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 trendal
point of inflection
 
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 17,687
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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 Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: Seuss]
#7777492 - 12/19/07 12:27 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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I think that it is irrelevant whether we are causing Global Warming to occur...because it is occurring.
The Earth is heating up, that much is not in question.
So why not do something about it?
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You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.
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Silversoul
PleromaticExplorer
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 15,297
Loc: Mostly harmless
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: trendal]
#7777512 - 12/19/07 12:35 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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Well, I think it's relevant if we're contributing to it, because that means we can take action to reduce those activities which release large amounts of greenhouse gases. There are several proposals on how to actually reverse global warming, but many of them are rather rash moves that should really be used only as a last resort. The one idea I've seen that does look promising is "artificial trees." Not like the plastic trees you get for Christmas. In fact, they look nothing like trees. But they take in as much CO2 from the air in a year as an average tree would take in 100 years.
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"I happen to be the CEO of the Committee for Surrealist Investigation of Claims of the Normal, and we actually are offering $10,000 to anybody who can produce anything that is totally normal in all respects, or even average." -- Robert Anton Wilson
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 zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 12,229
Last seen: 10 hours, 24 minutes
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: Silversoul]
#7777545 - 12/19/07 12:46 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
"All these peer-reviewed scientific journal articles" (disagree that global warming is pseudo scientific mumbo jumbo). One out of one that I reviewed didn't say that at all.
Actually, it implicitly agreed with my statement. Others explicitly state the case. Find me one out of those search results that actually affirms the quoted statement, and quit being so fucking dishonest.
You fail to understand that the study I mentioned, which was at the top of your search page, DOES NOT even research global warming. They are studying something else entirely, i.e. species change due to climate change. I bet the "peer reviewed" hockey stick is in there too somewhere. That was peer reviewed, alright. And obliterated. Buy a clue.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 2,217
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 hours, 28 minutes
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: Seuss]
#7777599 - 12/19/07 01:00 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
> Climate change is a much more vague term and thus harder to refute.
No, dynamic climate change is the term used by science since the dawn of meterology. Global warming is a term created by the globalists to scare people into thinking an unnatural change in climate is underway.
Actually, you are totally wrong. Global Warming is a term that refers to any period in which the temperature of the earth is rising. There have been periods of global warming and cooling and occurring since there was an atmosphere. You are unwittingly buying into an anti-scientist, anti-logic rhetoric by trying to deflate the term's meaning. It means exactly what it sounds like it means. The atmosphere getting warmer on a global scale.
Quote:
> I'd like to see you refute global warming
The theory of global warming is based almost entirely on extrapolation.
The observation that we are currently experiencing global warming has been proven thousands of times, even before there was a concern about whether this was a problem or not. The theory that post-industrial human activity and the emission of C02 are speeding up global warming is based on the fact that CO2 (which is created when fossil fuels are burned) is a greenhouse gas that traps heat in our atmosphere, wihtout which the surface of the earth would be a frozen wasteland. This theory cannot be proven because it is the nature of theories that they are unprovable. Darwin's theory of evolution can't be proven because it is a theory, but it sure does explain a hell of a lot of things.
However the fact that the planet is currently getting warmer is fact. I again assert my challenge for anyone to refute it.
Quote:
I won't argue that the earth's climate is warming,
Then you agree that global warming is currently what is happening in the atmosphere.
Quote:
but any claim that the warming is unnatural or man-caused is nothing more than a guess based upon extrapolated data.
Very true. For the record I am not an alarmist. I am an environmentalist, but not because I think that if we stop driving cars or burning oil it will stop global warming or that it will be the difference between a healthy ecosystem and a damaged one. However, one has to stay consistent and acknowledge scientific fact. It is true that we can't say that the cause of global warming is anthropogenic because that can't be proven. However it is misleading to not point out some other concepts:
1) We also can't say that humans aren't the cause of global warming to some extent. It is equally unprovable. So anytime someone comes along (scientist, politician or layperson) saying they can prove that humans aren't contributing to global warming, ask them to peddle their snake juice elsewhere.
