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 Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,379
Loc: PNW
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 Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: PyroBurns]
#8224379 - 04/01/08 01:52 PM (7 months, 30 days ago) |
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Then you did not read my thread, nor any of the many responses I posted to you on other threads.  The information is out there, if you care to find it.
As to not being "meant" to eat a diet consisting primarily of meat, this is apparent to anyone familiar with anatomy. Humans do not have the digestive system of a carnivore, therefore we are not "meant" to subsist on an all-meat diet.
Calcium and animal protein:
http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/Nov96/osteoporosis.ssl.html
Colon health:
http://www.cancerproject.org/survival/cancer_facts/meat.php
http://health.usnews.com/usnews/health/briefs/digestivehealth/hb041209.htm
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
Edited by Veritas (04/01/08 02:07 PM)
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PyroBurns
Wake up to find out
Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 1,909
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: Veritas]
#8224841 - 04/01/08 03:54 PM (7 months, 30 days ago) |
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There's some stuff on meat strewn around here.
http://www.apinchofhealth.com/resources/lowcarb/low-carb-research.html
We have the anatomy of an omnivore. Meat digests in our bodies rather easily. There was a study of doctors tossing pieces of meat into a hole in a Canadian soldier's stomach, and noticed that it is fully digested in about an hour.
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Remember to cut your nails regularly.
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 ChiefGreenLeaf
Cherriest of All Humans
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 743
Loc: Pineal Gland
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: Veritas]
#8226252 - 04/01/08 09:11 PM (7 months, 30 days ago) |
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OK. I will clear this up. First off I will say this, not everyone can handle meat. EVERYONES BODIES ARE DIFFERENT. Best find out what works for you.
Now to the meat of it... humans are omnivores. We have eaten meat since the beginning of our existence. It is the act of hunting which requires higher cognitive activity. So you could say that adding meat to the diet jump started our intelligence.
Now the problem is that MODERN meat is bad. Organic free range meats are awesome. Keep in mind that cattle and what not were not supposed to live off of grain alone. Oh well thats funny cause all conventional meats are raised on the cheap grain diet. Its primarily because of government subsidies but that is another thread all together.
Don't forget about all those lovely chemicals they give to the animals and put into the final product! Damn you FDA!!!
Personally, I have a fat/meat metabolic typing. Others may handle grains better. Speaking in terms of evolution. Man ate meat BEFORE starches (ones that require cooking that is). The neolithic revolution changed everything. Its safe to say that our genes are geared more towards digesting meat then starches.
Some of you hard core vegetarians will prob scream at me for no sources so here. Problem solved. If your going to read anything on the site then jus read the introduction. It lays it all out for ya.
Hope this has cleared up some misconceptions. I just get so sick of hearing "humans aren't supposed to eat meat." Its my favorite food, give it some credit.
Please remember, moderation=key. Just because were supposed to eat meat doesn't mean you can pig out and still be healthy. A balanced diet consisting primarily of leafy greens is where its at yo. Most of the problems attributed to meat consumption are actually due to insufficient amounts of fiber.
Sorry for hijacking the thread but I just had to share.
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ABSENCE OF EVIDNCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"the fact has not created in me
a sense of obligation."
Edited by ChiefGreenLeaf (04/01/08 09:19 PM)
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,379
Loc: PNW
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
#8227952 - 04/02/08 10:12 AM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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Claiming that we have eaten meat and therefore it is healthy for us to eat meat is a naturalistic fallacy. The research clearly shows that eating meat increases disease risk. This is empirical evidence that we are not fully adapted to our opportunistic eating habits. Meat may have helped us survive food shortages, but it does not help us live a long, healthy life.
For most of human history, our life expectancy was @35 years. The "lifestyle" diseases we are dealing with as modern humans usually do not rear their ugly heads until age 40-45. Certainly the unprecedented consumption of sugars and refined starches have much to do with these illnesses, but (as I have clearly demonstrated through my research links) so does the consumption of meat.
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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PyroBurns
Wake up to find out
Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 1,909
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: Veritas]
#8228331 - 04/02/08 12:02 PM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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There is just as much proof backing up that those meat eating claims causing disease are false.
Mainly because most of our meat eaters (a significant majority of the population) go ahead and chill at smoky bars, eat doughnuts, eat processed meats, live in squalor, etc.
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Remember to cut your nails regularly.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,379
Loc: PNW
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: PyroBurns]
#8228441 - 04/02/08 12:32 PM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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Sorry, but there is not valid scientific proof that the links between meat consumption and health risks are false. Even when controlling for confounding factors such as associated lifestyle habits, meat eaters are less healthy than vegetarians.
