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 Cubie
El. S. De.
Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 1,498
Loc: Down the rabbit hole...
Last seen: 9 days, 18 hours
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 Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: Cubie]
#7870566 - 01/12/08 07:43 PM (10 months, 17 days ago) |
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Well I mean witness reports, documentrys, n stuff like roswell. Noone "knows" for sure but when has our government NOT lied to us?
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Cepheus
Balance
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 5,190
Loc: the space between reality...
Last seen: 3 hours, 9 minutes
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: Cubie]
#7874550 - 01/13/08 05:45 PM (10 months, 16 days ago) |
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Gravity is a weird one.. we touched on it in the physics class I'm taking.. When people talk about gravitational potential, according to this formula; GM[1/r1-1/r2], theres an absolute limit at infinite: -62.6MJ
Then as the gravitational potential approaches zero the gravitational force is really strong..
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Cepheus
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" ~ Aldous Huxley.
 "The sun may set in the west, but it will always rise again in the east the next morning"
Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution 
Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux
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Annom
※※※※※※
Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 5,292
Loc: sdnalrehteN ehT
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: Cepheus]
#7875007 - 01/13/08 07:14 PM (10 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
When people talk about gravitational potential, according to this formula; GM[1/r1-1/r2], theres an absolute limit at infinite: -62.6MJ
Then as the gravitational potential approaches zero the gravitational force is really strong..
That's incorrect. There is a limit for gravitational potential at infinity = 0. It becomes more negative when you approach, for example, Earth. The maximum (negative) potential energy on the surface of the earth is -62.6MJ.
When using potential, the absolute number is of little importance, it is the slope of the potential hill that gives the gravitational force.
You can add a constant to your formula, Up = GM[1/r1-1/r2]+U0, and this wouldn't change the forces derived from it. When this constant is set to 0, the formula corresponds to a potential at infinity of 0. This is what is done in orbital mechanics.
The gradient of the scaler field(gravitational potential) is a vector field(gravitational force field). This defines potential energy.
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe
Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 2,238
Last seen: 13 hours, 55 minutes
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: honeypotty]
#7875111 - 01/13/08 07:32 PM (10 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
honeypotty said:
In spite of what it sez on star trek there is no sign of any way of travelling faster than light. And because of basic fizziks it aint likely we'll go faster than maybe 100,000mph. So getting to nearby stars is, like, out of the question. People wanna believe there's gonna be some star trek someday but it ain't on. We R stuck here. So party like its 1999.
No, no, no!
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"The universe is honest, humanity is not." - A star
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe
Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 2,238
Last seen: 13 hours, 55 minutes
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: Cubie]
#7875143 - 01/13/08 07:36 PM (10 months, 16 days ago) |
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Does anybody here know anything about Lockheed Martin?
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"The universe is honest, humanity is not." - A star
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Ginseng1
Elegant Universe
Registered: 09/02/04
Posts: 2,238
Last seen: 13 hours, 55 minutes
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: Ginseng1]
#7875188 - 01/13/08 07:42 PM (10 months, 16 days ago) |
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There is an instantaneous interconnectedness with everything that exists at all times.
Everything is one. Anything is possible.
The formless substance of the universe can give heed to any possibility so long as it is created. Through vision and through action. Anything can be.
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"The universe is honest, humanity is not." - A star
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Cubie
El. S. De.
Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 1,498
Loc: Down the rabbit hole...
Last seen: 9 days, 18 hours
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: Ginseng1]
#7875351 - 01/13/08 08:01 PM (10 months, 16 days ago) |
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I agree
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learningtofly
Stranger
Registered: 05/21/07
Posts: 2,435
Last seen: 8 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: Cubie]
#7876522 - 01/14/08 12:05 AM (10 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
Cubie said:
It was based ón Reality. Really, look it up
I am interested in this, plz provide link to this ship that teleported.
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GnuBobo said:
You're a stupid hippie. That's my point.
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Cubie
El. S. De.