2) CO2 IS a greenhouse gas. Unlease you don't believe that greenhouse gases regulate the temperature of our climate (in which case you might as well join the flat earth society), it stands to reason that the more CO2 we have in our atmosphere, the greater the effect. This fact proves nothing, but it should never be ignored.
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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Luddite
fossil fool
Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1,761
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#7778086 - 12/19/07 03:09 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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http://www.protestwarrior.com/
http://www.thepeoplescube.com
http://www.geocities.com/sciliterature/Climate.htm
  
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 10,936
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 10 hours, 22 minutes
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: gluke bastid]
#7778538 - 12/19/07 05:26 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
2) CO2 IS a greenhouse gas. Unlease you don't believe that greenhouse gases regulate the temperature of our climate (in which case you might as well join the flat earth society), it stands to reason that the more CO2 we have in our atmosphere, the greater the effect. This fact proves nothing, but it should never be ignored.
There are three kinds of curves to consider, though -- arithmetic, geometric, and logarithmic. The thing is, absorption of infrared by CO2 is a logarithmic function. Most of the absorption occurs with the first little bit of gas present, with each additional doubling of concentration yielding smaller and smaller absorption. Doubling the current concentration of CO2 would result in almost no further absorption. In fact, there are some scientists who say the point of maximum absorption has already been passed, at least in regards to CO2. It certainly has been passed with water vapor and oxygen. There comes a point at which the concentration of a greenhouse gas is sufficiently high that all radiation at the affected wavelengths are blocked.
So no, it does not necessarily stand to reason that the more CO2 in the atmosphere the greater the effect.
Phred
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 10,936
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 10 hours, 22 minutes
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: trendal]
#7778555 - 12/19/07 05:32 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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trendal writes:
Quote:
The Earth is heating up, that much is not in question.
So why not do something about it?
1 -- Because if the Earth is heating at all, it is just barely heating (one degree fahrenheit in a century is peanuts)
2 -- Who is to say the ideal temperature is what it was a century ago as opposed to today or three centuries ago or a millenium ago?
3 -- The proposed "solutions" are of much greater potential harm to humanity than the supposed "problem". Money wasted on unnecessary "just in case it really is our fault the Earth is getting warmer" programs is money that is better spent addressing real environmental and developmental problems
4) -- We can't stop it anyway
Phred
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: lonestar2004]
#7778593 - 12/19/07 05:44 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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This Global cooling is being caused by GLOBAL WARMING!!!
Never mess with a person’s religion.
To be fair, this is plausible. The Earth is a complicated system and sometimes reacts in unintuitive ways.
A warmer Earth results in more water vapor in the air and then more clouds reflecting sunlight. This can result in locally lower temperatures even though overall average temperature is increasing.
For the record, I'm convinced the Earth is warming, but I'm not convinced it is anthropogenic because the Earth has been a lot warmer and the atmosphere has had a lot more CO2 in it many times in the past before human industry.
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of three Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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Zepplin
journeyman
Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 560
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#7778712 - 12/19/07 06:14 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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We're all doomed.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 6,724
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 10 hours, 24 minutes
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: Phred]
#7778721 - 12/19/07 06:16 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Phred said:
trendal writes:
Quote:
The Earth is heating up, that much is not in question.
So why not do something about it?
1 -- Because if the Earth is heating at all, it is just barely heating (one degree fahrenheit in a century is peanuts)
2 -- Who is to say the ideal temperature is what it was a century ago as opposed to today or three centuries ago or a millenium ago?
3 -- The proposed "solutions" are of much greater potential harm to humanity than the supposed "problem". Money wasted on unnecessary "just in case it really is our fault the Earth is getting warmer" programs is money that is better spent addressing real environmental and developmental problems
4) -- We can't stop it anyway
Phred
buttttt it FEELS soooooooo good to save the earth!
