underneath their addictions, a dose of ibogaine without qualified medical experts present could prove disastrous, Mash says.
She fears the potential of ibogaine is being sidelined by a medical establishment lacking the will to properly investigate it, and resistance from an "ibogaine underground" that is making money by offering the drug as a miracle cure.
"Somewhere between true belief and a chance to make a quick buck are individuals who can come to harm," Mash says. Mash is now researching ibogaine at a treatment centre in the Caribbean.
On the net: Iboga Therapy House
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 DarkLotus55
Lucifer's Cohort
Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 65
Loc: Sadly, in the meth capita...
Last seen: 4 years, 23 days
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: veggie]
#8310269 - 04/21/08 10:45 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Now that is really interesting.
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Coaster
Baʿal
Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
Loc: Deep in the Valley
Last seen: 7 months, 17 days
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: DarkLotus55]
#8310281 - 04/21/08 10:48 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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iboga worx
how can they shut them down
fuckin bs
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bait_
Not a Stranger
Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 1,758
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: Coaster]
#8310365 - 04/21/08 11:10 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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At least up in Canada they plan on investigating instead of just knocking down the door and 'collecting evidence'.
I feel that using this as a complimentary alternative medication along with personalized counseling services has the potential to do more than just using another synthetic drug approved for the masses.
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 ,  , and all that other  
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fapjack
Slap my sack
Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 7,405
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 4 days, 21 hours
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: Coaster]
#8311010 - 04/21/08 02:47 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Coaster said:
iboga worx
how can they shut them down
fuckin bs
There isn't enough evidence to prove that it works. I agree with this though.
Quote:
She fears the potential of ibogaine is being sidelined by a medical establishment lacking the will to properly investigate it, and resistance from an "ibogaine underground" that is making money by offering the drug as a miracle cure.
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dwpineal
Psychedelic Artist
Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 3,701
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: fapjack]
#8311850 - 04/21/08 06:29 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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There is plenty of documented evidence of iboga and ibogaine's effectiveness on reducing the symptoms of heroin withdrawal. Just go on you tube and google ibogaine. You should be able to find plenty of accounts - first hand - of people coming off heroin.
I've seen people coming off heroin before and it is a terrible thing to witness. You just want to go out and get some dope for that person so they won't die. At least that's the way I felt when i watched someone in my family going through that. it was horrible. So I went a did a lot of research on all kinds of addiction treatments.
Ibogaine is not a miracle cure, but there is ample hard evidence that it makes the withdrawal easier. Additionally, I believe there is something within the psychedelic experience that it shows the person where they've been, but also who they can be. My personal research shows me that it is a great opportunity for those that can get it, or pay for the treatments.
It apparently is also potentially fatal, according to what I've read. Maybe 11 deaths in 3500 documented treatments. So that is a percentage there. 0.3% chance...but still, when someone's life is so bad, at some point you do what you have to do.
Disclosure: My family member is now in jail for VOP for possession. So we're still very much in the midst of this. I personally wish we had a sane enough government here to allow for these types of treatments to be allowed. But not here...
oh also, the thing that is interesting about the youtube videos is you can really watch some of this happening. These people do seem to be having an all around easier time than what I've seen...
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fapjack
Slap my sack
Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 7,405
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 4 days, 21 hours
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: dwpineal]
#8311984 - 04/21/08 07:03 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I'm a heroin addict, I know what withdrawl is. Even if Ibogaine does make the withdrawl easier, thats still a very small part of the heroin addiction. Bupe makes the withdrawl a lot easier also, doesn't kill a large portion of the people that use it, doesn't make you trip your balls off, and is much cheaper. Also, I wouldn't trust any of the people offering the treatment either. They aren't exactly licensed practitioners, and the reports I've seen on google and erowid don't mean jack shit to me either. I'll believe it when I start seeing reports all over bluelight, until then I don't trust it. I think there is probably some truth to ibogaine working to some extent, but it is so over hyped by people that promote holistic medicine and new age shamanism that I'm really sceptic about this. If it had nothing to do with psychedelics, half the people promoting it now wouldn't give a shit about it. It sounds a lot like rapid detox to me, something that you hear a lot of positive shit about, but something I know from people that I've talked to is a giant scam promoted by greedy people trying to make a buck.
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Coaster
Baʿal
Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 33,501
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Last seen: 7 months, 17 days
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: fapjack]
#8312102 - 04/21/08 07:33 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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ive read erowid reports and it seems to do the trick for all sorts of ailments
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fapjack
Slap my sack
Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 7,405
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 4 days, 21 hours
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: Coaster]
#8312178 - 04/21/08 07:48 PM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I don't trust those reports on erowid either, every single one of them regarding addiction is positive and none of them have any follow ups. There is only 5 reports on addiction anyway, so it isn't really all that large of a % of people that tried it.
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fastfred
Old Hand
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,242
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: fapjack]
#8313311 - 04/22/08 03:15 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
fapjack said:
I don't trust those reports on erowid either, every single one of them regarding addiction is positive and none of them have any follow ups. There is only 5 reports on addiction anyway, so it isn't really all that large of a % of people that tried it.
