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 zappaisgod
horrid asshole
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 Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: falcon]
#8089408 - 03/01/08 11:23 AM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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Will one of you please provide me with a peer reviewed scientific report that establishes a causal link leading from CO2 increases to increased global temperature? Thank you in advance.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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 johnm214
 
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 7,022
Loc: Americas
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
#8090413 - 03/01/08 04:00 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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Well you know as well as everyone that you really can't prove things like that from retrospective analysis
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supernovasky
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: johnm214]
#8090635 - 03/01/08 04:58 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Will one of you please provide me with a peer reviewed scientific report that establishes a causal link leading from CO2 increases to increased global temperature? Thank you in advance.
Sure. Here are a bunch:
Arrhenius, Svante (1896). "On the Influence of Carbonic Acid in the Air Upon the Temperature of the Ground." Philosophical Magazine 41: 237-76.
Arrhenius, Svante (1901). "Über die Wärmeabsorption Durch Kohlensäure und Ihren Einfluss auf die Temperatur der Erdoberfläche." Förhandlingar Svenska Vetenskapsakademiens 58: 25-58.
Plass, G.N. (1956). "Infrared Radiation in the Atmosphere." American J. Physics 24: 303-21.
Plass, G.N. (1956). "Carbon Dioxide and the Climate." American Scientist 44: 302-16.
Plass, G.N. (1956). "Effect of Carbon Dioxide Variations on Climate." American J. Physics 24: 376-87.
Plass, G.N. (1959). "Carbon Dioxide and Climate." Scientific American, July, pp. 41-47.
Plass, G.N., and L.D. Kaplan (1961). Exchange of Letters. Tellus 13: 296-302.
Tyndall, John (1861). "On the Absorption and Radiation of Heat by Gases and Vapours..." Philosophical Magazine ser. 4, 22: 169-94, 273-85.
Tyndall, John (1863). "On Radiation through the Earth's Atmosphere." Philosophical Magazine ser. 4, 25: 200-206.
Tyndall, John (1873). Contributions to Molecular Physics in the Domain of Radiant Heat. New York: Appleton.
Tyndall, John (1873). "Further Researches on the Absorption and Radiation of Heat by Gaseous Matter (1862)." In Contributions to Molecular Physics in the Domain of Radiant Heat pp. 69-121. New York: Appleton.
Callendar, G.S. (1938). "The Artificial Production of Carbon Dioxide and Its Influence on Climate." Quarterly J. Royal Meteorological Society 64: 223-40.
Callendar, G.S. (1939). "The Composition of the Atmosphere through the Ages." Meteorological Magazine 74: 33-39.
Callendar, G.S. (1940). "Variations in the Amount of Carbon Dioxide in Different Air Currents." Quarterly J. Royal Meteorological Society 66: 395-400.
Callendar, G.S. (1941). "Infra-Red Absorption by Carbon Dioxide, with Special Reference to Atmospheric Radiation." Quarterly J. Royal Meteorological Society 67: 263-75.
Callendar, G.S. (1949). "Can Carbon Dioxide Influence Climate?" Weather 4: 310-14.
Callendar, G.S. (1958). "On the Amount of Carbon Dioxide in the Atmosphere." Tellus 10: 243-48.
Callendar, G.S. (1961). "Temperature Fluctuations and Trends over the Earth." Quarterly J. Royal Meteorological Society 87: 1-12.
Martin, P.E., and E.F. Baker (1932). "The Infrared Absorption Spectrum of Carbon Dioxide." Physical Review 41: 291-303.
---- Very important when it comes to establishing that CO2 in the atmosphere causes the absorbtion of infrared spectrums in amounts that affect the temperature of the earth
Can't ever forget Kaplan either...
Kaplan, Lewis D. (1952). "On the Pressure Dependence of Radiative Heat Transfer in the Atmosphere." J. Meteorology 9: 1-12.
Kaplan, Lewis D. (1959). "Inference of Atmospheric Structure from Remote Radiation Measurements." Journal of the Optical Society of America 49: 1004-7
Kaplan, Lewis D. (1960). "The Influence of Carbon Dioxide Variation on the Atmospheric Heat Balance." Tellus 12: 204-208.
Revelle, Roger (1983). "Probable Future Changes in Sea Level Resulting from Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide." In Changing Climate, edited by National Research Council Carbon Dioxide Assessment Committee, pp. 433-48. Washington, DC: National Academy of Sciences.
Manabe, Syukuro, and Richard T. Wetherald (1980). "On the Distribution of Climate Change Resulting from an Increase in CO2 Content of the Atmosphere." J. Atmospheric Sciences 37: 99-118.
