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 dstark
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 Why the Dark Stage/Period is important.
#8272811 - 04/12/08 03:56 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Ok first of all i will explain what is the dark stage/period in plant photosynthesis.
Its a period after the plant done his light cycle and now he is going to use the Energy(from now i will type "E") to make sugars(C6H2O6).
Here i will show you a scheme that will show you what is going all the way in the plant - ofcourse not detailed.
6CO2 + 6H2O --Light+chlorophyll--> C6H2O6 + 6O2
In simple words the CO2 and H2O(water) breaks down - E of light and the chlorophyll "makes" the sugar and the O2 is emitted.
Before I start getting into it i want to explain what is ATP and ADP.
Built a scheme for you 
Ok so for now that what we have!
Light E --Photosynthesis--> Chemical E of organic products --Cellular respiration--> Chemical E of ATP
Mechanism of Photosynthesis proccessAs a result from Photosynthesis light E that absorbed by Chlorophyll and Carotenoides exchanged to chemical E of organical compound. Chlorophyll absorbe red, bluew light and return green light, Carotenoides absorbe light in diffrent wave lenthes then the Chlorophyll and transfer R to the Chlorophyll, this way effectiveness of the Photosynthesis is increased. Stages/Periods"Light" stage- Photochemical- Light absorption. Photophosphorylation- phosphorylation is the addition of a phosphate (PO4 -3) group to a protein molecule or a small molecule. NADP- Nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide phosphate is used in anabolic reactions. The outcomes/products from the light stge:1. O 2 emitted. 2. Reserve of hydrogens NADP*H 2 remain in chloroplast. 3. Reserve of E (ATP) remain in chloroplast. "Dark" stage- affixing CO2 to Carotenoides in storma. Note: Dark stage also happening during the light stageOk so we got our sugar after pretty long way, now you see that in the DARK stage (you know when lights off :P ) Only then the plant makes his sugar using the NADP*H 2 and ATP. So now my growers you know that the plant needs also some dark time not 24 hours light as some growers believe - as I wrote dark stage happen also during the light stage but it is not as so good hours of dark. Ok so I want to see some comments, write what you think, if you disagree write also and questions welcome also Oh and all the pictures are made by me in the photoshop i forgot to put a copyrite but i hope no1 will stole it... And last thing - as people say: "my English is very little" so please easy with me and if there is any gremmar mistake write me and i will correct! dstark.
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.:Darkie:.
Sucks my Sig must be only 65kb ;(
Edited by dstark (04/12/08 05:57 AM)
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dstark
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: dstark]
#8273389 - 04/12/08 10:33 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Ahm no comments! lazy to read :/ cmon guys i want to see what ou think!
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.:Darkie:.
Sucks my Sig must be only 65kb ;(
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 TODAY
Battletoad
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: dstark]
#8273562 - 04/12/08 11:47 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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ca'rouse (k-rouz)
intr.v.
To engage in boisterous, drunken merrymaking.
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GHuang
Psychedelic Enthusiast
Registered: 04/03/08
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: TODAY]
#8273672 - 04/12/08 12:31 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Someone's been studying for their Bio class...
Of course, its a bit more complex than this and you have specific carbon fixation methods, like:
C3 carbon fixation (Salvia divinorum, maybe?):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C3_carbon_fixation
C4 carbon fixation (full sun plants):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C4_carbon_fixation
CAM plants (such as cacti):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crassulacean_acid_metabolism
Like you said, the light independent reactions don't need to take place in darkness. They just require the products of the light dependent reactions. However, the dark period is important for CAM plants- those of us with cacti must understand that carbon fixation occurs at night, so if you have a light on them 24/7 (which I doubt people do,) it may confuse them and contribute to bad health.
It's pretty interesting stuff and basically boils down to the environment in which the plant was evolved to survive in. Though I'm not sure if the knowledge is negligable when it comes down to the practical, "common sense" level of caring for plants. I keep most of my plants in my room, so when I sleep, they get their fill of darkness.
