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 Chemy
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 5,727
Loc: Baltimore, MD
Last seen: 17 hours, 51 minutes
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 Drug price rule and legal liability
#8225894 - 04/01/08 07:40 PM (6 months, 9 days ago) |
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Lets say someone made a post about weed prices in a specific area that he heard of, never made any mention of buying, the poster never sold a drug in his life.
Could there be any legal liability if like I said he posted prices in a specific area that he heard of but he never mentioned buying or anything.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 16,322
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: Drug price rule and legal liability [Re: Chemy]
#8227518 - 04/02/08 05:18 AM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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It would depend upon the laws of the country where the event took place. In the US, I think they could maybe get you on a conspiracy charge, but that would be stretching.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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figurine
Cat Tamer
Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 109
Last seen: 21 days, 4 hours
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Re: Drug price rule and legal liability [Re: Seuss]
#8227858 - 04/02/08 09:38 AM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Could constructive possession possibly be applied to what you're talking about?
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 Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!
Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 92,463
Loc: S.F.I.G.E.L.
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Re: Drug price rule and legal liability [Re: Seuss]
#8228620 - 04/02/08 01:17 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
In the US, I think they could maybe get you on a conspiracy charge, but that would be stretching.
they'd need to have the post with the inquiry and either drugs, a
scale or as another stretch a box of baggies since they're now
considered drug related paraphernalia, they need any of the 2 items
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leftysurprise
Powdered Toast Activist
Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 9,615
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 4 days, 10 hours
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Re: Drug price rule and legal liability [Re: Prisoner#1]
#8228892 - 04/02/08 02:15 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
a box of baggies since they're now
considered drug related paraphernalia
wasnt this just in cali that they proposed that? i read in the paper the other day that the idea was thrown out or something.  maybe not. my memory is horrible and sometimes i tend to accidentally fabricate history 
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"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it. "
~Abraham Lincoln
“If I had a quarter for every time I said I had a nickel, I would have five times as much theoretical money. ”
~Stephen Colbert
“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
~Stephen Roberts
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
~Unknown
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Chemy
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 5,727
Loc: Baltimore, MD
Last seen: 17 hours, 51 minutes
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Re: Drug price rule and legal liability [Re: leftysurprise]
#8228911 - 04/02/08 02:19 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
leftysurprise said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
a box of baggies since they're now
considered drug related paraphernalia
wasnt this just in cali that they proposed that? i read in the paper the other day that the idea was thrown out or something. maybe not. my memory is horrible and sometimes i tend to accidentally fabricate history
Drug paraphrenalia defined from Florida:
893.145 "Drug paraphernalia" defined.--The term "drug paraphernalia" means all equipment, products, and materials of any kind which are used, intended for use, or designed for use in planting, propagating, cultivating, growing, harvesting, manufacturing, compounding, converting, producing, processing, preparing, testing, analyzing, packaging, repackaging, storing, containing, concealing, transporting, injecting, ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body a controlled substance in violation of this chapter or s. 877.111. Drug paraphernalia is deemed to be contraband which shall be subject to civil forfeiture. The term includes, but is not limited to:
(1) Kits used, intended for use, or designed for use in the planting, propagating, cultivating, growing, or harvesting of any species of plant which is a controlled substance or from which a controlled substance can be derived.
(2) Kits used, intended for use, or designed for use in manufacturing, compounding, converting, producing, processing, or preparing controlled substances.
(3) Isomerization devices used, intended for use, or designed for use in increasing the potency of any species of plant which is a controlled substance.
(4) Testing equipment used, intended for use, or designed for use in identifying, or in analyzing the strength, effectiveness, or purity of, controlled substances.
(5) Scales and balances used, intended for use, or designed for use in weighing or measuring controlled substances.
(6) Diluents and adulterants, such as quinine hydrochloride, mannitol, mannite, dextrose, and lactose, used, intended for use, or designed for use in cutting controlled substances.
(7) Separation gins and sifters used, intended for use, or designed for use in removing twigs and seeds from, or in otherwise cleaning or refining, cannabis.
(8) Blenders, bowls, containers, spoons, and mixing devices used, intended for use, or designed for use in compounding controlled substances.
(9) Capsules, balloons, envelopes, and other containers used, intended for use, or designed for use in packaging small quantities of controlled substances.
