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 hightimesreader
Half assed question asker
Registered: 07/18/06
Posts: 2,543
Loc: In the air conditioning
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 Tryptamine substrate question 
#7223494 - 07/25/07 05:39 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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I've read a bunch of old posts on how to add trytamine to mushrooms to increase potency but what about adding it to the substrate in a non active mushroom for their mycelium to colonize it? I was thinking about introducing Psilocybe feonescii (spelling? Pan. Maybe?) mycelium to phalaris grass mixed with cow poo so it's basically straw with trytamine. What does any one think about this?
HTR
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I'm hunting for The Following ethnos.
For experiments, hunting finds and any other contributions, check out My journal.
HTR
A new leaf turned over.. I'm too old for this shit.
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I2ancid
josh hartnett,movie star actor
Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 1,473
Loc: psycholand
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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seeing how the theory of why certain mushrooms produce tryptamines in the first place is for cell structure ballance I'd say unless the shroom your growing incorporates the use of the drug into its hierarchy of building blocks it uses to spread itself and experience life. Then you have little chnce of an active mushroom.
Most because adding plain ol tryptamine to the substrate wouldent warrant a chemical synthesis of it turning that precurser into psilocybin/psilocin due to the lack of need.
Perhaps psilocybin is created from a common chemical that is within all active mushroom substrates. When the tryptamine is introduced, that lets the mycellium skip a step of labored synthesis from whatever common chemical is within the psilocybe-based substrates.
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I went to st thomas and camped out ontop of the island... Despite my entire family being poor all my life, the land is priceless.
I was chased by haitians in the main city charlotte amalie when my girlfriend and I got some cocaine for free in a bar and mixed it with alcohol, to form a stronger drug. With such confidence at 2am, we walked the 4-5 or so miles down to the beach where the african slaves lie like lions waiting on tourist prey.
The war isen't on drugs... the war is on the causes that influence people to abuse drugs. drug-abuse is a by-product of the system and much like radioactive waste occurs from utilizing nuclear power, drug addicts with drug-problems will need to be properly disposed of, like the decaying radioactive waste produced from nuclear energy. -i2ancid
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BrandNoob
The REALAmerican Hero!
Registered: 07/15/07
Posts: 717
Loc: Potland, OR
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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I don't know anything about anything, but I'd like to see the results of your experiment. Pictures would be nice! I don't know exactly what chemical process produce the psilocybin and psilocin within the mushroom. It's something I would like to know more about. I have been lurking here for a while, and I see many posts concerning the increase of yield, but less about increasing potency. It is still a mystery to me!
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All posts were channeled through the user by typing the thoughts of telepathic beings. All photos are of paranormal origin and do not represent the physical world, as we know it. BrandNoob shall not be held accountable for the actions of deceased or hyperdimensional individuals.
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BrandNoob
The REALAmerican Hero!
Registered: 07/15/07
Posts: 717
Loc: Potland, OR
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
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 Re: Tryptamine substrate question [Re: I2ancid]
#7223580 - 07/25/07 06:06 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Oh, wow 12ancid. You're faster than me! Thank you!
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All posts were channeled through the user by typing the thoughts of telepathic beings. All photos are of paranormal origin and do not represent the physical world, as we know it. BrandNoob shall not be held accountable for the actions of deceased or hyperdimensional individuals.
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I2ancid
josh hartnett,movie star actor
Registered: 10/05/03
Posts: 1,473
Loc: psycholand
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: Tryptamine substrate question [Re: BrandNoob]
#7223605 - 07/25/07 06:14 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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I know that was poorly written, but some will get my point. I'm kinda drunk and typing sloppy
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I went to st thomas and camped out ontop of the island... Despite my entire family being poor all my life, the land is priceless.
I was chased by haitians in the main city charlotte amalie when my girlfriend and I got some cocaine for free in a bar and mixed it with alcohol, to form a stronger drug. With such confidence at 2am, we walked the 4-5 or so miles down to the beach where the african slaves lie like lions waiting on tourist prey.
The war isen't on drugs... the war is on the causes that influence people to abuse drugs. drug-abuse is a by-product of the system and much like radioactive waste occurs from utilizing nuclear power, drug addicts with drug-problems will need to be properly disposed of, like the decaying radioactive waste produced from nuclear energy. -i2ancid
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Acinaxuz
In SomnisVeritas.
Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 231
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Tryptamine substrate question [Re: I2ancid]
#7325952 - 08/23/07 01:02 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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This is kind of dragging up an old thread in more ways than one, but, I haven't been on in a while and I'm catching up!
here's a link to a previous thread that explains Rancid's post a bit further if you're looking for some research behind the ideas.
Previous Post
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:~:~:~:~{ * }~:~:~:~:{ * }:~:~:~:~{ * }~:~:~:~:
All posts are made with only the intent to entertain myself and should ONLY be read with the understanding that they are FICTICIOUS. I do not warrant information I provide for use in illegal activity of any kind nor do I condone it for any reason. Furthermore, I am not, I have never, nor will I in the future, take ANY part in illegal activites.