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Zinglons Acolyte
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: dstark]
#8274039 - 04/12/08 02:20 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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yup
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And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
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"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!" -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move." -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna
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dstark
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Yep you are right
I just saw many people puts they marijuana plants on 24 hours of light, although it does the dark stage at this 24 hours of light but it is not as some good hours of darkness!
Wanted to show the growers...
dstark
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.:Darkie:.
Sucks my Sig must be only 65kb ;(
Edited by dstark (04/14/08 12:48 AM)
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GHuang
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: dstark]
#8276054 - 04/12/08 11:54 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Oh, I didn't think you were talking about Cannabis.
I completely forgot that a lot of people here grow that. I don't know anything about that, but I wonder if Cannabis growers care since they're ultimately meant for consumption. Or if the strains available have been bred so much that it doesn't even matter? Just a thought.
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meatcakeman
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: dstark]
#8276084 - 04/13/08 12:03 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
dstark said:
Yep you are right
I just saw many people puts they marijuana plants on 24 hours of light, although it does the dark stage at this 24 gours of light but it is not as some good hours of darkness!
Wanted to show the growers...
dstark
24 hours of light is only good for the vegetative stage. Once you want your plant to flower you have to change the light regime to 12/12, 12 hours of light and 12 hours of darkness.
So in retrospect, the plants do undergo the Calvin cycle, but only during their flowering stage.
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watch as it comes
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Taharka
The Root of theProblem
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: meatcakeman]
#8276129 - 04/13/08 12:13 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
So in retrospect, the plants do undergo the Calvin cycle, but only during their flowering stage.
No, plants are always undergoing the Calvin cycle.
The second stage of photosynthesis is not really a "dark cycle." It is light-independant. It can only happen after the light-cycle has happened, but it can happen in light or dark. This is because the it depends on the products produced by the light cycle.
The real reason Cannabis plants need light and dark cycles to flower is because plants tell when it is the right time to flower by the lengths of day and night. This is how they would normally choose the right time of year if planted outdoors. If you had an autoflowering cultivar like Lowryder that will flower after a certain time no matter what (and correct me if I'm wrong, b/c I know nothing of growing Cannabis), it could probably flower in 24 hours of light.
And flowering is not the only thing regulated by day/night length.
Edited by Taharka (04/13/08 12:21 AM)
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gandalf579
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: Taharka]
#8277443 - 04/13/08 12:10 PM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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As far as I know, there is no stain of cannabis that will flower in full 24 hour light, and I should know as I have been growing for over 15 years. The light/dark cycle is extremely important in flowering cannabis. The length of the dark cycle is what triggers the chemicals in the plant to switch from vegetative growth to flowering. The length of darkness can be any where from 8 to 14 hours or more. Outdoors, the length of time darkness lasts grows longer as the season progresses.( meaning you have more darkness in the late summer to early fall than you do at the beginning of the season.) Growing indoors, you control everything. Personally, I grow in a grow room, during the vegging stage( from seedling to 1 week before I start the flowering process) I give my plants 24 hour light. When I go to start the flowering cycle, for the first week or so, I give them 20 hour light and 4 hours of dark. After a set time, I will start to increase the length of darkness SLOWLY until I have reached a 10 hours of light to 14 hours of darkness cycle (to some-what "mimic" nature). When I do it that way, I find that the buds are denser and thicker than if I just used a 12/12 light cycle.
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Taharka
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: gandalf579]
#8277981 - 04/13/08 02:22 PM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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In what increments do you increase the length of darkness?
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gandalf579
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: Taharka]
#8278056 - 04/13/08 02:42 PM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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By 5 minutes a day/cycle. That way it is more like in nature and there is less stress on the plants than if you just went from 24 hour light to 12/12 light/dark. When I first started growing, I went from 24 hr. light straight to 12/12 hrs. light/dark, which produced "lanky" buds(they were good but still "lanky"), over time I've discovered that by slowly increasing the dark cycle, it produces a much more denser and compact bud.
