|
 afoaf
CEO DBK?
Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,319
Loc: Ripple's Heart
|
 Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091371 - 03/01/08 07:51 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
hey guys, what's going on in here?!
--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
|
joker_man
Registered: 11/14/05
Posts: 211
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091382 - 03/01/08 07:53 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
zappaisgod clearly has his own agenda. Asking him to educate himself about global warming is ludicrous. He is going to continue seeing things the way he wants to see them. It's a rather convenient way to live.
Furthermore, zappaisgod, you aren't going to find "proof" that CO2 drives global warming. There are only theories, my man. And to that end, most climatologists agree that there is some sort of link between anthropogenic C02 production and climate change. You don't have a cent of credibility.
|
 supernovasky
Scientist
Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 1,472
Last seen: 3 hours, 4 minutes
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: joker_man]
#8091390 - 03/01/08 07:56 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Convinient way to live, yes, but its an insult to academic integrity. I know how they work though. He'll probably find one of the journal articles (out of 30), post a criticism of it that he found on google, and act like that disproves the 29 other articles. Yes, each of these articles DID have criticisms, so do all peer-reviewed journal articles. That is the essence of peer review. The important part though, is that they made it through. Scientific theory relies upon body of evidence, and the body of evidence points to CO2.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 12,229
Last seen: 10 hours, 31 minutes
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: joker_man]
#8091412 - 03/01/08 08:04 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Well, that's what I asked for. I asked for a link to an article that establishes that CO2 concentration drives global warming. If there are any they should not be so hard for you to link since this is such a popular scam. You provided exactly zero links, I doubt you read any of those articles and now you are admitting that they don't satisfy my request anyway.
Thanks, you keep making my point. My agenda is not to see gullible nitwits driven to useless panic over NOTHING. Like alar. Google that: alar scare. You'll actually get a result.
--------------------
"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 12,229
Last seen: 10 hours, 31 minutes
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091421 - 03/01/08 08:06 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
supernovasky said:
and the body of evidence points to CO2.
No it doesn't. It points to solar activity.
--------------------
"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
|
Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
|
 Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: joker_man]
#8091424 - 03/01/08 08:07 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
zappaisgod clearly has his own agenda. Asking him to educate himself about global warming is ludicrous. He is going to continue seeing things the way he wants to see them. It's a rather convenient way to live.
I see something different. I see Zap asking for ONE SINGLE FRIGGIN DOCUMENT written and peer reviewed by scientists that shows a causal link. He's getting back a hodgepodge of assorted links that don't say a thing about a CAUSAL CONNECTION.
Quote:
Zap says: Are you incapable of finding one single article to link?
What he's asking for here should be simple to find if things are as dire as supernovasky says they are. One direct link to a properly reviewed document showing a CAUSAL CONNECTION shouldn't be that hard to find.
Why are you guys having so much trouble with this?
--------------------
Wanna hear something depressing? One out of three Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
|
supernovasky
Scientist
Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 1,472
Last seen: 3 hours, 4 minutes
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
#8091434 - 03/01/08 08:09 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Here is what zappa said:
Quote:
Will one of you please provide me with a peer reviewed scientific report that establishes a causal link leading from CO2 increases to increased global temperature? Thank you in advance.
Does it say "please provide me with a link"?
No. It didnt ask for a web-link to some article.
It asked for a peer reviewed scientific report that establishes a causal link from CO2 to increased global temperature.
You can go back and revise, whatever you feel like doing.
If you haven't read Tyndall though and honestly try to debate this with a climatologist, you'll get laughed at.
So how about you. Post one scientific peer-reviwed journal article in a major peer-reviewed journal (not some tiny ass one in New Zealand, I'm talking about Nature.. Climatology...etc) that discredits or disproves CO2's link to global warming. Lets hold you to the same standards, because I showed you the exact ADDRESS in the journal to get the articles.
If you're asking for me to physically send you these articles, I will not. I'm not giving you anything, you're going to have to actually do your own research *gasp*.
|
supernovasky
Scientist
Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 1,472
Last seen: 3 hours, 4 minutes
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: Diploid]
#8091446 - 03/01/08 08:12 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
So you too believe that science is done by trading web-links and lawn-chair research. That's too bad. Honestly, I'm not going to debate you the way you want to debate. It's not done that way. There are documents, and I showed where to get them. They are accessible by any scientific institution, and by most universities. What you see on google and on the news? That is science that has been filtered for your consumption. Spun.
Read the actual journal articles. Or are you arguing that Tyndall, Arrhenius, and Kaplan did NOT make such a connection in their papers? If that is your argument, then you lose by default, easily proven by simply reading the papers 
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 12,229
Last seen: 10 hours, 31 minutes
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091453 - 03/01/08 08:14 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
supernovasky said:
It asked for a peer reviewed scientific report that establishes a causal link from CO2 to increased global temperature.
Well, where's the article? I'm still waiting. You copying a bibliography somebody else compiled about stuff you probably haven't read from 50 year old speculation (Plass and Calender, I've heard of both of them) with what seems to you to be germane titles aint up to it.