(10) Containers and other objects used, intended for use, or designed for use in storing, concealing, or transporting controlled substances.
(11) Hypodermic syringes, needles, and other objects used, intended for use, or designed for use in parenterally injecting controlled substances into the human body.
(12) Objects used, intended for use, or designed for use in ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing cannabis, cocaine, hashish, hashish oil, or nitrous oxide into the human body, such as:
(a) Metal, wooden, acrylic, glass, stone, plastic, or ceramic pipes, with or without screens, permanent screens, hashish heads, or punctured metal bowls.
(b) Water pipes.
(c) Carburetion tubes and devices.
(d) Smoking and carburetion masks.
(e) Roach clips: meaning objects used to hold burning material, such as a cannabis cigarette, that has become too small or too short to be held in the hand.
(f) Miniature cocaine spoons, and cocaine vials.
(g) Chamber pipes.
(h) Carburetor pipes.
(i) Electric pipes.
(j) Air-driven pipes.
(k) Chillums.
(l) Bongs.
(m) Ice pipes or chillers.
(n) A cartridge or canister, which means a small metal device used to contain nitrous oxide.
(o) A charger, sometimes referred to as a "cracker," which means a small metal or plastic device that contains an interior pin that may be used to expel nitrous oxide from a cartridge or container.
(p) A charging bottle, which means a device that may be used to expel nitrous oxide from a cartridge or canister.
(q) A whip-it, which means a device that may be used to expel nitrous oxide.
(r) A tank.
(s) A balloon.
(t) A hose or tube.
(u) A 2-liter-type soda bottle.
(v) Duct tape.
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leftysurprise
Powdered Toast Activist
Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 9,615
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 4 days, 10 hours
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Re: Drug price rule and legal liability [Re: Chemy]
#8229135 - 04/02/08 03:11 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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well jeebus christ, that kind of includes EVERYTHING. 
--------------------
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it. "
~Abraham Lincoln
“If I had a quarter for every time I said I had a nickel, I would have five times as much theoretical money. ”
~Stephen Colbert
“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.”
~Stephen Roberts
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd."
~Unknown
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TypicalTripper
CannabisCuddling Canuck
Registered: 03/24/07
Posts: 284
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 10 hours, 54 minutes
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Re: Drug price rule and legal liability [Re: leftysurprise]
#8229544 - 04/02/08 04:41 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Duct tape is drug paraphernalia ? Let me just clean my house before the feds come !
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Chemy
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 5,727
Loc: Baltimore, MD
Last seen: 17 hours, 51 minutes
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Re: Drug price rule and legal liability [Re: TypicalTripper]
#8229585 - 04/02/08 04:49 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
TypicalTripper said:
Duct tape is drug paraphernalia ? Let me just clean my house before the feds come !
I quoted Florida state law not Federal law.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,486
Loc: Americas
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Re: Drug price rule and legal liability [Re: Chemy]
#8229826 - 04/02/08 05:41 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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federal and state law is generally in agreement. Baggies are already paraphanalia when used to transport drugs, under the literal reading of what I presume to be every code in teh country.
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Chemy
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 5,727
Loc: Baltimore, MD
Last seen: 17 hours, 51 minutes
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Re: Drug price rule and legal liability [Re: johnm214]
#8229851 - 04/02/08 05:45 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said:
federal and state law is generally in agreement. Baggies are already paraphanalia when used to transport drugs, under the literal reading of what I presume to be every code in teh country.
So duct tape is specifically listed as paraphrenalia under Federal law?
I'll check that out when I get back from the liquor store.