282 papers for "ibogaine" listed on pubmed.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
It's not like it hasn't been studied, it has. It's been found to be very effective and has been in use for thousands of years.
A few people with pre-existing heart or liver problems die and now it's banned. Anti-drug zealots really show their true nature when they just don't give a shit about getting people off of drugs and actually ban one of the only effective treatments.
-FF
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fapjack
Slap my sack
Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 7,405
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 4 days, 21 hours
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: fastfred]
#8313571 - 04/22/08 07:17 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I meant that their was 5 journals on erowid regarding addiction. I'm going to take some time and read as many of those as I can, as I am interested in the subject. My main problem with the entire ibogaine situation, as I said is that its either being over-hyped or demonized. I don't trust a lot of the information regarding ibogaine that I've read, because it usually seems that the person promoting it have an agenda. It would be nice if there was some %s on relapse rates of people that took ibogaine for opioid addiction, but I've yet to see them. I don't know how much I would trust them anyway unless it was a neutral source.
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fapjack
Slap my sack
Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 7,405
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 4 days, 21 hours
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: fastfred]
#8313588 - 04/22/08 07:25 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I meant that their was 5 journals on erowid regarding addiction. I'm going to take some time and read as many of those as I can, as I am interested in the subject. My main problem with the entire ibogaine situation, as I said is that its either being over-hyped or demonized. I don't trust a lot of the information regarding ibogaine that I've read, because it usually seems that the person promoting it have an agenda. It would be nice if there was some %s on relapse rates of people that took ibogaine for opioid addiction, but I've yet to see them. I don't know how much I would trust them anyway, unless it was a neutral source.
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badchad
Mad Scientist
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 7,896
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: fapjack]
#8313932 - 04/22/08 09:53 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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While I didn't take an intense look, of the 282 "hits" for ibogaine, only 3 were clinical trials. I don't think any of these were blinded or even included a placebo.
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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.
Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.
...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.
Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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dwpineal
Psychedelic Artist
Registered: 07/20/06
Posts: 3,701
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: badchad]
#8314282 - 04/22/08 11:37 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Ibogaine attenuation of morphine withdrawal in mice: role of glutamate N-methyl-D-aspartate receptors.
Leal MB, Michelin K, Souza DO, Elisabetsky E.
Faculdade de Farmácia, Pontifícia Universidade Católica do Rio Grande do Sul, Rua da República 580/306, Cep: 90050-320, Porto Alegre, RS, Brazil. mirnabl@pucrs.br
Ibogaine (IBO) is an alkaloid with putative antiaddictive properties, alleviating opiates dependence and withdrawal. The glutamate N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptors have been implicated in the physiological basis of drug addiction; accordingly, IBO acts as a noncompetitive NMDA antagonist. The purpose of this study was to evaluate the effects of IBO on naloxone-induced withdrawal syndrome in morphine-dependent mice, focusing on the role of NMDA receptors. Jumping, a major behavioral expression of such withdrawal, was significantly (P<.01) inhibited by IBO (40 and 80 mg/kg, 64.2% and 96.9% inhibition, respectively) and MK-801 (0.15 and 0.30 mg/kg, 67.3% and 97.7%, respectively) given prior to naloxone. Coadministration of the lower doses of IBO (40 mg/kg) and MK-801 (0.15 mg/kg) results in 94.7% inhibition of jumping, comparable to the effects of higher doses of either IBO or MK-801. IBO and MK-801 also significantly inhibited NMDA-induced (99.0% and 71.0%, respectively) jumping when given 30 min (but not 24 h) prior to NMDA in nonaddictive mice. There were no significant differences in [3H]MK-801 binding to cortical membranes from naive animals, morphine-dependent animals, or morphine-dependent animals treated with IBO or MK-801. This study provides further evidence that IBO does have an inhibitory effect on opiate withdrawal symptoms and suggests that the complex process resulting in morphine withdrawal includes an IBO-sensitive functional and transitory alteration of NMDA receptor.
PMID: 12921910 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12921910?ordinalpos=16&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
Anti-addictive actions of an iboga alkaloid congener: a novel mechanism for a novel treatment.
Maisonneuve IM, Glick SD.