--------------------
"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
|
Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091455 - 03/01/08 08:15 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
you're going to have to actually do your own research
You're the one making the claim of a causal link. It's up to the claimant to provide evidence of what he claims, not the other way around.
This is Debate 101.
--------------------
Wanna hear something depressing? One out of three Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 12,229
Last seen: 10 hours, 31 minutes
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091459 - 03/01/08 08:17 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Arrhenius? 1896? You just fail.
--------------------
"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
|
johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 7,022
Loc: Americas
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
#8091469 - 03/01/08 08:20 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I'm saying that I'm not giving you an article, I am giving you peer-reviewed research reports. They are not "articles." They pass through a vigerous process of peer review. Each of those does exactly what you asked, it links CO2 to the heating of the earth.
I thought I made it clear I was using article to refer to the written word. I don't know why you think I can't refer to a journal-published submission as an "article"... calm the fuck down, where are you from, and how is the word article an uncommon word to refer to the afroementioned?
And no, zappa didn't ask for a link, he asked for a demonstration of causality.
And finally, this whole page is full of pissing and moaning.
People make statements that are unsupported, someone asks for proof, and then everyone comes out of the woodwork with their bullshit.
And I must say, in my experience, those who trumpet the virtues of "peer-review" are generally naive or ignorant. I here that shit on the news all the time, but funny... the people in the physical sciences never seem to talk about this in my experience... they're interested in the results. Newsflash: some jackasses editing a journal cannot ensure credible results or conclusions, and in fact haven't.
How about we look at the evidence, and not rely upon bullshit like the fact that some journal is well-regarded or is *gasp* peer-reviewed.
Stop the ad hominems and present the evidence.
And about that slew of journals, which you've now equivicated with respect to their relevance, I can't seem to find any of the one's I've looked for, and probably couldn't get that issue anyways due to the age.
and throwing 30 citations without an explanation of the points to be proven by each isn't really helpful anyways. I don't care to do the work to find it to have someone decide another supports their point
|
supernovasky
Scientist
Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 1,472
Last seen: 3 hours, 4 minutes
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
#8091473 - 03/01/08 08:22 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
No, it does not.
Willson, Richard C. (1997). "Total Solar Irradiance Trend During Solar Cycles 21 and 22." Science 277: 1963-65.
(Talks about Solar Irradiance, how it varies by little more than .04% between cycles, and about how CO2 is a better explanation).
National Research Council, Board on Global Change (1994). Solar Influences on Global Change. Washington, DC: National Academy Press
(The council determined that solar influences play little to no part).
I've cited The NOAA: ^ National Center for Atmospheric Research (2006-09-14). "Changes in Solar Brightness Too Weak to Explain Global Warming". Press release. Retrieved on 2007-07-13.
"“Our results imply that, over the past century, climate change due to human influences must far outweigh the effects of changes in the Sun's brightness,”
Plus, you can look at correlation from 1970-today. There is no fit.
We have not been taking good measurements of the constants before modern times anyway.
|
supernovasky
Scientist
Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 1,472
Last seen: 3 hours, 4 minutes
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091482 - 03/01/08 08:28 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
He asked for the peer-reviwed journal articles, and I provided him with the proper ones.
Quote:
Arrhenius? 1896? You just fail.
So anything discovered before modern times is just false? Do you even know who Arrhenius was? Sure, there were flaws in some of his understandings, but he is arguibly the godfather of what would a century later become a verifiable theory. It's just like telling me I couldn't use Einstein or Darwin to prove relativity or evolution.
Quote:
some jackasses editing a journal cannot ensure credible results or conclusions, and in fact haven't.
And some jackass in his chair at a computer can? Sorry, but the process of peer review does not only include "Editing." It includes independent verification of facts, things that are NOT on your side.
Quote:
I can't seem to find any of the one's I've looked for, and probably couldn't get that issue anyways due to the age.
Then you are not using Academic Search Premier or any other journal search. You can find copies of the major journals at any academic library worth its weight in wood.
Quote:
You're the one making the claim of a causal link. It's up to the claimant to provide evidence of what he claims, not the other way around.
This is Debate 101.
This is not a debate. This is him asking if I could provide peer-reviewed research articles, which is what I did. If he REALLY wanted articles that describe articles, he should have asked. I am not in the business of news and online spin, though, I'm in the business of science. I can personally give a rats ass as to whether or not you "Believe" global warming. The evidence is there, it has been well documented, and the debate is only outside of the realm of those who actually understand and read the literature.
|
johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 7,022
Loc: Americas
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091494 - 03/01/08 08:33 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
supernovasky said:
So you too believe that science is done by trading web-links and lawn-chair research. That's too bad. Honestly, I'm not going to debate you the way you want to debate. It's not done that way. There are documents, and I showed where to get them. They are accessible by any scientific institution, and by most universities. What you see on google and on the news? That is science that has been filtered for your consumption. Spun.