(See: Seventh Day Adventist Study, China Study, previously linked in my Vegetarian thread.)
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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PyroBurns
Wake up to find out
Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 1,909
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: Veritas]
#8228481 - 04/02/08 12:41 PM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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I've read the SAD study, and it sounds really inconclusive. They don't drink caffeine, alcohol, eat healthy non processed veggies, etc. How is that a fair comparison?
How are you so easily able to dismiss all my links as invalid scientific proof?
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Remember to cut your nails regularly.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,379
Loc: PNW
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: PyroBurns]
#8228506 - 04/02/08 12:49 PM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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Because they don't contain any peer-reviewed studies. You keep referencing popular health books, Dr. Weston A. Price, etc...these are not reputable sources of scientific information. Check it out yourself if you don't believe me.
The reason the SAD study was so persuasive is that ALL the participants, both vegetarians AND meat eaters, lived a fairly exemplary lifestyle otherwise. You mentioned all the confounding factors which might disguise the true cause of meat eaters being prone to disease, but the SAD's don't practice those habits.
Same with the China study. The respondents did not participate in the Western lifestyle, so the main difference was their consumption of meat.
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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PyroBurns
Wake up to find out
Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 1,909
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: Veritas]
#8228540 - 04/02/08 12:58 PM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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Many of my links have nothing to do with WAP.
And popular health books? Good Calories, Bad Calories isn't some diet book. It's an INDEPTH RESEARCH pondering many health topics. I keep referencing it, because it's a INDEPTH RESEARCH book. Full of tons of info.
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Remember to cut your nails regularly.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,379
Loc: PNW
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: PyroBurns]
#8228563 - 04/02/08 01:05 PM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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I'll tell you what...I'll read Taubes' book & get back to you on my review of his citations. I cannot find any information about the scientific support he has offered for his claims, and also cannot find any non-linked scientific research which supports his claims. I believe that you had posted some citations previously, all of which I refuted in detail? I'll have to check up on that one.
Anyway, I'll declare a moratorium on responding to your all-meat, high-saturated-fat glorification posts until I've had a chance to read his book. It IS a popular health book, though, and not a professional scientific review.
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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PyroBurns
Wake up to find out
Registered: 10/14/07
Posts: 1,909
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: Veritas]
#8228623 - 04/02/08 01:17 PM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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The thing is, I'm not even really pumping high meat/sat fat for everyone. That's MY business. What I'm proposing, is for people not to dismiss meat all together on deleterious claims. And I refer to myself/others on high fat diets as evidence that we are actually healthy and not dead on a diet that the AHA thinks we would be dead on within the first day.
Thank you for actually taking to time to go ahead and read the book and stuff.
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Remember to cut your nails regularly.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,379
Loc: PNW
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: PyroBurns]
#8228640 - 04/02/08 01:20 PM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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I'm a scientist, and do not jump on every health-nut bandwagon that comes along. I have spent years reviewing the literature, as well as experimenting with my own diet, so I do not make posts regarding vegetarianism without basis.
The AHA (and others) have not claimed that eating meat and saturated fat will kill you quickly...in fact, they claim that it will slowly sicken and age you, until you develop major system failures & require surgery and medication. 
As I said, I'll get back to you once I've reviewed Taubes' sources.
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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ChiefGreenLeaf
Cherriest of All Humans
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 743
Loc: Pineal Gland
Last seen: 7 days, 13 hours
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: Veritas]
#8228901 - 04/02/08 02:17 PM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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Veritas, you have a couple of good points, but allow me to point something out. Human require fats in the diet. Your brain is made of fat. EFA are ESSENTIAL fatty acids. Without fat in the diet, you will die.
Now in today's world you can still get plenty of fat from supplements, etc. (Where do you get yours?) In prehistoric times however, this option was not available. Keep in mind that early humans would eat the meat, organs, even the brain. Now I don't have studies, but I do have a little common sense. If the human body (and nature for that matter) is so efficient, then why would we evolve to where we are required to eat something that would harm us?
I wonder if all these studies used organic, free range meats. If not, then they prove CONVENTIONAL meat is bad for you, not all meat in general. I'm gonna go check. If they did then I'll just take my post down.
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ABSENCE OF EVIDNCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"the fact has not created in me
a sense of obligation."
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,379
Loc: PNW
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
#8228943 - 04/02/08 02:25 PM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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There are many plant-based sources of fat. Nuts, seeds, olives, flax, hemp, avocado & coconut all provide EFA's in sufficient quantity for optimum health, without the health risks of saturated fat.
Quote:
If the human body (and nature for that matter) is so efficient, then why would we evolve to where we are required to eat something that would harm us?