Registered: 01/11/08
Posts: 1,498
Loc: Down the rabbit hole...
Last seen: 9 days, 18 hours
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: learningtofly]
#7876573 - 01/14/08 12:13 AM (10 months, 16 days ago) |
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http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_293.html
Goggle Philadelphia experiment there's a million sites
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RuNE
bomberman
Registered: 09/23/00
Posts: 2,241
Loc: tartarus
Last seen: 4 days, 19 hours
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: honeypotty]
#7877435 - 01/14/08 08:59 AM (10 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
honeypotty said:
In spite of what it sez on star trek there is no sign of any way of travelling faster than light. And because of basic fizziks it aint likely we'll go faster than maybe 100,000mph. So getting to nearby stars is, like, out of the question. People wanna believe there's gonna be some star trek someday but it ain't on. We R stuck here. So party like its 1999.
Excuse me dear sir. Did you just fucking say 'fizziks'?
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~Happy sailing~
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Annom
※※※※※※
Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 5,292
Loc: sdnalrehteN ehT
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: RuNE]
#7877451 - 01/14/08 09:06 AM (10 months, 16 days ago) |
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 trendal
point of inflection
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 17,687
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: honeypotty]
#7877452 - 01/14/08 09:07 AM (10 months, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
honeypotty said:
In spite of what it sez on star trek there is no sign of any way of travelling faster than light. And because of basic fizziks it aint likely we'll go faster than maybe 100,000mph. So getting to nearby stars is, like, out of the question. People wanna believe there's gonna be some star trek someday but it ain't on. We R stuck here. So party like its 1999.
Actually...they don't actually travel faster than the speed of light, at least not locally.
A "warp drive" is a theoretical possibility.
What happens is the warp drive "compresses" the space in front of the ship while "expanding" the space behind it. Then the ship just moves along with their "impulse drive" which only moves the ship at speeds below the speed of light. Because of the compression of space ahead of the ship, the ship is able to move much slower than c locally (say, half the speed of light) but moves much faster than c over long distances (again, dues to the compression/expansion of space around the ship).
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You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 13,991
Last seen: 3 hours, 46 minutes
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: trendal]
#7877547 - 01/14/08 09:40 AM (10 months, 15 days ago) |
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I am a hopeless optimist when it comes to the abilities of science.
I wholeheartedly believe, admittedly w/out any evidence, that FTL travel is possible and will be achieved at some point in the relatively near future. (Few hundred years?)
Don't ask me why, just eternal optimism in the ability of combined intellects to solve problems that seemed impossible to earlier peoples.
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Cepheus
Balance
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 5,190
Loc: the space between reality...
Last seen: 3 hours, 9 minutes
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: Annom]
#7877827 - 01/14/08 11:21 AM (10 months, 15 days ago) |
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We were taught that you start at infinite and count backwards.. an inverse scale.. it had a special name, I can't remember what.. its been a while.
For the earth the Limit for the gravitational potential was -62.6MJ.
->
G = gravitational constant, M = mass of earth, R = radius of earth
-(6.67x10^-11)x(5.97x10^24)[1/6.38x10^6 - 1/infinite]
= -62.414x10^6 J.
At the center of earth (i.e a radius of zero) to a distance of infinite, the gravitational potential become GM[1/0 - 1/infinite]
I might just have my shit hella confused, but still I'm gonna try and argue 
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Cepheus
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" ~ Aldous Huxley.
"The sun may set in the west, but it will always rise again in the east the next morning"
Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution
Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: Madtowntripper]
#7878392 - 01/14/08 01:41 PM (10 months, 15 days ago) |
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I wholeheartedly believe, admittedly w/out any evidence, that FTL travel is possible and will be achieved at some point
You're thinking that a technological advance will allow FTL. As far as we know, this is not a limitation of our technology, but a fundamental property of the universe (like arythmatic) that no technological advance can bypass.