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 fastfred
Old Hand
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,242
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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> What does any one think about this?
You can't make a non-active mushroom active by adding tryptamine. There's just no biochemical pathway from tryptamine on.
TDC (tryptophan decarboxylase) genes are pretty common and tryptamine is going to be present already. If the mushroom had the machinery to make psilocin it would have already done so. Lack of tryptamine isn't going to be what stops it.
-FF
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Acinaxuz
In SomnisVeritas.
Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 231
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
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Re: Tryptamine substrate question [Re: fastfred]
#7326892 - 08/23/07 05:48 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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OOOOOH!
I completely missed the "non-active" part of the post. That's a horse of a different color!
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:~:~:~:~{ * }~:~:~:~:{ * }:~:~:~:~{ * }~:~:~:~:
All posts are made with only the intent to entertain myself and should ONLY be read with the understanding that they are FICTICIOUS. I do not warrant information I provide for use in illegal activity of any kind nor do I condone it for any reason. Furthermore, I am not, I have never, nor will I in the future, take ANY part in illegal activites.
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Blutjager
Inhuman
Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: Tryptamine substrate question [Re: Acinaxuz]
#7332758 - 08/25/07 10:52 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Acinaxuz said:That's a horse of a different color!
Yep,and a dead one at that 
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Cake makers please read this before you waste more time/effort >>
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6236058/an/0/page/0
My LC tek >> http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7320516/an/0/page/0
""THEY CAN NOT KILL ME,I STILL WALK THE EARTH,WEAKENED BUT ALIVE.THEY HAVE TAKEN ALL FROM ME BUT THE BEATING OF MY COLD DEAD HEART.
THEY WILL NOW LEARN OF FEAR,THESE MEWING BABIES WHO THOUGHT THEY COULD DESTROY ME.
I HAVE REGAINED MY POWERS AND SHALL COME TO THEM IN THE NIGHT........
MY VISITS SHALL NOT BE KIND !! ""
 BlutJager
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curenado
73rd Man
Registered: 04/01/03
Posts: 2,601
Loc: North Central Arkansas
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Tryptamine substrate question [Re: Blutjager]
#7332931 - 08/25/07 12:03 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) |
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We once covered a patch with these tall green grasses to protect it from intense sun. The grass kept drying and we just kept watering and adding more fresh.
It rotted to a very thin black surface layer and I couldn't swear by it but those mushrooms were amazing! Color, laughs, excellent visuals....we're pretty sure it was phalaris but not sure if that was a factor - but LOVELY!
I know we did not have the legendary "God Shroom" because we ate a lot more than 1/2 gram...
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Yours in the Natural State!
"The woods are lovely, dark and deep; but I have patches to keep, and jars to sterilize before I sleep...."
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devilgoob
Stranger
Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 9
Last seen: 4 years, 6 days
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well, i found something semi-interesting, apparently it can be done, but you have to have a tryptamine in the 4 position. I guess if you have 4HTP (hydroxytryptamine) instead of 5HTP, then the mycelium will put that chemical through a bio-hydrolosis and use it for 4-4 NN dimethyltryptamine production. this is the link, the shrooms measured 3.3% 4-NN dimethyltryptamine
I am skeptical, but has anyone use 4htp for nutrient?
Edited by devilgoob (01/06/08 03:31 PM)
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fastfred
Old Hand
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,242
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Tryptamine substrate question [Re: devilgoob]
#7842288 - 01/07/08 03:38 AM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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#1 4HTP is not readily available.
#2 Even if it were you'd simply be ending up with 4-Hydroxy-N,N-dimethyl-tryptamine (4-HO-DMT), which is already produced.
#3 To get 4-HO-DET as you suggest you would need to start with N,N-diethyltryptamine as in Gartz's paper. Good luck getting that.
#4 If you did obtain it you would end up producing a mix of the normal 4-HO-DMT and 4-HO-DET.
#5 4-HO-DET is less potent and produces more anxiety and side effects than 4-HO-DMT. There will be competitive inhibition, so you'll end up producing a less potent and less pleasurable substance at the expense of the more potent 4-HO-DMT.
#6 You don't seem to have a very good grasp of the chemistry involved. Making it the topic of your first two posts when the topic has already been beat to death is not the best way to start out.
You can read for days on this topic. It really has been thoroughly discussed. Once you catch up we can beat it around some more if you really want to.
-FF
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MYSTIQUE
Say Hi to the elves for me.
Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 1,763
Loc: Canada
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Re: Tryptamine substrate question [Re: Blutjager]
#7844891 - 01/07/08 05:17 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Blutjager said:
Quote:
Acinaxuz said:That's a horse of a different color!
Yep,and a dead one at that
hahaha
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Dont know what the fuck I just said? READ THIS
http://www.shroomery.org/5122/The-Shroomery-Mushroom-Glossary
I ain't a hippy but I'm covered in dirt
Sippin lots of mushroom tea in a tye-dye shirt
Chasin' the Grateful Dead, no shoes on my feet
Beggin' in the parking lot for something to eat,
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hightimesreader
Half assed question asker
Registered: 07/18/06
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Re: Tryptamine substrate question [Re: fastfred]
#7845145 - 01/07/08 06:10 PM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
#1 4HTP is not readily available.