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Chemy
Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 5,727
Loc: Baltimore, MD
Last seen: 17 hours, 51 minutes
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Re: Drug price rule and legal liability [Re: Chemy]
#8229931 - 04/02/08 06:15 PM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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U.S. Code
Title 21, Sec 863
Drug paraphernalia'' defined
The term ''drug paraphernalia'' means any equipment, product, or material of any kind which is primarily intended or designed for use in manufacturing, compounding, converting, concealing, producing, processing, preparing, injecting, ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body a controlled substance, possession of which is unlawful under this subchapter. It includes items primarily intended or designed for use in ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing marijuana, (FOOTNOTE 1) cocaine, hashish, hashish oil, PCP, or amphetamines into the human body, such as :
1. metal, wooden, acrylic, glass, stone, plastic, or ceramic pipes with or without screens, permanent screens, hashish heads, or punctured metal bowls;
2. water pipes
3. carburetion tubes and devices
4. smoking and carburetion masks
5. roach clips: meaning objects used to hold burning material, such as a marihuana cigarette, that has become too small or too short to be held in the hand
6. miniature spoons with level capacities of one-tenth cubic centimeter or less
7. chamber pipes
8. carburetor pipes
9. electric pipes
10. air-driven pipes
11. chillums
12. bongs
13. ice pipes or chillers
14. wired cigarette papers; or
15. cocaine freebase kits
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,486
Loc: Americas
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Re: Drug price rule and legal liability [Re: Chemy]
#8231622 - 04/03/08 12:02 AM (6 months, 8 days ago) |
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I didn't mean it was included specifically, I meant it could be included as the things listed generally aren't exhaustive, and are themselves only illegal when used w/ drugs.
But it looks like the federal law doesn't include containers except when they conceal things.
2925.14 Drug paraphernalia.
(A) As used in this section, “drug paraphernalia” means any equipment, product, or material of any kind that is used by the offender, intended by the offender for use, or designed for use, in propagating, cultivating, growing, harvesting, manufacturing, compounding, converting, producing, processing, preparing, testing, analyzing, packaging, repackaging, storing, containing, concealing, injecting, ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body, a controlled substance in violation of this chapter. “Drug paraphernalia” includes, but is not limited to, any of the following equipment, products, or materials that are used by the offender, intended by the offender for use, or designed by the offender for use, in any of the following manners:
(1) A kit for propagating, cultivating, growing, or harvesting any species of a plant that is a controlled substance or from which a controlled substance can be derived;
(2) A kit for manufacturing, compounding, converting, producing, processing, or preparing a controlled substance;
(3) Any object, instrument, or device for manufacturing, compounding, converting, producing, processing, or preparing methamphetamine;
(4) An isomerization device for increasing the potency of any species of a plant that is a controlled substance;
(5) Testing equipment for identifying, or analyzing the strength, effectiveness, or purity of, a controlled substance;
(6) A scale or balance for weighing or measuring a controlled substance;
(7) A diluent or adulterant, such as quinine hydrochloride, mannitol, mannite, dextrose, or lactose, for cutting a controlled substance;
(8) A separation gin or sifter for removing twigs and seeds from, or otherwise cleaning or refining, marihuana;
(9) A blender, bowl, container, spoon, or mixing device for compounding a controlled substance;
(10) A capsule, balloon, envelope, or container for packaging small quantities of a controlled substance;
(11) A container or device for storing or concealing a controlled substance;
(12) A hypodermic syringe, needle, or instrument for parenterally injecting a controlled substance into the human body;
(13) An object, instrument, or device for ingesting, inhaling, or otherwise introducing into the human body, marihuana, cocaine, hashish, or hashish oil, such as a metal, wooden, acrylic, glass, stone, plastic, or ceramic pipe, with or without a screen, permanent screen, hashish head, or punctured metal bowl; water pipe; carburetion tube or device; smoking or carburetion mask; roach clip or similar object used to hold burning material, such as a marihuana cigarette, that has become too small or too short to be held in the hand; miniature cocaine spoon, or cocaine vial; chamber pipe; carburetor pipe; electric pipe; air driver pipe; chillum; bong; or ice pipe or chiller.
(B) In determining if any equipment, product, or material is drug paraphernalia, a court or law enforcement officer shall consider, in addition to other relevant factors, the following:
(1) Any statement by the owner, or by anyone in control, of the equipment, product, or material, concerning its use;
(2) The proximity in time or space of the equipment, product, or material, or of the act relating to the equipment, product, or material, to a violation of any provision of this chapter;
(3) The proximity of the equipment, product, or material to any controlled substance;
(4) The existence of any residue of a controlled substance on the equipment, product, or material;
(5) Direct or circumstantial evidence of the intent of the owner, or of anyone in control, of the equipment, product, or material, to deliver it to any person whom the owner or person in control of the equipment, product, or material knows intends to use the object to facilitate a violation of any provision of this chapter. A finding that the owner, or anyone in control, of the equipment, product, or material, is not guilty of a violation of any other provision of this chapter does not prevent a finding that the equipment, product, or material was intended or designed by the offender for use as drug paraphernalia.