What you're saying is logically equivalent to the following statement:
I wholeheartedly believe, admittedly w/out any evidence, that one day a technology will exist that will permit one to place 2 apples in an empty box, then add (arythmetic) 2 more apples, and the result of that addition will be 7 apples in the previously-empty box.
See the problem with that statement? Technology can advance without bound, but it can never bypass the rules of arythmetic. 2 + 2 will always equal 4, and never 7, no matter how many advances we make.
But, I NEVER say never (except to illustrate a piont ^^^). That word is profanity to a scientist. That's why I like to say almost-certainly never. 
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of three Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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Cepheus
Balance
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 5,190
Loc: the space between reality...
Last seen: 3 hours, 9 minutes
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: Diploid]
#7878554 - 01/14/08 02:17 PM (10 months, 15 days ago) |
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Heh I wonder what you were going on about with 'arythmetic'
Maths is a language we have developed to describe phenomena... as we evolve, it evolves. However, as it was designed by us, as part of the system we are trying to describe, there are many fundamental limitations to our understanding. Its like the eye trying to perceive itself, or thinking about thinking...
Any knowledge we do have of our universe is interpreted by us and applied to our situation.. This is why we base everything we know on models of reality.. we are unable to to view the universe in such a way that allows us to see the whole picture, so we create models of situations and dismantle them, factor by factor, until we have a concept of the underlying principles.
My point being, that no man made discovery is a universal truth. Maths is simply our way of describing phenomena.. The probability of 2+2 equaling 4 is very likely, however, depending on the on situation at hand, I imagine there is some circumstance in this vastness of unpredictability that allows for 2+2 = 7.
<3 statistics 
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Cepheus
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored" ~ Aldous Huxley.
"The sun may set in the west, but it will always rise again in the east the next morning"
Free Spore Ring Europe
Send any spare spore prints you might have and help the distribution
Open Source. Freedom. GNU/Linux
|
Annom
※※※※※※
Registered: 12/22/02
Posts: 5,292
Loc: sdnalrehteN ehT
Last seen: 18 hours, 53 minutes
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: Cepheus]
#7878653 - 01/14/08 02:50 PM (10 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
At the center of earth (i.e a radius of zero) to a distance of infinite, the gravitational potential become GM[1/0 - 1/infinite]
Yes, so the gravitational potential would go to infinity when the radius of earth would go to 0. (you would also have to compress all mass of earth into a singularity, digging a tunnel in earth to get a smaller r doesn't work).
I think we think the same now
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Madtowntripper
Sun-Beams out of Cucumbers
Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 13,991
Last seen: 3 hours, 46 minutes
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: Diploid]
#7878846 - 01/14/08 03:41 PM (10 months, 15 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
You're thinking that a technological advance will allow FTL. As far as we know, this is not a limitation of our technology, but a fundamental property of the universe (like arythmatic) that no technological advance can bypass.
I understand this. I absolutely agree with you that this seems impossible, given our current understanding of physics. But I am not so vain as to think that everything we know now is correct. It seems correct, but who is to tell what future discoveries will be?
I find it entirely plausible that at some point in the future we will be able to pull, poke, prod, or otherwise cause the laws of physics to bend to our will.
Obviously, this is conjecture. But I have great faith in the ability of the human intellect.
Quote:
But, I NEVER say never (except to illustrate a piont ^^^). That word is profanity to a scientist. That's why I like to say almost-certainly never.
What's the old saying?
Quote:
"When an old and respected scientist says that something is impossible, he is almost certainly wrong. When the same scientist says that something is possible, he is almost certainly correct."
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karma35
Stranger
Registered: 09/07/07
Posts: 21
Last seen: 8 months, 17 days
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Re: does "gravity" (whatever gravity is) insinuate the possibility of instantaneous interstellar tra [Re: honeypotty]
#7881694 - 01/15/08 03:26 AM (10 months, 15 days ago) |
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I think your estimate is a tad on the low side... The Voyager spacecraft sent up the the 70s left the solar system traveling over 35,000 mph. I'm pretty sure we can cross 100,000. :-)
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