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 Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,380
Loc: PNW
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 Re: What do you make of love? [Re: Chronic777]
#8085863 - 02/29/08 11:47 AM (9 months, 21 hours ago) |
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If everyone else confused rocks with bananas, would the rocks be bananas? Love is what it is, and no amount of human confusion will turn it into attachment.
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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 Chronic777
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 3,528
Loc: Unmoving Core
Last seen: 55 seconds
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: Veritas]
#8086032 - 02/29/08 12:43 PM (9 months, 20 hours ago) |
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I never disputed that?
Love is the driving force behind everything.
Everything also includes attachment. We attach because we want love.
Thats all i'm saying.
In the end if we cant find unconditional love for suffering/attachment itself and accept them then we're neglecting life as they are part of life, life is suffering.
Yet life is love.
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Know Thyself
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,817
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: gluke bastid]
#8086139 - 02/29/08 01:15 PM (9 months, 20 hours ago) |
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Quote:
gluke bastid said:
One of my favorite quotes is from a European Renaissance Poet whose name escapes me:
"Love is that which sets the enslaved free, and ties those who are free into bondage"
Yes, a quote from someone who doesn't know. Thanks for sharing.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” ~Stephen Roberts
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,817
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: Chronic777]
#8086153 - 02/29/08 01:17 PM (9 months, 20 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
Quote:
Icelander said:
I agree love is in a way opposite to attachment, but they are also very very hard to distinguish between,
For you maybe but I see no similarities between unconditional acceptance and addiction.
Its not about me im talking about the human race dude, we all see them as hard to distinguish between. On the whole the human race confuses love with attachment, they love what they're attached then what they're attached to dies, they suffer, we just think love not unconditional love, isn't about how i see it or you see it, its about how we see it.
If you can separate love and attachment in everyhting you do your a master of some sort in my eyes, well done!
Being/life is attachment, and being/life is also love embodied, this makes attachment easy to confuse with love.
We do what we love, and mostly we do this through attachment to it. If your totally free of all attachment seriously well done to you.
Who's we white man?
If you can separate love and attachment in everyhting you do your a master of some sort in my eyes, well done!
I can!
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” ~Stephen Roberts
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,817
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: Chronic777]
#8086159 - 02/29/08 01:19 PM (9 months, 20 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
I never disputed that?
Love is the driving force behind everything.
Everything also includes attachment. We attach because we want love.
Thats all i'm saying.
In the end if we cant find unconditional love for suffering/attachment itself and accept them then we're neglecting life as they are part of life, life is suffering.
Yet life is love.
Do you just make it up as you go along?
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” ~Stephen Roberts
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Chronic777
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 3,528
Loc: Unmoving Core
Last seen: 55 seconds
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: Icelander]
#8086282 - 02/29/08 01:55 PM (9 months, 19 hours ago) |
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lol if you think we're separate due to the colour of our skin i cant even continue this discussion.
you are soooo far from the truth if you think white/black are different.
well done for being able to separate love and attachment in everything you do, black man, i hope i one day can too.
and no i dont make anything up, love does it for me.
--------------------
Know Thyself
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 gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,217
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 10 hours, 29 minutes
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: Icelander]
#8086306 - 02/29/08 02:02 PM (9 months, 19 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
gluke bastid said:
One of my favorite quotes is from a European Renaissance Poet whose name escapes me:
"Love is that which sets the enslaved free, and ties those who are free into bondage"
Yes, a quote from someone who doesn't know. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for making this thread considerably more mundane with your lazy, half-assed critique. It's a lot faster than thinking isn't it?
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,590
Last seen: 4 months, 6 days
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: gluke bastid]
#8086319 - 02/29/08 02:06 PM (9 months, 19 hours ago) |
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,217
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 10 hours, 29 minutes
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Quote:
backfromthedead said:
 
Am I being out of line? I just don't appreciate personal attacks coupled with sarcasm and no comment whatsoever on the content of the quote I provided, which I think elegantly sums up a lot of what has already been said in this thread 
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,817
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: Chronic777]
#8086354 - 02/29/08 02:13 PM (9 months, 19 hours ago) |
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i cant even continue this discussion.
Promise.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” ~Stephen Roberts
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,380
Loc: PNW
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: gluke bastid]
#8086362 - 02/29/08 02:14 PM (9 months, 19 hours ago) |
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I think that he was saying that the author of your quote doesn't know, not that YOU don't know. Anyone who claims that love creates bondage in those who are free doesn't have a clue, IMO.
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 23,817
Loc: underbelly
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: gluke bastid]
#8086366 - 02/29/08 02:14 PM (9 months, 19 hours ago) |
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Thanks
You're welcome.
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What the thinker thinks, the prover proves. R.A.W.
I don't believe anything, but I have many suspicions. R.A.W.