First of all, evolution favors organisms which survive long enough to reproduce. The health problems involved with eating meat are usually not manifested until middle age, so evolution has nothing to do with it.
Second, we are not "required" to eat meat. Vegetarians survive very well without meat...they live longer & have fewer health problems. How does this indicate a "requirement" for meat? We, like all other omnivores, are opportunistic eaters. We partially adapted to consuming meat because, at one time, meat-eaters were favored for survival long enough to reproduce.
As far as I know, there have been no studies involving organic, free-range meats. The limited availability and prohibitive cost of such meats rules them out for the majority of humans. However, since a vegetarian diet promotes health and longevity, and is much less expensive, there is no reason to hazard the potential risk of eating free-range meats.
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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reeferaddict69
Self-TransformingMachine Elves
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 3,065
Loc: California
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: Veritas]
#8229055 - 04/02/08 02:50 PM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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Keep it coming Veritas you're a smart cookie!
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"Mathematics is a religion" -Kent Hovind
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ChiefGreenLeaf
Cherriest of All Humans
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 743
Loc: Pineal Gland
Last seen: 7 days, 13 hours
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: Veritas]
#8229137 - 04/02/08 03:11 PM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
There are many plant-based sources of fat. Nuts, seeds, olives, flax, hemp, avocado & coconut all provide EFA's in sufficient quantity for optimum health, without the health risks of saturated fat.
These were only available to certain parts of the world. Prehistoric man couldn't go to the supermarket and pick these up.
Can you at least admit that the health concerns are possibly caused by:
A) cooking the meat
B) the way the meat is raised
No ones going to win here. We could keep pulling sources out of our ass until it hurts. Regardless of all the emm... evidence, I'll just keep eating my bison, beef, chicken, lamb, and fish cause they make me feel good.
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ABSENCE OF EVIDNCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"the fact has not created in me
a sense of obligation."
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leftysurprise
Powdered Toast Activist
Registered: 06/21/05
Posts: 11,595
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 8 hours, 40 minutes
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: reeferaddict69]
#8229149 - 04/02/08 03:14 PM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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Quote:
reeferaddict69 said:
Keep it coming Veritas you're a smart cookie!
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"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it. " ~Abraham Lincoln
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,379
Loc: PNW
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
#8229264 - 04/02/08 03:41 PM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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Prehistoric man definitely ate nuts and seeds. To which parts of the world are you referring? 
Raw meat is NOT better for you than cooked meat. For one thing, it is teeming with putrefactive bacteria, which begin to decay (aka "age") the meat as soon as the animal is killed. The flavor and tenderness imparted through aging is due to these bacteria turning the meat into mush. Cooking kills of some of these critters, but not all of them. Cooking meat, particularly on a grill, does increase the carcinogenic effects.
I will agree that, if you are going to eat meat, it is a good idea to eliminate the additional contaminants caused by antibiotics, growth hormones & the stress of torture farming conditions. But this is akin to saying "if you are going to eat ice cream, buy Breyer's instead of the cheapest generic brand in the store."
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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ChiefGreenLeaf
Cherriest of All Humans
Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 743
Loc: Pineal Gland
Last seen: 7 days, 13 hours
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: Veritas]
#8229384 - 04/02/08 04:08 PM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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You can eat raw meat if it's a fresh kill.
The whole nuts and seeds thing, yea your right. I just thought you were talking about coconuts and avocados.
I'm done arguing it. I am a meat eating machine and am supa-healthy. It's all the proof I need.
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ABSENCE OF EVIDNCE IS NOT EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE
A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"the fact has not created in me
a sense of obligation."
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turnkey
Strange her
Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 51
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Re: Colon Cleansing (fun picture inside) [Re: ChiefGreenLeaf]
#8229530 - 04/02/08 04:37 PM (7 months, 29 days ago) |
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Verita'sQuote:
There are many plant-based sources of fat. Nuts, seeds, olives, flax, hemp, avocado & coconut all provide EFA's in sufficient quantity for optimum health, without the health risks of saturated fat.
Just so nobody gets the wrong idea here, all things listed contain saturated fat at moderate levels.
Ok, healthyeatingclub.com, not the best source, but it had relevant info and seems reliable:
TYPE OF OIL SATURATED FAT POLYUNSATURATED FAT
(grams per 100 grams of oil)
Coconut oil 85 2
Maize oil 16 49
Olive oil 14 11
Palm oil 45 8
Peanut oil 19 29
Safflower oil 10 72
Soy bean oil 14 57
Sunflower oil 13 50
Regardless, they have a lot less saturated fat than red meat and dairy. I prefer to get a lot of my EFA's from hemp milk. Hemp Bliss is awesome.
I also love cheese, beef and ice cream though.
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