#2 Even if it were you'd simply be ending up with 4-Hydroxy-N,N-dimethyl-tryptamine (4-HO-DMT), which is already produced.
#3 To get 4-HO-DET as you suggest you would need to start with N,N-diethyltryptamine as in Gartz's paper. Good luck getting that.
#4 If you did obtain it you would end up producing a mix of the normal 4-HO-DMT and 4-HO-DET.
#5 4-HO-DET is less potent and produces more anxiety and side effects than 4-HO-DMT. There will be competitive inhibition, so you'll end up producing a less potent and less pleasurable substance at the expense of the more potent 4-HO-DMT.
#6 You don't seem to have a very good grasp of the chemistry involved. Making it the topic of your first two posts when the topic has already been beat to death is not the best way to start out.
You can read for days on this topic. It really has been thoroughly discussed. Once you catch up we can beat it around some more if you really want to.
-FF
Or I COULD just ask a beaten horse question if i damn well please  ...
But siriously..
N,N, DMT is NOT that hard to come by..
Correct me if I'm wrong but can't 4-HO-DET be turned into 4-HO-DMT pretty easily as far as synthesis's' go?
HTR
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I'm hunting for The Following ethnos.
For experiments, hunting finds and any other contributions, check out My journal.
HTR
A new leaf turned over.. I'm too old for this shit.
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devilgoob
Stranger
Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 9
Last seen: 4 years, 6 days
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I knew 4-HO-DET was much less potent, but since it produces anxiety then scratch any idea involving it. I don't have to have a good grasp on chemistry, it says it all in the article, and I believe it, have you read it, or have you scoffed at anything to do with it since you've seen countless questions and answers that don't work on it?
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If you have a bunch of shrooms, dont eat a "bunch" of a bunch of shrooms.
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fastfred
Old Hand
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,242
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Tryptamine substrate question [Re: devilgoob]
#7852281 - 01/09/08 02:25 AM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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> Correct me if I'm wrong but can't 4-HO-DET be turned into 4-HO-DMT pretty easily as far as synthesis's' go?
I don't think so. That would involve breaking C-C bonds without messing up your N. Likely a difficult synth.
Quote:
devilgoob said:
I don't have to have a good grasp on chemistry, it says it all in the article, and I believe it, have you read it, or have you scoffed at anything to do with it since you've seen countless questions and answers that don't work on it?
Did you even read my post? I outlined a handful of flaws in your plan and not one of them had anything to do with doubting Gartz's paper.
Again, I'm not scoffing at anything. I'm just pointing out that the subject has been discussed plenty. People are tired of hearing about it because nobody ever does anything except talk about it. So nobody is going to have much to say about your post, but if you want to read up on the topic there are volumes of long and in-depth posts.
Use the search feature. You can even search my username as I've posted quite a bit in a lot of the "adding tryptamines to substrate" threads.
If you're looking for an answer to your question... Sure it can be done, but how are you going to get the chems and what's the point?
-FF
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Mr E Guest
partly animal
Registered: 05/11/07
Posts: 624
Loc: 404: not found 
Last seen: 23 days, 8 hours
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Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but can't 4-HO-DET be turned into 4-HO-DMT pretty easily as far as synthesis's' [hint: try "syntheses"] go?
HTR
It would not be as easy as just growing some 4-OH-DMT containing mushrooms, to attempt the chemical conversion speculated on above. I could go into the possibilities but it would be a waste of time here. Please learn some chemistry rather than mindlessly/pointlessly speculating about it. And I've noticed this isn't really "Advanced Mycology" again, is it? (But where else can one talk about biochemistry?)
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Never underestimate the power of a fool.
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Dogma is the ONLY WAY.
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Votes accepted from (01/15/08 09:55 AM) to (01/15/09 09:55 AM)
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Edited by Mr E Guest (01/24/08 07:30 PM)
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Mr E Guest
partly animal
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Re: Tryptamine substrate question [Re: fastfred]
#7882766 - 01/15/08 10:09 AM (4 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
> Correct me if I'm wrong but can't 4-HO-DET be turned into 4-HO-DMT pretty easily as far as synthesis's' go?
I don't think so. That would involve breaking C-C bonds without messing up your N. Likely a difficult synth.
FF
The diethylamine moiety could be removed via quaternization and a dimethylamine moiety added in its place. Easier than swapping ethyl for methyl any other way. But I'd hate to think what might have happened to the somewhat fragile 4-OH-indole portion of the molecule during this process.
Oops! I said I wouldn't write about chemistry and now look what I've done. Must be OCD - wasn't there a clinical trial on the use of 4-OH-DMT or its phosphoric acid ester to treat OCD? (Sorry, look who's off topic now!)
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Be joyful. This could be the only chance you get.
All of the above posts are the fevered imaginings of a deluded mind, itself entirely the fictional creation of a somewhat peculiar author with a bizarre sense of humour.
Edited by Mr E Guest (01/24/08 07:24 PM)
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