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 6,724
Loc: South Texas
Last seen: 10 hours, 24 minutes
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: Diploid]
#7778735 - 12/19/07 06:20 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
For the record, I'm convinced the Earth is warming, but I'm not convinced it is anthropogenic because the Earth has been a lot warmer and the atmosphere has had a lot more CO2 in it many times in the past before human industry.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 1,842
Loc: God Bless America
Last seen: 10 hours, 17 minutes
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: Silversoul]
#7778738 - 12/19/07 06:20 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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Here is some very interesting information not from a conservative think tank:
http://www.reason.com/blog/show/123403.html
Are Bacteria the Cause of Global Warming?
Ronald Bailey | November 8, 2007, 4:11pm
A new report in the Journal of Geoclimatic Studies by researchers from the University of Arizona and the University of Goteborg in Sweden argues that benthic bacteria are responsible for increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide. According to the abstract:
It is now well-established that rising global temperatures are largely the result of increasing concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. The "consensus" position attributes the increase in atmospheric CO2 to the combustion of fossil fuels by industrial processes. This is the mechanism which underpins the theory of manmade global warming.
Our data demonstrate that those who subscribe to the consensus theory have overlooked the primary source of carbon dioxide emissions. While a small part of the rise in emissions is attributable to industrial activity, it is greatly outweighed (by >300 times) by rising volumes of CO2 produced by saprotrophic eubacteria living in the sediments of the continental shelves fringing the Atlantic and Pacific oceans. Moreover, the bacterial emissions, unlike industrial CO2, precisely match the fluctuations in global temperature over the past 140 years.
This paper also posits a mechanism for the increase in bacterial CO2 emissions. A series of natural algal blooms, beginning in the late 19th Century, have caused mass mortality among the bacteria's major predators: brachiopod molluscs of the genus Tetrarhynchia. These periods of algal bloom, as the palaeontological record shows, have been occurring for over three million years, and are always accompanied by a major increase in carbon dioxide emissions, as a result of the multiplication of bacteria when predator pressure is reduced. They generally last for 150-200 years. If the current episode is consistent with this record, we should expect carbon dioxide emissions to peak between now and mid-century, then return to background levels. Our data suggest that current concerns about manmade global warming are unfounded.
This is a rather sweeping conclusion from research published in a minor journal and will likely produce howls of outrage from defenders of the consensus. Only further research and time will tell if these guys are on to something significant or if they have somehow misinterpreted what they believe they have discovered.
Disturbingly, the article suggests that efforts were made to suppress their findings. Of course, what they are interpreting as suppression might be well-intended advice by colleagues telling them not to make fools of themselves. Or it might be something worse? Here is what they have to say:
It was not our intention in researching this issue to disprove manmade global warming theory. We have received no funds, directly or indirectly, from fossil fuel companies and have no personal interest in the outcome of the debate. We simply noticed an anomaly in the figures used by those who accept the "consensus" position on climate change and sought to investigate it. But the findings presented in this paper could not be more damaging to manmade global warming theory or to the thousands of climate scientists who have overlooked - sometimes, we fear, deliberately - the anomaly. We have found a near-perfect match between the levels of carbon dioxide produced by benthic eubacteria and recent global temperature records. By contrast we note what must be obvious to all those who have studied the figures with an open mind: a very poor match between carbon dioxide produced by burning fossil fuels and recent global temperature records.
Moreover we note that there is no possible mechanism by which industrial emissions could have caused the recent temperature increase, as they are two orders of magnitude too small to have exerted an effect of this size. We have no choice but to conclude that the recent increase in global temperatures, which has caused so much disquiet among policy makers, bears no relation to industrial emissions, but is in fact a natural phenomenom.
These findings place us in a difficult position. We feel an obligation to publish, both in the cause of scientific objectivity and to prevent a terrible mistake - with extremely costly implications - from being made by the world's governments. But we recognise that in doing so, we lay our careers on the line. As we have found in seeking to broach this issue gently with colleagues, and in attempting to publish these findings in other peer-reviewed journals, the "consensus" on climate change is enforced not by fact but by fear. We have been warned, collectively and individually, that in bringing our findings to public attention we are not only likely to be deprived of all future sources of funding, but that we also jeopardise the funding of the departments for which we work.
