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 Psiloman
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Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 1,116
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 5 months, 11 days
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 Re: Inducing polyploidy : A Simple Guide. (Make your own "species")  [Re: Psiloman]
#5066110 - 12/15/05 06:52 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have made the protocol plus some modifications in a PDF. Thanks to Enter for helping me on the PDF conversion.
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Wiccan_Seeker
gold foil hat admin
Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 29,714
Loc: Virgo Supercluster (or b...
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Re: Inducing polyploidy : A Simple Guide. (Make your own "species") [Re: Psiloman]
#5066187 - 12/15/05 07:31 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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The protocol looks good but it's prohibitively complicated. Not to you, not to me, but we'd be better served if there was a TEK alongside the protocol. This way you'd get more experimenters, and the results will speak for themselves.
Unfortunately most of us rarely have access to a biolab enviroment and there is the willingness to start an ambitious project that has to be taken into the equasion.
It's better that ten people try and five succeed than that one tries and succeeds.
A bit closer: are you certain that Salvia's infertility is due to problems directly related to gene pairing and not due to lets say a macroscopic feature obstructing the process?
Trifluralin dissolves very poorly in water. To remedy this (and later aid in permeation) trifluralin is first dissolved in DMSO and then this solution is dissolved in water to yield an ultrafine suspension which far more readily dissolves. This information is lacking. What's also lacking is a HAZMAT warning. Trifluralin has some rather nasty traits and Trifluralin in Dimethylsulfoxide is more hazardous.
Then there is the matter of alternative solutions
If you don't mind I'll have a go of a v1.1 to this manuscript and will post it for your approval. Let's all work up the version no. until we get one that satisfies all ^_^
The best possible software for text and creating PDF, which is free for download too, is OpenOffice which, I assure you, will be your favorite office product from now on.
If you want me to stay out of it, please say so. I'm working with you, don't see my intrusion as competitive. 
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Psiloman
member
Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 1,116
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 5 months, 11 days
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Re: Inducing polyploidy : A Simple Guide. (Make your own "species") [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#5066302 - 12/15/05 08:18 AM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ah of course! Thats why i put it up in the first place ,so people can comment,can make updates,deletions,additions etc .Heh ,basically its revisions of the document that i want to provoke so feel free to have as many goes at is as you want.
Quote:
A bit closer: are you certain that Salvia's infertility is due to problems directly related to gene pairing and not due to lets say a macroscopic feature obstructing the process?
The botany of salvia divinorum,that i found to be the most complete study on salvia's botany up to now points out that the problem could well be at the chromosome pairing.Mitosis seems to be going alright,but something happens during meiosis that leads to anomalous gametes.If im correct they mention that this trait has been observed in other hybrids in the past where chromosome homologosity is to blame when the whole gamete formation fails at meiosis stage.
Many tries have been made with hand pollination.A human pollinator i guess would bypass macroscopic barriers,as i can imagine that with such a problematic fertility-wise plant ,the pollinator wont leave the plant alone until he sees the pollen sticking firmly and coating the stigma of the flower.
So , i would bet money on it but not my head. As a sidenote : If the method fails seedwise the plant might still carry some of the interesting features polyploidy gives such as increased resistance,bigger plants etc...
Quote:
Trifluralin dissolves very poorly in water
Im aware of that.The guy hybridising the roses used a commercial brand which he diluted,no high tech stuff at this point.The plants covnerted nicely ( i think i gave the URL's from the rose forum they have some info).Something tells me ,since i didnt see him running into difficulties dissolving it that the commercial forms might include other substances to make it water soluble that dont seem to hurt the plant.
So ,bottom line you can of course further the PDF text!
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 World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Re: Inducing polyploidy : A Simple Guide. (Make your own "species") [Re: Psiloman]
#5071931 - 12/16/05 02:05 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm going to read this later tonight. Glad to see it was done though. Also, a "headline" might give it an extra snap. 
