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 imachavel
Stranger
Registered: 06/06/07
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 Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: DieCommie]
#8178455 - 03/22/08 12:52 AM (8 months, 10 days ago) |
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have they proved anti matter exists? i thought energy could never be created or destroyed
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DieCommie
Ally
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 7,655
Loc: The Union
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: imachavel]
#8178516 - 03/22/08 01:14 AM (8 months, 10 days ago) |
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Yea, antimatter does exist and is created by humans in things like particle accelerators (the most expensive substance ever). Also, some radioactive sources emit positrons.
Yes the idea that energy cannot be created or destroyed is correct, but you have to consider mass a type of energy. Einstein showed this with the famous E=mc^2. So if mass is a type of energy, then when antimatter collides with regular matter and emits gamma rays its just a conversion of one type of energy to another, 'mass' energy to 'gamma ray' energy. No energy is created or destroyed. And when radioactive isotopes emit energy, they lose some of their mass.
Think about this... If they can create antimatter in a particle accelerator, and antimatter annihilates with regular matter, how can they store the antimatter? If they put it in a container, it would annihilate with the regular matter in the container and disappear into gamma rays.
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Behold yon miserable creature. That Point is a Being like ourselves, but confined to the non-dimensional Gulf. He is himself his own World, his own Universe; of any other than himself he can form no conception; he knows not Length, nor Breadth, nor Height, for he has had no experience of them; he has no cognizance even of the number Two; nor has he a thought of Plurality; for he is himself his One and All, being really Nothing. Yet mark his perfect self-contentment, and hence learn his lesson, that to be self-contented is to be vile and ignorant, and that to aspire is better than to be blindly and impotently happy.
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 cleeen
Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 383
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: DieCommie]
#8182636 - 03/23/08 06:16 AM (8 months, 9 days ago) |
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Matter antimatter under supercooled magnetic field ..
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It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..
Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!
Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.
Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.
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cleeen
Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 383
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: MDMC]
#8185322 - 03/23/08 10:40 PM (8 months, 8 days ago) |
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Quote:
MDMC said:
Your saying that when a device observes which hole, it has to alter the particle/wave in the very act of observing it?
Isn't there a method of detection that doesn't alter it? I suppose not.
What about the particle interfering with itself? That is strange!
At the level of classic direct observation energy is flung at the article and the rebound is the data that results in the observable image .. this is oK and completely fair , but imagine that on the level of the photon the sensor must flood the area with particles smaller than the object being watched .. this is difficult and instead we are throwing rocks into a pond to measure how flat it is ..
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It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..
Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!
Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.
Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.
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cleeen
Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 383
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: MDMC]
#8185332 - 03/23/08 10:43 PM (8 months, 8 days ago) |
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A shared state of consciousness that holds over time .
since all big bang particles are derived from a theoretical single energy state all particles in the universe are entangled .
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It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..
Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!
Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.
Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 16,838
Loc: Caribbean
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: DieCommie]
#8186394 - 03/24/08 09:36 AM (8 months, 8 days ago) |
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> For example the anti particle of an electron is a positron. Instead of being negative it is positive.
Beta decay is a good example of this... (beta plus decay to be accurate)
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Just another spore in the wind.
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xdzt
Jack of AllTirades
Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 206
Loc: U(anarchy)K
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: Seuss]
#8186667 - 03/24/08 10:45 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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On a somewhat tangential note, I just thought I'd add that uncertainty isn't a result of observation.
Yes it's true that you can't observe without interfering with the experiment, but it turns out uncertainty in wave-particle duality isn't due to this fact.
The theory of quantum mechanics is basically a set of equations based on assumptions regarding the natural world which have been confirmed experimentally -- like any theory. As a result, a theory can not predict anything that isn't compatible with its mathematics. In quantum's case, it turns out that due to the limitations of the equations, you can not know precisely both the momentum and location of a particle/wave. Whether or not this is a fundamental truth or simply the result of a hitherto imperfect theory remains to be seen.
I just thought I'd point that out.  Even without the observer effect there's still uncertainty.
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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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DieCommie
Ally
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 7,655
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: xdzt]
#8186785 - 03/24/08 11:20 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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How can you have an uncertainty in your observation without making an observation?
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Behold yon miserable creature. That Point is a Being like ourselves, but confined to the non-dimensional Gulf. He is himself his own World, his own Universe; of any other than himself he can form no conception; he knows not Length, nor Breadth, nor Height, for he has had no experience of them; he has no cognizance even of the number Two; nor has he a thought of Plurality; for he is himself his One and All, being really Nothing. Yet mark his perfect self-contentment, and hence learn his lesson, that to be self-contented is to be vile and ignorant, and that to aspire is better than to be blindly and impotently happy.
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maggotz
Registered: 06/24/06
Posts: 5,937
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: DieCommie]
#8187037 - 03/24/08 12:32 PM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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you travle faster thn light. 
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cleeen
Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 383
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: maggotz]
#8190474 - 03/25/08 07:13 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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There is uncertainty because the laws that regulate the actions there are unknown/not properly described by the set of laws we know .. thus predictability is lacking
Without predictability there is uncertainty ..
However , Quantum state probability laws suggest that there are physical laws that determine the movement of photons etc .. I.e the dynamic wave form is likely to stabilize in a shape that is in large determined by the probability that it should do so - thus Quantum states are normalized probability curves .
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It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..
Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!
Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.
Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.
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Taharka
The Root of theProblem
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 653
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: DieCommie]
#8190486 - 03/25/08 07:20 AM (8 months, 7 days ago) |
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Antimatter is stored in the center of a vacuum with a magnetic field. Positrons and antiprotons can be stored in this manner. Neutrinos can not be stored because they have no charge.