Manabe, Syukuro, and R.J. Stouffer (1993). "Century-Scale Effects of Increased Atmospheric CO2 on the Ocean-Atmosphere System." Nature 364: 215-18.
here's a good one: Lorius, Claude, et al. (1985). "A 150,000-Year Climatic Record from Antarctic Ice." Nature 316: 591-96.
Lorius, Claude, et al. (1990). "The Ice Core Record: Climate Sensitivity and Future Greenhouse Warming." Nature 347: 139-45.
Sundquist, Eric T. (1987). "Ice Core Links CO2 to Climate." Nature 329: 389-90.
I can keep going, there are so many good peer reviewed studies out there.
Notice the journals, by the way. Nature. Journal of Atmospheric Sciences. The National Science Foundation. Physical review. Journal of meteorology.
Usually when a majority of scientists get together and all find that their data matches one another on independent verification, an experiment and theory hardens into a well-formed explanation. There are a lot of "lawn chair" scientists out there that take data out of context (even in this thread, looking at some charts that were taken out of context by people I am certain do not use them for their jobs).
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supernovasky
Scientist
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8090639 - 03/01/08 04:58 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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By the way, EACH of those studies I mentioned were revolutionary in their time, and each has a large importance on the research and discoveries in climatology we have made to this day.
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 7,022
Loc: Americas
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8090710 - 03/01/08 05:18 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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no one's gonna read all that crap
find one citation that shows a causual link and offer it as proof.
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SlashOZ
River Guide
Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 477
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: johnm214]
#8090892 - 03/01/08 06:00 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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lol you are starring at 30 citations right in the face and you have the audacity to ask him to give you another citation to prove what all those citations prove.
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"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" Gandhi
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 7,022
Loc: Americas
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: SlashOZ]
#8090966 - 03/01/08 06:14 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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no, I said I'm not going to read what might be around 300 pages of text, if I could even get journal articles form the 19th century
I'm saying zappa asked for an article that showed causality, and he was responded to w/ a slew of articles that probably don't. Find one and indicate it so that its contents can be analyzed.
And who are you to say that those 30 citations prove anything? I'd be shocked if you read any of them, and from their titles it seems obvious that no "proof," as you say, lies within their results.
Yes, I have the audacity to request the question be answered directly. And it seems you have the audacity to blindly accept what someone else claims lies within some jounal you've probably never read.
Get back to me when you've read that list and can defend their results. Until then, don't approach me with your presumptions.
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supernovasky
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: johnm214]
#8091270 - 03/01/08 07:27 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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Johnm, I did exactly what was asked. Zappa asked for a PEER REVIEWED SCIENTIFIC REPORT, not an article. The problem with AGW-deniers these days is that they do NOT read basic scientific literature. They rely, once again, upon news articles with spin. That is not how science works. I know you WISH that was how science works, but its not. Just you saying that you have NOT read Tyndall and Arrhenius' discoveries (things that are taught in virtually every climatology class), shows that you are in no position whatsoever to be debating the issue. It shows you have no understanding of the basic physics behind climatology.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
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Last seen: 10 hours, 25 minutes
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091286 - 03/01/08 07:31 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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I picked one at random.
Plass, G.N. (1956). "Carbon Dioxide and the Climate." American Scientist 44: 302-16.
Not only was it not a link it didn't produce the article itself in a google search. Further, it is from some 1956 article that I doubt says what you say it does. Did you yourself read it or are you just pulling a bunch of articles out of some other alarmist's ass?
I'll try to see a few others.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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supernovasky
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Last seen: 2 hours, 58 minutes
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
#8091296 - 03/01/08 07:36 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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LOL! So now you are calling me out and saying it doesnt exist? What bullshit.
You really do not read the basic climatology literature, huh. Its like trying to learn about atomic theory by reading, say, intelligent design articles. It doesnt work that way! Plass' "Carbon Dioxide and the Climate." is a VERY well established journal report that links CO2 and increasing temperatures. It was one of the first to show how the physics behind CO2 absorbtion connected to a warming trend observed by world weather stations.
Go to a fucking library man. Any big library should have it. Fuck, do an academic search premier for it.
Or are you not in college? Do you even have a degree?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
#8091311 - 03/01/08 07:40 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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Picked another one.
Kaplan, Lewis D. (1960). "The Influence of Carbon Dioxide Variation on the Atmospheric Heat Balance." Tellus 12: 204-208.
Another google search turns up exactly two hits neither of which is the article. It does send me to this:
http://www.aip.org/history/climate/bibdate.htm
A rather extensive bibliography that doesn't provide any proof that CO2 drives global warming.
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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supernovasky
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: zappaisgod]
#8091316 - 03/01/08 07:41 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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I told you exactly where to find each one.
For Kaplan's article, go to a library that carries tellus, get the 12th issue, and look at page 204-208.
I'm sorry, but "google" won't save your ass against real science.