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Psiloman
member
Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 1,116
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 5 months, 11 days
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Re: Inducing polyploidy : A Simple Guide. (Make your own "species") [Re: World Spirit]
#5072063 - 12/16/05 02:38 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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"Headline"? Oh you mean centered bold letters...Hmm yes! Well ,anyone can make modifications,its released for revision and uncopyrighted!
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World Spirit
PNW
Registered: 07/27/01
Posts: 9,817
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Re: Inducing polyploidy : A Simple Guide. (Make your own "species") [Re: Psiloman]
#5072743 - 12/16/05 05:06 PM (6 years, 5 months ago) |
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I want to copyright it then, and charge you for viewing it.
/taxes the people of the shroomery
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Psiloman
member
Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 1,116
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 5 months, 11 days
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Re: Inducing polyploidy : A Simple Guide. (Make your own "species") [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#5901575 - 07/26/06 09:39 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Wiccan_Seeker said:
The protocol looks good but it's prohibitively complicated. Not to you, not to me, but we'd be better served if there was a TEK alongside the protocol. This way you'd get more experimenters, and the results will speak for themselves.
Unfortunately most of us rarely have access to a biolab enviroment and there is the willingness to start an ambitious project that has to be taken into the equasion.
It's better that ten people try and five succeed than that one tries and succeeds.
A bit closer: are you certain that Salvia's infertility is due to problems directly related to gene pairing and not due to lets say a macroscopic feature obstructing the process?
Trifluralin dissolves very poorly in water. To remedy this (and later aid in permeation) trifluralin is first dissolved in DMSO and then this solution is dissolved in water to yield an ultrafine suspension which far more readily dissolves. This information is lacking. What's also lacking is a HAZMAT warning. Trifluralin has some rather nasty traits and Trifluralin in Dimethylsulfoxide is more hazardous.
Then there is the matter of alternative solutions
If you don't mind I'll have a go of a v1.1 to this manuscript and will post it for your approval. Let's all work up the version no. until we get one that satisfies all ^_^
The best possible software for text and creating PDF, which is free for download too, is OpenOffice which, I assure you, will be your favorite office product from now on.
If you want me to stay out of it, please say so. I'm working with you, don't see my intrusion as competitive.
Any advancements on making it more "digestable" for public?
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StroFun
Repeater
Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 977
Loc: Mycotopia.net
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Re: Inducing polyploidy : A Simple Guide. (Make your own "species") *DELETED* [Re: Psiloman]
#5914518 - 07/30/06 08:39 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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Post deleted by StroFunReason for deletion: Certain moderators/admins are responsible for me removing any inkling of a legit contribution...
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Psiloman
member
Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 1,116
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 5 months, 11 days
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Re: Inducing polyploidy : A Simple Guide. (Make your own "species") [Re: StroFun]
#5918047 - 07/31/06 08:25 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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As with many interesting ideas that float around from time to time,it seems it stayed on the drawing board.
While people would appreciate the finished product of such an experiment or a kit doing it semiautomatically,they wouldnt appreciate experimentation on their own part. For the time being i dont have the supplies of carrying it out. Other people seem to have,to be also familiar with agar work ,actually being pretty advanced at it allowing for many kinds of experimentation,,but still noone seemed interested trying it.
It could be tried on many plants.Salvia is a first candidate,why not grafted williamsii on a pereskiopsis as a second one etc etc.
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Vertigo6911
Entheobotanist
Registered: 12/04/04
Posts: 1,834
Loc: Netherlands
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Re: Inducing polyploidy : A Simple Guide. (Make your own "species") [Re: Psiloman]
#5918295 - 07/31/06 10:34 AM (5 years, 9 months ago) |
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i am, and with some luck im landing a new job at an ethno farm.
theres a giant garden and a lab, and a boss who kinda looks like phineas from the freak brothers...
if it all works out this would be on the top of my list of edjucational projects there...
still i have to express my frustration about everybody and his uncle getting on board of the 'get some skank wile u still can' thread,
and not giving a flying fuck about this thread at the same time.
YOUR ALL A BUNCH OF SELFISH FUCKS!!!