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Zinglons Acolyte
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: gandalf579]
#8279471 - 04/13/08 08:38 PM (7 months, 18 days ago) |
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by gradually chamging light, would i be safe to theorize that the better quality may be because the plant will have more flowering hormone at sub-flowering levels, and that makes it prepare to flower and give better bud?
ive read that 18/6 is the ideal light cycle for vegging
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And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!" -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move." -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna
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dstark
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Just give your plants some time of darkness, let them make thier sugars 
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.:Darkie:.
Sucks my Sig must be only 65kb ;(
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MohrKhawbhell
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: gandalf579]
#8281248 - 04/14/08 09:01 AM (7 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
gandalf579 said:
As far as I know, there is no stain of cannabis that will flower in full 24 hour light, and I should know as I have been growing for over 15 years.
Have you heard of Lowryder? Lowryder #2? Powerstout? Masterlow? Bluestreak? Diesel Ryder? Auto AK47???? These and MANY other strains flower, and make very tight buds under 24 hours of light. They make very good smoke, too.
The new Diesel Ryder is purported to be an 18% strain!
Besides that, no, anything going on in the dark cycle (light-independent reads so much better) occurs with light present, also. Any conjecture about a needed dark period is proven conjecture just by the existence of the Lowryder strains and crosses.
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dstark
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: MohrKhawbhell]
#8281301 - 04/14/08 09:19 AM (7 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
MohrKhawbhell said:
Quote:
gandalf579 said:
As far as I know, there is no stain of cannabis that will flower in full 24 hour light, and I should know as I have been growing for over 15 years.
Have you heard of Lowryder? Lowryder #2? Powerstout? Masterlow? Bluestreak? Diesel Ryder? Auto AK47???? These and MANY other strains flower, and make very tight buds under 24 hours of light. They make very good smoke, too.
The new Diesel Ryder is purported to be an 18% strain!
Besides that, no, anything going on in the dark cycle (light-independent reads so much better) occurs with light present, also. Any conjecture about a needed dark period is proven conjecture just by the existence of the Lowryder strains and crosses.
exactly the "NEW"
its genetic engineering, in the nature the plant wont bud at 24 hours and definitly there arnt 24 hours of light (greenland maybe :P- no weed there i think)
OR
Maybe people cultured it somehow.
But i telling you in the nature there is no thing like this, and cant be.
dstark.
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.:Darkie:.
Sucks my Sig must be only 65kb ;(
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Taharka
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: dstark]
#8281587 - 04/14/08 10:28 AM (7 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
dstark said:
Just give your plants some time of darkness, let them make thier sugars
This is why some people say that you should give your plants a dark period, even if they don't actually "need" one. So that they can dedicate their resources to the Calvin cycle instead of the light reaction. We don't know, though, that we actually need to give plants a break from light to let them "concentrate" on carbon fixation.
Or am I wrong?
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Zinglons Acolyte
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: dstark]
#8282351 - 04/14/08 01:50 PM (7 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
dstark said:
Quote:
MohrKhawbhell said:
Quote:
gandalf579 said:
As far as I know, there is no stain of cannabis that will flower in full 24 hour light, and I should know as I have been growing for over 15 years.
Have you heard of Lowryder? Lowryder #2? Powerstout? Masterlow? Bluestreak? Diesel Ryder? Auto AK47???? These and MANY other strains flower, and make very tight buds under 24 hours of light. They make very good smoke, too.
The new Diesel Ryder is purported to be an 18% strain!
Besides that, no, anything going on in the dark cycle (light-independent reads so much better) occurs with light present, also. Any conjecture about a needed dark period is proven conjecture just by the existence of the Lowryder strains and crosses.
exactly the "NEW"
its genetic engineering, in the nature the plant wont bud at 24 hours and definitly there arnt 24 hours of light (greenland maybe :P- no weed there i think)
OR
Maybe people cultured it somehow.