Of course, you probably think you know what science is.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
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Last seen: 10 hours, 25 minutes
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091323 - 03/01/08 07:42 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
supernovasky said:
LOL! So now you are calling me out and saying it doesnt exist? What bullshit.
You really do not read the basic climatology literature, huh. Its like trying to learn about atomic theory by reading, say, intelligent design articles. It doesnt work that way! Plass' "Carbon Dioxide and the Climate." is a VERY well established journal report that links CO2 and increasing temperatures. It was one of the first to show how the physics behind CO2 absorbtion connected to a warming trend observed by world weather stations.
Go to a fucking library man. Any big library should have it. Fuck, do an academic search premier for it.
Or are you not in college? Do you even have a degree?
I asked for a link. You failed. It is not in fact available. Nor is the other one I checked. I am long out of college. Are you incapable of finding one single article to link?
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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supernovasky
Scientist
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091325 - 03/01/08 07:42 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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By the way, I hope you know that real scientific journal articles.. they dont work like CNN or Fox news articles. You actually have to purchase them. You can't just "Google this shit".
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johnm214
Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 7,022
Loc: Americas
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091327 - 03/01/08 07:43 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
supernovasky said:
Johnm, I did exactly what was asked. Zappa asked for a PEER REVIEWED SCIENTIFIC REPORT, not an article. The problem with AGW-deniers these days is that they do NOT read basic scientific literature. They rely, once again, upon news articles with spin. That is not how science works. I know you WISH that was how science works, but its not. Just you saying that you have NOT read Tyndall and Arrhenius' discoveries (things that are taught in virtually every climatology class), shows that you are in no position whatsoever to be debating the issue. It shows you have no understanding of the basic physics behind climatology.
whether I understand climatology isn't the issue here
as I said, the titles belie the notion that their is proof of causality within those articles
and I'm using articles to refer to written things, not news clips. yes, I'm interested in the evidence
And I have not claimed to hold a position here on the merits of the central argument (that anthropogenic global warming exists and is signifigant), I was only responding to what point zappa made, that proof is hard to come by in this arena, and causality is probably impossible to conclusively demonstrate.
As for your identification of the problem with AGW deniers, and your presumption that I am one of them and that I don't understand how science works, and that I don't read journals... I don't think I've given you any cause to make those determinations. Besides the issue is what conclusions are justifiable, not what you think I know about science. The individual isn't important here.
So if you could, once again, identify one article addressing zappa's point, preferably in the last ten years, it would be appreciated. Its not easy to find stuff from 50 years ago electronically unless its a major journal.
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supernovasky
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091339 - 03/01/08 07:44 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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I'm saying that I'm not giving you an article, I am giving you peer-reviewed research reports. They are not "articles." They pass through a vigerous process of peer review. Each of those does exactly what you asked, it links CO2 to the heating of the earth. Just because you do not understand the physics, and you demand a mainstream media article, rather than a SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL article, shows that you are in no position to even think about debating the issue. Come back when you actually stick to science (not what you search on google) and debate me. The link between CO2 and heating has long since been observed and is settled in the scientific community.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
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Last seen: 10 hours, 25 minutes
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091341 - 03/01/08 07:45 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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Even 50 year old ones from a journal like "Nature"? Surely there must be something you can link to. Do you read more than the generic bibliography and HOPE it says what you want it to?
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"For anyone who cares I know zappaisgod personally. He is gay. He is jewish. He is a douche. And he both, has a crush on me:" Some Incredible Retard
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supernovasky
Scientist
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Posts: 1,472
Last seen: 2 hours, 58 minutes
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091346 - 03/01/08 07:47 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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I identified the proper articles. That's like you asking for proof of relativity and discounting einstein's writings. These guys were the forefront of their generation, they were the ones who discovered the discoveries upon which much of modern physics, chemistry, and climatology are based on. By the way, at least 6 of those up there are from after 1975.
You got what you asked for. Face it, you were just exposed as someone who is debating without having read the proper scientific literature.
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supernovasky
Scientist
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091358 - 03/01/08 07:48 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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You can research those articles. I did my job, you can do yours. If you're not willing to read the scientific literature, that's not my problem. Read up on the authors, by the way, you'll learn their discoveries were not limited to climatology. I'm sorry that peer reviewed articles dont work the way you want them to, I can't just send you a link to the article. They are owned by the Journal's publishers. Its the same reason I cant send a book to you at no cost to either of us.
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supernovasky
Scientist
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Last seen: 2 hours, 58 minutes
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Re: Global warming is killing us all! AAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! [Re: supernovasky]
#8091367 - 03/01/08 07:49 PM (8 months, 30 days ago) |
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You didn't honestly think there were no articles that link CO2 to warming, did you? Do you really think basic scientific institutions are just pulling it out of their ass.
Edited by supernovasky (03/01/08 07:50 PM)
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