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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,817
Loc: underbelly
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 Re: Jesus [Re: Lion]
#8080823 - 02/28/08 09:54 AM (9 months, 1 day ago) |
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I use Bounty.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” ~Stephen Roberts
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 Lion
 
Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 3,754
Loc: The Becoming Tree
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Don't we all. 
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"No eyes, no ears, no nose, no tongue, no body, no mind, no color, no sound, no smell, no taste, no touch, no object of mind, no realm of eyes and so forth until no realm of mind consciousness; no ignorance and also no extinction of it; no old-age and death and also no extinction of them; no suffering, no origination, no stopping, no path, no cognition, also no attainment and no non-attainment." ~Heart Sutra
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,817
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Jesus [Re: Lion]
#8080863 - 02/28/08 10:12 AM (9 months, 1 day ago) |
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Actually I'd like to soak up all these religious figures that put em out with the trash. I'm appalled at the extent that Jesus has polluted the brains of westerners. That and politics.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” ~Stephen Roberts
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backfromthedead
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Thanks for that. Was good.
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lobsterdinner
Stranger
Registered: 02/28/08
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Mod edit: no puppets allowed here.
Edited by Diploid (02/28/08 01:23 PM)
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backfromthedead
Activated
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'I'm appalled at the extent that Jesus has polluted the brains of westerners.'
Might you have a view on the Jesus Myth anyway??
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backfromthedead
Activated
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Here's the truth on a plate:
you don't have to wait-
nobody is coming so get a new date
You've just been stood up:
now at last you can sup-
host your own dinner
and fill your own cup
-cum grano salis-
-Clark Heinrich
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 6,277
Loc: South Florida
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Yes, I second the motion - thanks for posting that video. I am a fan of Freke & Gandy even though I feel their absence from any academic acknowledgements. I vacillate between conservative academic-based 'experts' like Elaine Pagels, whom Freke mentions - a Princeton-based scholar and Freke's & Gandy's own maverick style. I also vacillate between the positions that Jesus was a historical figure versus Jesus as a strictly mythic, archetypal figure. Ultimately, for me, the distinction doesn't matter because 'who' I am essentially is not a historical being, that is 'what' I am existentially. Who I am is the One Subject, One Awareness from which all our individual forms emerge. The entire point of the Buddhist enterprise, as the Gnostic, is to withdraw our false identification with the 'samsaric,' one-sided materialistic position and Realize that our form (indeed, all form) is created by the One Subject. In a dream, we are the actors, the landscape, the story line. This dream ego is a parallel for God/Clear Light who creates/emanates (or dreams, like Vishnu) the universe into existence. At any rate, thanks again.
-MtG
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Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit
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MarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 6,277
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 18 hours, 29 minutes
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Growing up in NJ I used to watch Sandy Becker from the time I was about 3 or 4 to adolescence in his variety of kids shows out of NYC. He played the character of 'Hambone' and 'The Big Professor,' 'Norton Nork' and others. One of his roles was to have kids send meaningless scribbles on paper with a request for Becker to draw something specific, made from the scribbles. I saw him fail only once.
Clark sees Amanitas in virtually every religious, spiritual and Hermetic doctrine in existence. This is even more amusing than Sandy Becker, but obesssion is definately not amusing and Clark's is beyond the pale. Moreover, Amanita muscaria just does not lend itself to transcendental ecstasies such as those described in the accounts of the world's mystics. Moreover, A. muscaria is very undependable. Reveries and copious drooling do not describe mystical experience any more than the Jewish Jesus and His friends were likely to have obtained mushrooms in the desert climate of Judea, or even to have eaten a lowly fungus which would have not been considered to be kosher. Jesus adhered to Jewish dietary laws regardless of what the New Testament wrote about Peter's vision and the right to eat anything, and the subsequent Gentile Christianity that abolished dietary restrictions.
The furthest stretch of my own speculation, drawing on theories of Dan Merkur and recent scholarship about the Eleusinian Mystery Rites, plus the works of Freke and Gandy about the Pagan nature of the Christian mythos, might lead one to consider the eucharistic bread as being infected by the fungus Claviceps paspali, a less toxic form of ergot fungus (possibly used at Eleusis) than Claviceps purpurea which was responsible for ergotism (St. Anthony's Fire) and the principle ingredient in LSD-25. Dan Merkur suggests that the 'shewbread' kept in the Holy of Holies in the time of Moses and Aaron might have been behind their going out 'to see the glory of the LORD.' But these interpretations are materialistic reductions of writings that is much more likely to be pure mythos, and as such symbolic not material.
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Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit
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backfromthedead
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Thanks for that.
