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What has this guy done that is special? Most likely nothing, just crackpot claims.
-------------------- Behold yon miserable creature. That Point is a Being like ourselves, but confined to the non-dimensional Gulf. He is himself his own World, his own Universe; of any other than himself he can form no conception; he knows not Length, nor Breadth, nor Height, for he has had no experience of them; he has no cognizance even of the number Two; nor has he a thought of Plurality; for he is himself his One and All, being really Nothing. Yet mark his perfect self-contentment, and hence learn his lesson, that to be self-contented is to be vile and ignorant, and that to aspire is better than to be blindly and impotently happy.
using electrolysis to turn water into HHO and burning it is not a crackpot claim, its been done for a while. The energy used to do it though is either created by burning fossil fuels or nuclear power plants...plus the energy returned is not worth the price to split the water into HHO...
Well, it may be a decent way to make current internal combustion engines into a cleaner burning machines.
But i agree, while looking up info on HHO gas, it doesn't seem that its more than just the parts that water breaks into. And when you add up the electrical costs of breaking up water, you don't save anything in the end (environmentally speaking).
So, this won't make environmental sense until we get our home power from clean sources. I get all my power from hydroelectric/wind, so no matter how much electricity i use at home, i add no more pollution (or at least little more).
So this would be environmentally feasible for me to have a machine sitting in my garage that just separates water all day, then i charge my car up with it, and my car can run at least partly off that.
But the same could be said for an electric car, and its probably more efficient.
-------------------- "To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana
What about Seuss' point that H20 gas (steam and water vapor) is a strong greenhouse gas. Sure it sounds nice because it sounds natural, but how is that better than putting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere?
-------------------- Behold yon miserable creature. That Point is a Being like ourselves, but confined to the non-dimensional Gulf. He is himself his own World, his own Universe; of any other than himself he can form no conception; he knows not Length, nor Breadth, nor Height, for he has had no experience of them; he has no cognizance even of the number Two; nor has he a thought of Plurality; for he is himself his One and All, being really Nothing. Yet mark his perfect self-contentment, and hence learn his lesson, that to be self-contented is to be vile and ignorant, and that to aspire is better than to be blindly and impotently happy.
I love how they call this HHO like that means anything. They may have some patent or trade name but HHO equals H2O from a nomenclature standpoint, its just incorrect.
THis technology could be useful for energy storage, storing hydrogen as fuel which burns clean, but that doesn't deal with the fundamental laws of thermodynamics... he's taking water, making hydrogen and oxygen, and making water again. I'm not genius, but even at 100 percent efficiency, I don't see how this makes sense?
As a means to store energy, fine. As a means to generate it, nope.
THis would be cool if you had some source of energy to begin with that is cheap but not portable (like nuclear) and you simply use hydrogen as the storage medium, but its not an indepndant source.
Water is thought of benign for a reason, its low energy. To create energy you go from high to low, not low to high to low.
So what is the point of this exactly? I wish the news real discussed what the fucking point is. (and again, I must reiterate I fucking love HHO... what the fuck)
Of course it can work... but is it efficient? You create pollution at the start by burning coal, oil, trash, uranium, something, to generate electricity. Then you must transport the electricity... use the electricity to create hydrogen/oxygen gas from water... then burn the hydrogen/oxygen gas to generate motion + pollution (in the form of water vapor).
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
Quote: dirtworshipper said: My brother was just telling me about this. Him and his friends just built a hydrogen cell in the back room at his job. His friend is trying to get his lawnmower to run on a hydrogen cell. Next stop... our cars.
I hope this really does take off.
WOOOOOO!
well i dont have high hopes, seeing as how this was discovered in the 80's!!! big oil will continue to suppress technology to their benefit.
-------------------- "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it. " ~Abraham Lincoln
“If I had a quarter for every time I said I had a nickel, I would have five times as much theoretical money. ” ~Stephen Colbert
“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” ~Stephen Roberts
"George Bush says he speaks to god every day, and christians love him for it. If George Bush said he spoke to god through his hair dryer, they would think he was mad. I fail to see how the addition of a hair dryer makes it any more absurd." ~Unknown
There is nothing to suppress here... as Seuss pointed out, this is nothing but electrolysis of water to get hydrogen and oxygen, which you then react again.
You need more energy to create the hydrogen and oxygen than it is later released by combusting them.
what about hydrogen from water as a longer term storage vessel for wind ot solar energy capture?it seems like the big stumbling block to the technologies that i have looked at is the big bank of batteries in terms of size, cost, and how long they last.
it might be worth the loss of power in the conversion of water to hydrogen gas if it means i can store that gas more efficiently than dealing with 14 car batteries that need to be replaced every few years at $100 a pop.
-------------------- wiccan you need a big glass of shut the fuck up ~ Stein
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr
I wish my lawn was emo, cuz then it would cut itself ~ paraphrased by coda
Quote: dirtworshipper said: My brother was just telling me about this. Him and his friends just built a hydrogen cell in the back room at his job. His friend is trying to get his lawnmower to run on a hydrogen cell. Next stop... our cars.