Read the actual journal articles. Or are you arguing that Tyndall, Arrhenius, and Kaplan did NOT make such a connection in their papers? If that is your argument, then you lose by default, easily proven by simply reading the papers
who the fuck are you, and why do you feel you have some superiority as an unimpeachable scientist?
who are you to tell anyone how science is done?
Christ, even if you do have some degree it doesn't matter, we're discussing logic here, not credentials.
Your posts overflow with some arrogant presumption that:
1) the others in this conversation don't understand logic
2) the others in this conversation don't understan "how science is done" whatever the fuck that means
3) anyone who questions you refutes anthropogenic global warming
newsflash, I never said I had a position on the subject, yet you've lumped me in w/ the deniers and those who "don't understand science" (the horror!)
And since you seem to have stumbled upon the basics of the difference between corralation and causality I'm not so sure you're as well-versed as you claim on "how science is done"- which apparently is not with weblinks, for some reason
And FYI, I didn't ask for a weblink, but I did ask for one damn article, hopefully within the last ten or so years so I could look it up. But since you seem to have backed away from your original presmise, I take it their's no need for this anymore?
|
johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 7,022
Loc: Americas
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: johnm214]
#8091536 - 03/01/08 08:48 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Then you are not using Academic Search Premier or any other journal search. You can find copies of the major journals at any academic library worth its weight in wood.
yes I am, and I don't really care to search through a shitload of databases, which is why I asked for recent results.
for example, if your refering to the ebsco products, nature is only available from 6/05/1997, and isn't available at all in my independant journal database (with thousands of journals)
So why don't you share what specifically you are using to find these articles and perhaps I can bring everyone up to speed since you seem unwilling to, but apparently not unable since you claim they are available through Ebsco, when I don't think most, if any, are.
It'll be a curious test to see if you actually looked before you spoke.
You have read these haven't you?
Quote:
And some jackass in his chair at a computer can? Sorry, but the process of peer review does not only include "Editing." It includes independent verification of facts, things that are NOT on your side.
1. What facts aren't on my side? I haven't made or refuted any factual assertions. Again, you seem to miscontrue scrutiny for unsupported statements as an attack on your position in general, which I've not disagreed with.
2. What facts are independantly verified? What are you talking about? Unless the actual experimental data is replicated, which it almost never is, their isn't any meaningful review of the results.
|
supernovasky
Scientist
Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 1,472
Last seen: 3 hours, 4 minutes
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091553 - 03/01/08 08:52 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Well, where's the article? I'm still waiting. You copying a bibliography somebody else compiled about stuff you probably haven't read from 50 year old speculation (Plass and Calender, I've heard of both of them) with what seems to you to be germane titles aint up to it.
God, you can do this on your own. Here is ONE of them.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v347/n6289/pdf/347139a0.pdf
Here's a quote:
Quote:
Data from cores drilled in polar ice sheets show a remarkable correlation between past glacial–interglacial temperature changes and the inferred atmospheric concentration of gases such as carbon dioxide and methane
You'll still have to pay for the full article though.
|
supernovasky
Scientist
Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 1,472
Last seen: 3 hours, 4 minutes
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091570 - 03/01/08 08:56 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
And since you seem to have stumbled upon the basics of the difference between corralation and causality I'm not so sure you're as well-versed as you claim on "how science is done"- which apparently is not with weblinks, for some reason
You will never prove causality, but you can evidence it beyond a resonable doubt. I find your doubts unreasonable. Tyndall and Arrhenius (and then later verrified by Plass and others) showed how CO2 absorbes large swaths of the radiation spectrum. Modern day research shows how this CO2, which has been proven to have this absorbtion capacity, correlates with temperature change.
|
supernovasky
Scientist
Registered: 01/10/08
Posts: 1,472
Last seen: 3 hours, 4 minutes
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091576 - 03/01/08 08:58 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Remember, by the way, science is not about proof, its about evidence. There exists a principle, the uncertainty principle, that when extrapolated, can mean that we can never prove anything. There is always an element of uncertainty in even the most proven theories. However, the evidence points to AGW caused by CO2.
|
johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 7,022
Loc: Americas
|
Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091597 - 03/01/08 09:04 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
|
|
Quote:
supernovasky said:
Quote:
And since you seem to have stumbled upon the basics of the difference between corralation and causality I'm not so sure you're as well-versed as you claim on "how science is done"- which apparently is not with weblinks, for some reason
You will never prove causality, but you can evidence it beyond a resonable doubt. I find your doubts unreasonable. Tyndall and Arrhenius (and then later verrified by Plass and others) showed how CO2 absorbes large swaths of the radiation spectrum. Modern day research shows how this CO2, which has been proven to have this absorbtion capacity, correlates with temperature change.
and I don't think anyone debates that.
but is this relevant to the warming of the earth, and if so, is it caused by human activity?
|
|
login or 
register to post messages and view our members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, encrypted messages, file attachments, board customizations, and much more!
Previous
Index
Next
Threaded
Edit 
Reply 
Quote 