We believe that academic intimidation of this kind contradicts the spirit of open enquiry in which scientific investigations should be conducted. We deplore the aggressive responses we encountered before our findings were published, and fear the reaction this paper might provoke. But dangerous as these findings are, we feel we have no choice but to publish.
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I will not fear
Fear is the mindkiller,
Fear is the little death
That brings total Oblivion
I will permit my fear to pass
Over me and through me
And where it has gone
I will turn the inner eye
Nothing will be there
Only I will remain
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth
Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 12,737
Loc: Some Refugee Camp near Ch...
Last seen: 1 hour, 25 minutes
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: SirTripAlot]
#7778772 - 12/19/07 06:26 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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Wow, ive never heard of this theory, pretty interesting 
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The white man can never win another war on the ground. His days of war, victory, his reign -- his days of ground victory are over. Can I prove it? Yes. Take all the action that's going on this earth right now that he's involved in -- tell me where he's winning. Nowhere.
Why some rice farmers -- some rice eaters ran him out of Korea. Yes, they ran him out of Korea. Rice eaters with nothing but gym shoes, and a rifle, and a bowl of rice took him and his tanks and his napalm, and all that other action he's supposed to have and ran him across the Yalu. Why? 'Cause the day that he can win on the ground has passed.
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Silversoul
PleromaticExplorer
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 15,297
Loc: Mostly harmless
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: SirTripAlot]
#7778837 - 12/19/07 06:41 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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Interesting article, but have they considered whether or not the algal blooms are caused by rising temperatures? I'm no biologist, but I seem to remember something about algal blooms happening in warm weather. This may simply be yet another symptom of the runaway greenhouse effect. Rising temperatures --> More greenhouse gases --> Further temperature increase
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"I happen to be the CEO of the Committee for Surrealist Investigation of Claims of the Normal, and we actually are offering $10,000 to anybody who can produce anything that is totally normal in all respects, or even average." -- Robert Anton Wilson
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 12,229
Last seen: 10 hours, 24 minutes
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: Silversoul]
#7778909 - 12/19/07 06:52 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
I'm no biologist,
True
Quote:
but I seem to remember something about algal blooms happening in warm weather. This may simply be yet another symptom of the runaway greenhouse effect. Rising temperatures --> More greenhouse gases --> Further temperature increase
Which is why the earth is currently 500 degrees celsius, because it really is a VISCOUS CYCLE that only goes up.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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Silversoul
PleromaticExplorer
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 15,297
Loc: Mostly harmless
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
#7778923 - 12/19/07 06:54 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Which is why the earth is currently 500 degrees celsius, because it really is a VISCOUS CYCLE that only goes up.
I may not be a biologist, but you're no logician either.
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"I happen to be the CEO of the Committee for Surrealist Investigation of Claims of the Normal, and we actually are offering $10,000 to anybody who can produce anything that is totally normal in all respects, or even average." -- Robert Anton Wilson
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: SirTripAlot]
#7778991 - 12/19/07 07:08 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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Are Bacteria the Cause of Global Warming?
No no. It's cow farts causing global warming! 
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Rearing cattle produces more greenhouse gases than driving cars, UN report warns
29 November 2006 – Cattle-rearing generates more global warming greenhouse gases, as measured in CO2 equivalent, than transportation, and smarter production methods, including improved animal diets to reduce enteric fermentation and consequent methane emissions, are urgently needed, according to a new United Nations report released today.
“Livestock are one of the most significant contributors to today’s most serious environmental problems,” senior UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) official Henning Steinfeld said. “Urgent action is required to remedy the situation.”
Cattle-rearing is also a major source of land and water degradation, according to the FAO report, Livestock’s Long Shadow–Environmental Issues and Options, of which Mr. Steinfeld is the senior author.