But i telling you in the nature there is no thing like this, and cant be.
dstark.
no... its a cross of lowryder, lowryder itsself is a ruderalis cross
ruderalis flowers because of age, not photoperiod
those strains he mentioned have the ruderalis autoflowering gene but theyre way more potent cause they were crossed with real deal strains and the autoflowering was stabilized, so it will flower under 24 hour light, its just that many of the growers have found 18/6 to yield the best buds
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And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!" -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move." -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna
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 Brainiac
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I notice with my veg seedlings,I have them on a 18/6 .When you turn the lights off the leafs will fold up....
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I'm dyslexia, so get the fuck over it. "Ardet Nec Consumitur" (burned but not destroyed) People shouldn't be afraid of it's government.The government should be afraid of it's people..
Me
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Zinglons Acolyte
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: Brainiac]
#8283625 - 04/14/08 07:08 PM (7 months, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
Brainiac said:
I notice with my veg seedlings,I have them on a 18/6 .When you turn the lights off the leafs will fold up....
thats perfectly normal and natural, they fold up at night because they dont need the surface area to gather sunlight, but if the leaves are open the plant loses more water from transpiration, many plants do this, its not like something bad is happening unless it doesnt unfold hen u turn the lights back on
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And they wandered off.. nine ways till bedfast.
-----
"And lets pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space 'cause theres bugger-all down here on earth!" -Monty Python's "The Universe Song" from The Meaning of Life
"In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely considered as a bad move." -Douglas Adams "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy"
"If the words 'life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on." -Terence McKenna
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Brainiac
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I know.I like playing god....
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I'm dyslexia, so get the fuck over it. "Ardet Nec Consumitur" (burned but not destroyed) People shouldn't be afraid of it's government.The government should be afraid of it's people..
Me
LTB seeds/cutings of SS02, Juul's Giant
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gandalf579
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First off, MohrKhawbhell, I've never heard of "Lowryder" or any of the others, MOD EDIT:NO ASKING FOR SOURCES IN THE ETHNO GARDEN, AND THE ITEM YOU WERE ASKING ABOUT IS ILLEGAL!! I called my seed suppliers(2) and asked them about it and they said that they have never heard of them before but that they would check into it for me. They mainly grows stuff like skunk #1 and some of the "newer" crosses but stays away from anything that was "genetically" altered.
This part is for Brainiac, while it is normal for some plants' leaves to roll up at night, just be sure that you don't see anything that looks like a thread off a spider web, if you do see anything that looks like that on any of your plants, you need to take the affected plant out of your grow room, off of your property and destroy it immediately and be sure to take a shower and wash your clothes BEFORE you re-enter your grow room. I can't remember the name of the bug but there is one that will "roll" the leaf to make a nest to lay their eggs and when the eggs hatch, they will infest the rest of your plants, destroying them. That has happened to me once before and I lost 18 White Widow plants that were about 3 weeks from harvest. What happened was, I checked on my plants before I went on a 2 week trip, I noticed one leaf rolled up and didn't think much of it and went on my trip, when I got back, my entire grow room was totally infested. I had to destroy all of my plants, scrubbed down the entire room from top to bottom and fumigate all of my duct work to make sure there wasn't anything hiding in there. A whole lot of work that could have been avoided if I hadn't ignored that one fucking leaf.( sorry about the cuss word, it's just that remembering that incident still makes me mad as hell and that happened 6 years ago!) Any one know the name of the bug I'm talking about? It's not spider mites, they lay their eggs under the leaves and on the brackets where the stems branch off. Although they are just as bad.
Edited by royer9864 (04/15/08 10:19 AM)
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Nibin
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: gandalf579]
#8287554 - 04/15/08 04:19 PM (7 months, 16 days ago) |
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Ruderalis crosses have been around for a while now, but IMHO they still need work.
Seed Bank (now Sensi Seeds) brought the first ruderalis to Holland in the 80s
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Multispore is like a box of choklits, you never know what your gonna get.
. The Shroomery and mushroom cultivation, a newcomers guide. -----> For all things shroomy
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dstark
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Re: Why the Dark Stage/Period is important. [Re: Nibin]
#8310222 - 04/21/08 11:22 AM (7 months, 10 days ago) |
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