(ok i know i should say it in that thread, but im still trying to score a clone there...)
but seriously, im getting tired of these selfrighteous hippochrits
who kick and scream when there high is taken away but arent willing to take any effort of take any chance to improve the situation byond what is needed to get loaded.
fucking hypochrits.
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-Know ye not that ye are gods?-
My homepage
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Psiloman
member
Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 1,116
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 5 months, 11 days
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Re: Inducing polyploidy : A Simple Guide. (Make your own "species") [Re: Psiloman]
#6041432 - 09/08/06 12:38 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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So up it goes for one more time,since some people might be interesting.
Last time i think wiccan seeker set out to revamp the method,or at list the text that describes it.Im quite confident he can produce good "leaflets",judging by other works he posted...
So ,lets see if we got any news.
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Taharka
The Root of the Problem
Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 682
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Re: Inducing polyploidy : A Simple Guide. (Make your own "species") [Re: Psiloman]
#6044334 - 09/09/06 12:43 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't mean to hijack this thread, but since we are talking about polyploidy:
I just noticed today that one of my Heimia myrtifolia has taken to polyploidy.
Here's a pic of the leaves on the polyploid stem. The stem itself is broad and flattened, about 5mm in width, but I couldn't get a picture because my shitty digi-cam's auto-focus wouldn't focus on it.
All of my Heimia are flowering right now, but only one plant is afflicted. I think the cause is some sort of disease or mutagen, because all five of the stem tips this one plant has are polyploid, but no other plants are. The mutated stems have many flowers. I'm assuming they'll be sterile?
Maybe I'll be able to get some better pictures tomorrow under different lighting.
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Psiloman
member
Registered: 04/11/03
Posts: 1,116
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 5 months, 11 days
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Re: Inducing polyploidy : A Simple Guide. (Make your own "species") [Re: Taharka]
#6123954 - 10/02/06 09:53 AM (5 years, 7 months ago) |
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Fnord
TWISTER FORMONEY, TWISTERFOR BLOOD!
Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 243
Loc: maine
Last seen: 3 years, 25 days
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Re: - [Re: pod3]
#7989640 - 02/06/08 09:42 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Blessed are they that run around in circles, for they shall be known as wheels.
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FarFromHere
~Teotzlcoatl~
Registered: 01/09/08
Posts: 926
Loc: The 7th Plane
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: - [Re: Fnord]
#7991255 - 02/07/08 10:24 AM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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...holy shit.
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"We are the one's we have been waiting for" -Hopi Proverb
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Fnord
TWISTER FORMONEY, TWISTERFOR BLOOD!
Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 243
Loc: maine
Last seen: 3 years, 25 days
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Quote:
FarFromHere said:
...holy shit.
So any ideas? i know inducing mutations in cacti around teh areola can cause massive pupping in pedros,so im assuming th same might hold tru for LW,thus if you grafted a peyote to a fast growing cacti tehn induced ploidy....
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Blessed are they that run around in circles, for they shall be known as wheels.
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Fnord
TWISTER FORMONEY, TWISTERFOR BLOOD!
Registered: 02/05/08
Posts: 243
Loc: maine
Last seen: 3 years, 25 days
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Re: Inducing polyploidy : A Simple Guide. (Make your own "species") [Re: Psiloman]
#7992006 - 02/07/08 01:41 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psiloman said:
Some links to consider :
http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/(i...nt&backto=issue,2,15;journal,42,74;linkingpublicationresults,1:103117,1#search="Effect%20of%20polyploidy%20on%20the%20alkaloid%20content"
http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0003-0147(198307)122%3A1<1%3APANIFP>2.0.CO%3B2-H
http://www.springerlink.com/content/j622787w84657117/
Thanks im getting the articals soon.
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Blessed are they that run around in circles, for they shall be known as wheels.
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Psiloman
member
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Posts: 1,116
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 5 months, 11 days
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Re: Inducing polyploidy : A Simple Guide. (Make your own "species") [Re: Fnord]
#7993122 - 02/07/08 05:47 PM (4 years, 3 months ago) |
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I wouldnt go with colchicine, plus i'd try to expose seedlings grafted to a pereskiopsis (if its for cacti) to the converting mixture.
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