“The environmental costs per unit of livestock production must be cut by one half, just to avoid the level of damage worsening beyond its present level,” it warns.
When emissions from land use and land use change are included, the livestock sector accounts for 9 per cent of CO2 deriving from human-related activities, but produces a much larger share of even more harmful greenhouse gases. It generates 65 per cent of human-related nitrous oxide, which has 296 times the Global Warming Potential (GWP) of CO2. Most of this comes from manure.
And it accounts for respectively 37 per cent of all human-induced methane (23 times as warming as CO2), which is largely produced by the digestive system of ruminants, and 64 per cent of ammonia, which contributes significantly to acid rain.
With increased prosperity, people are consuming more meat and dairy products every year, the report notes. Global meat production is projected to more than double from 229 million tonnes in 1999/2001 to 465 million tonnes in 2050, while milk output is set to climb from 580 to 1043 million tonnes.
The global livestock sector is growing faster than any other agricultural sub-sector. It provides livelihoods to about 1.3 billion people and contributes about 40 per cent to global agricultural output. For many poor farmers in developing countries livestock are also a source of renewable energy for draft and an essential source of organic fertilizer for their crops.
Livestock now use 30 per cent of the earth’s entire land surface, mostly permanent pasture but also including 33 per cent of the global arable land used to producing feed for livestock, the report notes. As forests are cleared to create new pastures, it is a major driver of deforestation, especially in Latin America where, for example, some 70 per cent of former forests in the Amazon have been turned over to grazing.
At the same time herds cause wide-scale land degradation, with about 20 per cent of pastures considered degraded through overgrazing, compaction and erosion. This figure is even higher in the drylands where inappropriate policies and inadequate livestock management contribute to advancing desertification.
The livestock business is among the most damaging sectors to the earth’s increasingly scarce water resources, contributing among other things to water pollution from animal wastes, antibiotics and hormones, chemicals from tanneries, fertilizers and the pesticides used to spray feed crops.
Beyond improving animal diets, proposed remedies to the multiple problems include soil conservation methods together with controlled livestock exclusion from sensitive areas; setting up biogas plant initiatives to recycle manure; improving efficiency of irrigation systems; and introducing full-cost pricing for water together with taxes to discourage large-scale livestock concentration close to cities.
un.org
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of three Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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Silversoul
PleromaticExplorer
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 15,297
Loc: Mostly harmless
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: Diploid]
#7779018 - 12/19/07 07:12 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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There are several human activities which produce greenhouse gases. Raising livestock is among them.
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"I happen to be the CEO of the Committee for Surrealist Investigation of Claims of the Normal, and we actually are offering $10,000 to anybody who can produce anything that is totally normal in all respects, or even average." -- Robert Anton Wilson
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: Silversoul]
#7779059 - 12/19/07 07:21 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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Well, it's not anthropogenic then, is it? It's bovipogenic. 
QED
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of three Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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xFrockx
Fucking Hippie
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 1,413
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 12 hours, 45 minutes
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
#7779576 - 12/19/07 09:17 PM (11 months, 10 days ago) |
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"Which is why the earth is currently 500 degrees celsius, because it really is a VISCOUS CYCLE that only goes up."
This is one of the dumbest things I have ever read of yours zappa. First of all, for your logic to be anywhere near sound the bacteria would have to be able to live in such high temperatures. Not only that, but they would also have to have a nearly unlimited food source. This is obviously not the case.
Try going on a fishing trip to the gulf coast of Florida. Red tide has hit them in a big way, Tarpon and other fish species are severly declining because the gulf is very warm, and very polluted by Mexican agricultural waste. The algae, however, can only sustain a population of a certain size, so the "cycle" does happen, but it happens just enough to raise the carrying capacity. The algae don't produce limitless CO2, but they take over the ecosystem enough that they kill all the fish when they bloom and release nerve toxins into the water.
--------------------
I want to tell you a story,
About a little man,
If I can,
A gnome named Grimble Grumble,
And little gnomes stay in their homes,
Eating, sleeping, Drinking their wine
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