I don't know much about quantum theory, but isn't one of the points that there is no such thing as "objective" observation, because including an instrument ("observer") in the system the same as altering it? Is there any way to observe a truly closed system if one is not inside of it?
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Annom
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Loc: sdnalrehteN ehT
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: cleeen]
#8190899 - 03/25/08 10:02 AM (8 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
There is uncertainty because the laws that regulate the actions there are unknown/not properly described by the set of laws we know .. thus predictability is lacking
Without predictability there is uncertainty ..
How do you know that a lacking predictability is the cause of an incomplete model instead of a feature of reality?
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cleeen
Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 383
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: Annom]
#8195654 - 03/26/08 08:19 AM (8 months, 6 days ago) |
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Quote:
Annom said:
Quote:
There is uncertainty because the laws that regulate the actions there are unknown/not properly described by the set of laws we know .. thus predictability is lacking
Without predictability there is uncertainty ..
How do you know that a lacking predictability is the cause of an incomplete model instead of a feature of reality?
How do i know ? .. by self denial i guess
There is nothing to suggest otherwise .. Look at some early images of subatomic particles .. then look at more improved images and the clarity begins to show ..
At first sub atomic particles look like small self similar lumps then the ordered diversity begins to emerge ..
Order through Chaos ..
or ... from the brink of chaos then onward to complexity
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It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..
Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!
Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.
Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.
Edited by cleeen (03/26/08 08:30 AM)
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Annom
※※※※※※
Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 5,292
Loc: sdnalrehteN ehT
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: cleeen]
#8195698 - 03/26/08 08:44 AM (8 months, 6 days ago) |
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Very cool looking images, but what does it mean?
Quote:
There is nothing to suggest otherwise
What about the EPR-paradox and related experiments? They suggest that god does play dice as far as I understand (=not very far).
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cleeen
Registered: 05/23/07
Posts: 383
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: Annom]
#8213782 - 03/30/08 09:30 AM (8 months, 2 days ago) |
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Heres the Thing ..
All new things form at first as cloudy images emerging from the unknown (but not the unknowable)
sailing ships were not visible to islanders who had no knowledge of them , they could be offshore quite visible for days and weeks , but until the islanders recognized them as such Sailing ships were considered to be variants of Clouds ..
The sub atomic particles are first imaged as very rough spherical cloudy shapes .. have a look at the antimatter vortices .. they are generally imaged as self similar cloudy units .. but as the resolution improves we see a way whole lot more character and diversity emerging
The charts above show the complexity of the sub atomic particles behavior .. but they do not demonstrate chaos .
This is the common history of all things we know of .. the rules governing their behavior may be unknown to us but there are rules .
Look at the second of the pics above .. each particle is demonstrating precise geometrical paths ..
This is simply as far as we are aware the nature of all things big or small .. there is no unknowable chaotic random meaningless events or articles to proove otherwise ..
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It's a beautiful lie ..
It's a perfect denial .
Such a beautiful lie to believe in
So beautiful, beautiful it makes me ..
Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus!
Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight.
Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.
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Thor
Anti-Theist OVERLORD
Registered: 08/12/98
Posts: 9,654
Loc: Calgary, Canada
Last seen: 1 hour, 20 minutes
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: cleeen]
#8224317 - 04/01/08 01:30 PM (7 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
cleeen said:
sailing ships were not visible to islanders who had no knowledge of them , they could be offshore quite visible for days and weeks , but until the islanders recognized them as such Sailing ships were considered to be variants of Clouds ..
oh no not this again, you watched What the Bleep and believed this?
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Richard Dawkins Foundation for Science and Reason
http://www.richarddawkins.net/
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Cracka_X
Spiritual Dirt Worshipper
Registered: 01/25/03
Posts: 8,287
Loc: Here
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: MDMC]
#8225886 - 04/01/08 07:38 PM (7 months, 30 days ago) |
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quantum mechanics is sure an amazing subject/thing. If I had the vast mental capacity/plasticity for mathematics and interest in physics then that's where I'd be. Shit, for where I want to go, I may end up trying to take an intro to quantum mechanics course.
I was reading a book talking about how Einstein wasn't a fan of quantum physics, as the answers weren't clear cut as Newtonian physics.
I think it's beautiful though.
As for the double slit experiment with the eye/observer and resulting in a double line and not the wave pattern.... There must be something missing.
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Click here to check out lineups for Magnoliafest and Springfest in Live Oak, FL
The best way to live
is to be like water
For water benefits all things
and goes against none of them
It provides for all people
and even cleanses those places
a man is loath to go
In this way it is just like Tao
-Lao Tzu
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sleepy
Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2,607
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: DieCommie]
#8226359 - 04/01/08 09:38 PM (7 months, 30 days ago) |
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Edited by sleepy (04/01/08 09:42 PM)
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DieCommie
Ally
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 7,655
Loc: The Union
Last seen: 10 minutes, 21 seconds
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: sleepy]
#8226447 - 04/01/08 09:58 PM (7 months, 30 days ago) |
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Behold yon miserable creature. That Point is a Being like ourselves, but confined to the non-dimensional Gulf. He is himself his own World, his own Universe; of any other than himself he can form no conception; he knows not Length, nor Breadth, nor Height, for he has had no experience of them; he has no cognizance even of the number Two; nor has he a thought of Plurality; for he is himself his One and All, being really Nothing. Yet mark his perfect self-contentment, and hence learn his lesson, that to be self-contented is to be vile and ignorant, and that to aspire is better than to be blindly and impotently happy.
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lsdPSYCHosis
Stranger
Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 51
Last seen: 7 months, 30 days
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Re: Quantum Physics - The double slit experiment [Re: DieCommie]
#8227236 - 04/02/08 01:20 AM (7 months, 30 days ago) |
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DAMN, fascinating post!
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