Center for Neuropharmacology and Neuroscience, Albany Medical College, MC-136, 47 New Scotland Avenue, Albany, NY 12208, USA. maisoni@mail.amc.edu
18-Methoxycoronaridine (18-MC), a novel iboga alkaloid congener that decreases drug self-administration in several animal models, may be a potential treatment for multiple forms of drug abuse. In animal models, 18-MC reduced intravenous morphine, cocaine, methamphetamine and nicotine self-administration, oral alcohol and nicotine intake, and attenuated signs of opioid withdrawal, but had no effect on responding for a nondrug reinforcer (water) and produced no apparent toxicity [Brain Res. 719 (1996) 29; NeuroReport 11 (2000) 2013; Pharmacol. Biochem. Behav. 58 (1997) 615; Psychopharmacology (Berl.) 139 (1998) 274; NeuroReport 9 (1998) 1283; Ann. N. Y. Acad. Sci. 914 (2000) 369]. Consistent with a relationship among drug sensitization, mesolimbic dopamine, and drug-seeking behavior, 18-MC also blocked the sensitized dopamine responses to morphine and cocaine in the nucleus accumbens. An extensive series of receptor studies showed that 18-MC was most potent and somewhat selective as an antagonist at alpha3beta4 nicotinic receptors. Low-dose combinations of 18-MC with other drugs known to have this same action (e.g., mecamylamine, dextromethorphan, bupropion) decreased morphine, methamphetamine, and nicotine self-administration in rats at doses that were ineffective if administered alone. Together, the data support the hypothesis that diencephalic pathways having high densities of alpha3beta4 nicotinic receptors modulate mesocorticolimbic pathways more directly involved in drug reinforcement. Antagonists of alpha3beta4 nicotinic receptors may represent a totally novel approach to treating multiple addictive disorders, and 18-MC might be the first of a new class of synthetic agents acting via this novel mechanism and having a broad spectrum of activity.
PMID: 12895678 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12895678?ordinalpos=17&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
[gradient:#EB2657,#]This one is interesting, has some substances I've never heard of...[/gradient]
A review of chemical agents in the pharmacotherapy of addiction.Levi MS, Borne RF.
Department of Medicinal Chemistry, School of Pharmacy, The University of Mississippi, University, MS 38677, USA.
Chemical substance abuse has tormented mankind throughout history. A number of chemical approaches have been employed in an attempt to treat chemical addiction. Unfortunately, most of these have proven unsuccessful though several chemical entities have been shown to be moderately effective. The naturally occurring alkaloid ibogaine has been reported to interrupt the cravings for alcohol, cocaine and opiates. Other alkaloids from Tabernanthe iboga, such as ibogamine and tabernanthine, provide insight into the structure activity relationship at the different receptors believed to be involved in addiction. The synthetic iboga alkaloid congener, 18-MC, also shows potential as an anti-addictive agent without the hallucinogenic effects of ibogaine. Additionally, acamprosate, BP 897, GBR12909, lofexidine and memantine have shown promising results in the treatment of addiction. All of these leads provide a start for the medicinal chemist to design anti-addictive agents, since currently no drugs are approved in the U.S. for the treatment of addictions to cocaine, methamphetamine, other stimulants or PCP.
PMID: 12369879 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12369879?ordinalpos=20&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum
There are more, I just went through the first page of 4 Ibogaine + addiciton.
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fapjack
Slap my sack
Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 7,405
Loc: Central New Jersey
Last seen: 4 days, 21 hours
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: dwpineal]
#8314315 - 04/22/08 11:44 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I was more interested in the long term treatment of addiction vs the short term treatment of opioid withdrawl. As I said, thats a very small part of the addiction. I've kicked opiates many times, the withdrawl sucks, but it isn't the hard part of addiction.
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badchad
Mad Scientist
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 7,896
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: dwpineal]
#8314317 - 04/22/08 11:45 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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Right, and like I said, none of these are blinded, placebo controlled trials in humans.
I'm not saying it doesn't have potential, but the clinical data is essentially nonexistent.
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...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.
Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.
...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.
Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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fastfred
Old Hand
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,242
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: badchad]
#8321930 - 04/24/08 02:08 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) |
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I would hardly say that's the case. And it doesn't really matter. The animal studies are conclusive enough, especially when combined with the 1000's of years it's been in use and it's natural nature.
There's no big money in drugs that can't be patented, which means natural drugs mostly. That's why the FDA and the government are supposed to stay out of the way of herbal and natural products. But in this case they've jumped around that simple logic and outlawed it for no real reason right off the bat. Obviously there's something wrong with that, and it seems pretty suspicious too.
-FF
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speedball
Stranger
Registered: 02/15/09
Posts: 1
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Clinic faces probe for providing hallucinogenic drug [CAN] [Re: fapjack]
#9801133 - 02/15/09 03:38 AM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I am also a 12 year heroin/methadone/ and of course , for a while a SPEEDBALL, ( i am talking about so much so that I would stay sick until i had coke for the shot as well )
AND I CAN SAY with fucking authority....IBOGAINE WORKS!!! as a matter of fact, i have exactly 22.5 grms of the root bark here in front of me right this second. It cost me close to 200 bucks total from a place in Barrie, where I got 50 grams fed exed to my house 2 days after i sent the money order.
I have tryed it once and I took approximately 7 - 8 grms and about 16 hrs into it I started to experience withdrawl but it had alleviated the pain up until that point
I simply wasn't capable of taking more at the time because I was too nauseous and drained of energy....but I can say that after about 38 hrs I actually felt really great for a day or 2 ( i guess i did enough to experience a partial iboga-glo !)
I am now preparing to ingest ALL of the 22.5 grms over a 3-4 hr staggered schedule.
I will post the results...especially for non- believer/addicts like yourself
maybe you might want to call me after I am clean....etc
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