I hope this really does take off.
WOOOOOO!
well i dont have high hopes, seeing as how this was discovered in the 80's!!! big oil will continue to suppress technology to their benefit.
You're certainly right there. Even if they started marketing hydrogen cell cars, we would have to fill up at their hydrogen filling stations.
A large part of me thinks this could be valuable, like automan said; perhaps in union with other alternative and renewable energy sources.
To say the least, this thread has taught me a few things. With all the technology today, one would think we wouldn't be reliant on fossil fuels anymore.. until one thinks about who a good majority of scientists are working for.
I still have faith that we'll eventually completely cut out or use of fossil fuels, eventually; either by choice.. or because there simply aren't anymore fossil fuels left.
:edit: on the topic of the water torch, I wonder if this could be used to blow glass with? I imagine it certainly gets hot enough. Anyone have any idea? Glass blowers out there?
--------------------
“You've got as many lives as you like, and more, even ones you don't want.” - George Harrison
The problem with burning hydrogen is the flame is invisible. You would probably need to add something to the hydrogen to color the flame so you could see it to work with. The next question, is electrolysis of water cheaper than purchasing propane (or whatever gas is typically used). Doubtful.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
to make yourself, it would require an initial investment of pv cells and/or wind turbine with an alternator, but if you could store harnessed power as hydrogen, the huge repeating costs of batteries could be avoided.
what do you think?
-------------------- wiccan you need a big glass of shut the fuck up ~ Stein
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr
I wish my lawn was emo, cuz then it would cut itself ~ paraphrased by coda
Locally storing energy in hydrogen near power plants makes sense. Transporting the hydrogen to filling stations and let cars drive on it doesn't look as good to me as transporting electricity by wire and using "conventional" batteries. These conventional batteries have to get better though, I'm sure they will, but so will fuel cells. In the end it is just a battle between batteries; what battery, non-hydrogen or hydrogen, will be more efficient/cheaper. Many people see hydrogen as our new energy source, while it's only a new battery. It's cool and useful technology, but hyped in general media. Also don't forget about the energy loss when converting hydrogen back to electricity in a fuel cell.
It will depend on the development of different types of batteries and fuel cells. I guess non-hydrogen batteries are going to win, based on my zero knowledge of the details involved here
The man says he uses electrolysis to split water, then burns the gas.
He rides the media hype, but fact of the matter is that electrolysis of water uses more energy than the gases produce upon combustion or in a fuel cell.
His process costs more energy than it delivers, no free ride here.
i am stating that if i have an array of pv cells and/or wind turbines to generate electricity, i would rather use that energy to store hydrogen gas rather than the repeated expense of batteries that go bad every few years.
-------------------- wiccan you need a big glass of shut the fuck up ~ Stein
No, no, you're not thinking, you're just being logical. ~ Niels Bohr
I wish my lawn was emo, cuz then it would cut itself ~ paraphrased by coda
Quote: In 1996, inventor Stanley Meyer was sued by investors to whom he had sold dealerships, offering the right to do business in Water Fuel Cell technology. According to The Times, Meyer claimed in court that his invention "opened the way for a car which would 'run on water', powered simply by a car battery."[1] The car would even run perpetually without fuel since the energy needed to continue the "fracturing" was low enough for the engine's dynamo to recharge the car's battery.[1] His car was due to be examined by the expert witness Michael Laughton, Professor of Electrical Engineering at Queen Mary, University of London and Fellow of the Royal Academy of Engineering. However, Meyer made what Professor Laughton considered a "lame excuse" on the days of examination and did not allow the test to proceed.[1] The Water Fuel Cell, on the other hand, was examined by three expert witnesses in court who found that there "was nothing revolutionary about the cell at all and that it was simply using conventional electrolysis".[1]
On the basis of the evidence the court found Meyer guilty of "gross and egregious fraud" and ordered to repay the investors their $25,000.[1]
oh, and, lol:
Quote: Stanley Meyer died at the age of 57 after eating at a restaurant on 21 March 1998. An autopsy report by Franklin County, Ohio coroner William R. Adrion concluded that Meyer, who suffered from high blood pressure, had died of a cerebral aneurysm.[6] Conspiracy theories persist, however, that he was poisoned, and that oil companies and the United States government were involved in his death.[7][8]. It is argued that this was done to suppress the technology, in spite of the fact complete plans remain available online[9]. To date, no one has used them to produce a working prototype.
Quote: DieCommie said: What about Seuss' point that H20 gas (steam and water vapor) is a strong greenhouse gas. Sure it sounds nice because it sounds natural, but how is that better than putting carbon dioxide into the atmosphere?
Steam condenses into water and doesn't accumulate in the atmosphere. Also, it's a closed cycle . (H2O -> H2 + O -> H2O)
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