However, my few Amanita experiences have been quite mystical to say the least.
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Edited by backfromthedead (02/29/08 07:02 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
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I'm curious about your experiences, but I use the word mysticism in a very specific sense, perhaps best described by Evelyn Underhill:
Mysticism is the art of union with Reality. The mystic is a person who has attained that union in greater or less degree; or who aims at and believes in such attainment.
From Practical Mysticism, page 3, 1915
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Vocatus Atque Non Vocatus Deus Aderit
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backfromthedead
Activated
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'Mysticism is the pursuit of achieving communion, identity with, or conscious awareness of ultimate reality, divinity, spiritual truth, or God through direct experience, intuition, or insight. Traditions may include a belief in the literal existence of dimensional realities beyond empirical perception, or a belief that a true human perception of the world goes beyond current logical reasoning or intellectual comprehension. A person delving in these areas may be called a Mystic.'
-wiki
'I use the word mysticism in a very specific sense'
Most definitely.
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backfromthedead
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Perhaps the framework to this risen Saviour myth didn't originate during the time of Jesus or in Judea at all.
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,617
Loc: PNW
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The risen savior myth can be found in Zoroastrianism, significantly preceding Christianity
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Bufotenin
PiHKAL|TiHKAL|PCPiHKAL|Rhodium
DMT Extraction|Jungle Spice|The FASA Method
Guide to Hunting Amanita
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backfromthedead
Activated
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Very much so.
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falcon
Registered: 04/01/02
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Moreover, Amanita muscaria just does not lend itself to transcendental ecstasies such as those described in the accounts of the world's mystics.
It does however create clarity of sensual experience in doses that are below the threshold of visual distortion. It is an emotional damper and is a mild analgesic.
A. muscaria is very undependable.
Not in my experience, in fact I find that mushrooms collected from different locations in the same climate of the same species are the same. However the Amanita pantherina which can look very similar is, in my experience, about three times as potent. Inaccurate identification may account for variability in the reported potency of Amanita muscaria.
Reveries and copious drooling do not describe mystical experience any more than the Jewish Jesus and His friends were likely to have obtained mushrooms in the desert climate of Judea,
Parts of Judea do however receive over 30 inches of rain a year, which is more than enough for A. muscaria. Prepared and ingested properly copious drooling is not a problem.
or even to have eaten a lowly fungus which would have not been considered to be kosher
A. muscaria does not grow on poop.
Are there restriction that prohibit eating all mushrooms?
Edited by falcon (02/29/08 08:33 PM)
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,617
Loc: PNW
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Re: Jesus [Re: falcon]
#8087865 - 02/29/08 08:50 PM (9 months, 12 hours ago) |
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Aren't pantherinas yellow-capped though? I though the bright red A muscaria cap was hard to misidentify.
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Bufotenin
PiHKAL|TiHKAL|PCPiHKAL|Rhodium
DMT Extraction|Jungle Spice|The FASA Method
Guide to Hunting Amanita
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falcon
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2,524
Last seen: 9 hours, 14 minutes
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A. muscaria colors vary, yellow, orange, light yellow, white and red, with a lot of shades in between.
Pantherina vary brown, tan, some yellowish.
The lighter tan Pantherinas and the lighter yellowish muscarias could be confused if you did not look closely at the other characteristics of the mushrooms.
Obligatory warning: besides muscaria and pantherina there are a lot of mushrooms in the genus Amanita that look enough like the previous two to be mistaken for them. The toxicity of some of these mushrooms are unknown.
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Entropymancer
Saint of Circumstance
Registered: 07/16/05
Posts: 5,617
Loc: PNW
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Re: Jesus [Re: falcon]
#8087966 - 02/29/08 09:20 PM (9 months, 11 hours ago) |
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If a cap is too yellow to tell, then I won't pick it to be on the safe side.
But what other amanitas can I mistake muscaria for? The ones I pick vary from darkish orange to bright bright red.
I've never been concerned about mushrooms poisoning because I'd always heard that you'd have to be a complete retard to mistake muscaria for anything else (except in the aforementioned case of yellow specimens).
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Bufotenin
PiHKAL|TiHKAL|PCPiHKAL|Rhodium
DMT Extraction|Jungle Spice|The FASA Method
Guide to Hunting Amanita
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falcon
Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 2,524
Last seen: 9 hours, 14 minutes
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A. parcivolvata for the reds ones comes to mind , also check out this link http://pluto.njcc.com/~ret/amanita/sectaman.html and this one, http://pluto.njcc.com/~ret/amanita/sectvali.html.
there are a lot that look similar.
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