“I contend we are both atheists, I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.” ~Stephen Roberts
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,380
Loc: PNW
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: Chronic777]
#8086370 - 02/29/08 02:16 PM (9 months, 19 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Chronic777 said:
lol if you think we're separate due to the colour of our skin i cant even continue this discussion.
you are soooo far from the truth if you think white/black are different.
well done for being able to separate love and attachment in everything you do, black man, i hope i one day can too.
and no i dont make anything up, love does it for me.
"Who's we, white man" is a famous line from a Native American character, and it means that one should not assume that they can generalize their own values and perceptions. 
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,217
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 10 hours, 29 minutes
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: Veritas]
#8086390 - 02/29/08 02:22 PM (9 months, 19 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
I think that he was saying that the author of your quote doesn't know, not that YOU don't know. Anyone who claims that love creates bondage in those who are free doesn't have a clue, IMO.
But that's not what the author claims. He claims it sets you free and holds you back, that it yields attachment and non-attachment simultaneously. It does both at once. It is a paradox. This has been my experience of love, God and non-attachment. Emphasis is constantly placed on love as a "positive" force. It makes you happy it sets you free. I am saying that love is so powerful a force that it sets you free and yet draws you into itself and destroys you. Love is deeply joyous and deeply painful...terrifying and terror-destroying at the same time. Love is Shiva the Destroyer and Krishna and Vishnu all at once, to rely on a Hindu metaphor.
--------------------
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,380
Loc: PNW
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: gluke bastid]
#8086399 - 02/29/08 02:24 PM (9 months, 18 hours ago) |
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I think that you are confusing love with obsession, dependence, attachment, neurosis & self-destructive tendencies.
IME, love is a joyful appreciation of existence. When we love someone, we are glad that they exist. When we are in a loving state, we are glad that we exist. When we muddy up our waters with the above-mentioned negative states, we are not in love OR loving.
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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Chronic777
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 3,528
Loc: Unmoving Core
Last seen: 55 seconds
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: Icelander]
#8086401 - 02/29/08 02:24 PM (9 months, 18 hours ago) |
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Icelander....
The comment you posted "whos we, white man"
Implies attachment to your race, and those outside of it are not "of you"
This just prooves you know nothing of love and attachment! lol well done, you showed your true colours!
--------------------
Know Thyself
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,380
Loc: PNW
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: Chronic777]
#8086407 - 02/29/08 02:26 PM (9 months, 18 hours ago) |
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Did you READ what I posted?
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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backfromthedead
Activated
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,590
Last seen: 4 months, 6 days
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: Veritas]
#8086410 - 02/29/08 02:27 PM (9 months, 18 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
Quote:
Chronic777 said:
lol if you think we're separate due to the colour of our skin i cant even continue this discussion.
you are soooo far from the truth if you think white/black are different.
well done for being able to separate love and attachment in everything you do, black man, i hope i one day can too.
and no i dont make anything up, love does it for me.
"Who's we, white man" is a famous line from a Native American character, and it means that one should not assume that they can generalize their own values and perceptions.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 10,380
Loc: PNW
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Yes, exactly. It's a saying, a pop culture reference, which obviously was entirely lost on the current audience.
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No man is free who is not master of himself.
~Epictetus.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,217
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 10 hours, 29 minutes
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Re: What do you make of love? [Re: Veritas]
#8086438 - 02/29/08 02:38 PM (9 months, 18 hours ago) |
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Quote:
Veritas said:
I think that you are confusing love with obsession, dependence, attachment, neurosis & self-destructive tendencies.
IME, love is a joyful appreciation of existence. When we love someone, we are glad that they exist. When we are in a loving state, we are glad that we exist. When we muddy up our waters with the above-mentioned negative states, we are not in love OR loving.
I completely understand what you are saying. I don't choose to draw lines in the same place that you are here, as I don't think the difference between attachment and joy are clear cut. Moments of pure non selfish love exist but the human tendency is to become greedy for joy, IMO. There is a stuggle in most people between these things and I like to think of love as containing both itself in a pure form and the seed of its own undoing. There is no sadness in this, or neurosis. To be in love or to be loving is to lose control, to hand oneself over without fear. Like a trip, if you try to control love it will turn away from you, it will get ugly. So it will set you free...if you understand what it is telling you.
Kahlil Gibrain put it this way:
Quote:
When love beckons to you, follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you.
And when he speaks to you believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams as the north wind lays waste the garden.
For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you. Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.
Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth.
Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.
He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant;
And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred bread for God's sacred feast.
All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart, and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life's heart.
But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor,
Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.
Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed;
For love is sufficient unto love.
When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," but rather, "I am in the heart of God."
And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself.
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.
To know the pain of too much tenderness.
To be wounded by your own understanding of love;
And to bleed willingly and joyfully.
To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving;
To rest at the noon hour and meditate love's ecstasy;
To return home at eventide with gratitude;
And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise upon your lips.
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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