(6) Any oral or written instruction provided with the equipment, product, or material concerning its use;
(7) Any descriptive material accompanying the equipment, product, or material and explaining or depicting its use;
(8) National or local advertising concerning the use of the equipment, product, or material;
(9) The manner and circumstances in which the equipment, product, or material is displayed for sale;
(10) Direct or circumstantial evidence of the ratio of the sales of the equipment, product, or material to the total sales of the business enterprise;
(11) The existence and scope of legitimate uses of the equipment, product, or material in the community;
(12) Expert testimony concerning the use of the equipment, product, or material.
(C)(1) No person shall knowingly use, or possess with purpose to use, drug paraphernalia.
(2) No person shall knowingly sell, or possess or manufacture with purpose to sell, drug paraphernalia, if the person knows or reasonably should know that the equipment, product, or material will be used as drug paraphernalia.
(3) No person shall place an advertisement in any newspaper, magazine, handbill, or other publication that is published and printed and circulates primarily within this state, if the person knows that the purpose of the advertisement is to promote the illegal sale in this state of the equipment, product, or material that the offender intended or designed for use as drug paraphernalia.
(D) This section does not apply to manufacturers, licensed health professionals authorized to prescribe drugs, pharmacists, owners of pharmacies, and other persons whose conduct is in accordance with Chapters 3719., 4715., 4723., 4729., 4730., 4731., and 4741. of the Revised Code. This section shall not be construed to prohibit the possession or use of a hypodermic as authorized by section 3719.172 of the Revised Code.
(E) Notwithstanding Chapter 2981. of the Revised Code, any drug paraphernalia that was used, possessed, sold, or manufactured in a violation of this section shall be seized, after a conviction for that violation shall be forfeited, and upon forfeiture shall be disposed of pursuant to division (B) of section 2981.12 of the Revised Code.
(F)(1) Whoever violates division (C)(1) of this section is guilty of illegal use or possession of drug paraphernalia, a misdemeanor of the fourth degree.
(2) Except as provided in division (F)(3) of this section, whoever violates division (C)(2) of this section is guilty of dealing in drug paraphernalia, a misdemeanor of the second degree.
(3) Whoever violates division (C)(2) of this section by selling drug paraphernalia to a juvenile is guilty of selling drug paraphernalia to juveniles, a misdemeanor of the first degree.
(4) Whoever violates division (C)(3) of this section is guilty of illegal advertising of drug paraphernalia, a misdemeanor of the second degree.
(G) In addition to any other sanction imposed upon an offender for a violation of this section, the court shall suspend for not less than six months or more than five years the offender’s driver’s or commercial driver’s license or permit. If the offender is a professionally licensed person, in addition to any other sanction imposed for a violation of this section, the court immediately shall comply with section 2925.38 of the Revised Code.
Effective Date: 01-01-2004; 05-17-2006; 07-01-2007
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 16,322
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 hours, 56 minutes
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Re: Drug price rule and legal liability [Re: johnm214]
#8232273 - 04/03/08 04:58 AM (6 months, 7 days ago) |
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At least not everybody has lost their mind:
Quote:
Court says plastic bag is not drug paraphernalia
SANTA FE (AP) - The state Court of Appeals says convictions for possessing drugs and drug paraphernalia violate protections against double jeopardy when the paraphernalia is a plastic bag for a personal drug supply.
The court concludes that separate convictions for the crimes represent multiple punishments for the same offense. That violated constitutional prohibitions.
The court's unanimous decision Friday tossed out the misdemeanor conviction of a man in Farmington, Rafael Almeida, for possessing drug paraphernalia. That paraphernalia was a baggie containing methamphetamine.
Almeida also was convicted of a felony drug possession charge.
A spokesman for Attorney General Gary King says the office has not decided whether to appeal to the state Supreme Court.
This is New Mexico state, not federal.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 6,486
Loc: Americas
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Re: Drug price rule and legal liability [Re: Seuss]
#8234674 - 04/03/08 06:06 PM (6 months, 7 days ago) |
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cool,
note that that still seems to cover bags w/ resin, w/ no marijuana charge; here the penalty for a pipe, or bag, w marijuana residue is worse than having 3 ounces
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