Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale - Money Matters

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Wiccan_Seeker
INFJcounselor-idealist

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 16,831
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Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale
#7761126 - 12/15/07 08:10 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

The same goes for other folks too, but in the USA it's exceptionally bad. It's a man-the-lifeboats kind of disaster actually.

This is a story about inflation, and how the government uses it to make your dreams crumble to dust.

To start out, here's some math to freak you the hell out:

The Eurozone has had an officially stated inflation of 2% a year. It is much wose than that, but shoot, lets go with the official number right?

That means the Euro of 2007 is worth 88.6% of the euro of 2002.

Now when the Euro became an actual currency in 2002 it was of equal value to the US dollar. But today we see that the dollar is only worth 0.67 of TODAY's Euros.

That would make the 2007 US Dollar worth 59.4% of what it was worth in 2002, and that's using the OFFICIAL numbers given by the ECB and pitting them against proven currency exchange rates.

True inflation always is higher than the government wants you to believe, because this works for them. Inflation is a sneaky kind of taxes really.

So there you have it: even if you use the bright and shiny numbers the governments put out, and apply math anyone can check for themselves, the 2007 dollars isn't even worth 60 cents of the 2002 dollar.

THIS GOES FOR THE VALUE OF ALL YOUR INVESTMENTS, SAVINGS AND RETIREMENT PLANS YOU MIGHT HAVE.

In these dangerous times of the war on terrorism, you have been fucked out of at least 40 cents from every dollar you own.

Wow. Unless the number of dollars you own has increased by at least 40% in the past 6 years, you in fact lost wealth to this scam of epic proportions. And even if you owned say $60.000 then and worked up to $100.000 now, all that hard work has been for naught, because even then it's a zero sum game - the number of dollars has increased but you haven't become ANY wealthier, not one bit. Making all that money has been a freebie, slave labor for your government.

Why do I call it a scam? Because inflation is government-controlled. There is inflation because the amount of money in circulation is bigger than your economic growth. If that happens, the money itself becomes less valuable - it represents less value per dollar.

How does that surplus money come into circulation then? Who is running this multi-billion dollar counterfeiting operation? Well, the Government, they are the only ones who can print the so called "real money" which is just a piece of paper with a number on it if you think about it. Why would they do that? Pure greed has a role in that one.

When a government brings extra money in circulation, they don't give it away, but they spend it. So if they print extra money, they "make" more money in more ways than one. They conjure it up out of thin air and get to spend it like it's real. The economic effect this has is that the surplus money puts an invisible tax on every dollar in circulation - it's a form of taxes plain and simple, but one without tax collectors or filling out forms.
Sneaky bastards aren't they?

Ron Paul doesn't insist on re-introducing a kind of gold/silver standard for nothing. You may like or dislike the guy but he does make it very clear that the US citizen is being screwed out of their money via this mechanism, and no one disputes it because its the truth!

Its like the town officials are giving a wonderful fireworks show of economic prosperity, and all the citizens are in awe, but behind their backs the cops are looting the citizens' homes.

It's all done with smoke and mirrors, but you are being fucked out of very real money in the mean time. Money you slaved for in a job you probably would have worked less hours a week at, if you only could afford it.

They are keeping your wealth in check so you must work as hard as you can all your life for them. And if you did win the lottery and got $10 million in 2002... 4 of those millions are already gone now, the rich are being hit just as hard as the poor, except the rich are in the luxury position of being far removed from suffering because of lack of money.

Slavery never was abolished - in fact we're all slaves now

Whoa, like, now what?

I don't have a wonderful scenario that beats the game, sorry. What you can do however is take a portion of your wealth out of the dollar system. If you buy something that is of lasting value to you, you are putting that portion of your wealth out of harm's way. If you are a musician (like a friend of mine) do buy that kickass guitar you always wanted. The guitar will give you years of joy and income. You can always sell it if you're in a financial pinch to make ends meet, and with inflation like on the US dollar you might in some years sell the second hand guitar for more dollars than you bought it new.

If you are in the position to buy a decent house in a decent neighborhood, go for it. Buying a house or renting one only will get more expensive. If you pay rent, the money's gone but if you pay off your mortgage the value of the part of the house you already own becomes bigger each month, making it a form of investing rather than a hard loss.

I like the idea of investing in gold and silver. This is portable, non-perishable, it probably will increase more and more in value as time goes by, there's a very accessible worldwide trade for it and you can buy it in small increments. Stuff it in a safe deposit box and you're good even if the bank goes bankrupt. Silver is $15 for a one-ounce coin ($1.400 for a 100oz bar the size of a small brick) and gold $800 per 1 oz bullion coin (or $200 for 1/4 oz ones). You as a citizen can easily buy gold and silver, and sell it when you feel the need.

Try to get out of debt, whole websites are devoted to it often offering free advice you can actually use.

Stock your pantry well. It's a good idea to have a reasonable reserve of food and drink in your house, not just to feed unexpected guests but also because foodprices are going up worldwide - so it's a smalltime investment as well as insurance against an unexpected shortterm shortage. (like happens in any country anywhere)

Be alert and alert others to what's really going down. Think about your money and the future of your plans.
And elect a good President this time, for the love of God!

(you may copy/paste this into a forum or email, and pass it off as your own)

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CantiSama
Atomsk

Registered: 10/21/04
Posts: 731
Loc: ATX
Last seen: 7 hours, 33 minutes

Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#7761145 - 12/15/07 08:25 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

inflation of the US dollar was no problem when it was the only game in town, but now since there are other strong international currencies such as the Euro it is definitely coming back to bite us in the ass. the only real solution now is to break the post-ww2 mentality and AS A COUNTRY stop consuming more than we produce.

but wiccan, we all know you are just trying to scare us into buying that silver you are always talking about, pushing the prices up so you can make a quick buck on us band-wagoners :crazy2:

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if you want to find out what’s behind these cold eyes
you'll just have to claw your way through this disguise

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Wiccan_Seeker
INFJcounselor-idealist

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 16,831
Loc: Virgo Supercluster (or b...
Last seen: 7 seconds

Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: CantiSama]
#7761158 - 12/15/07 08:34 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

we all know you are just trying to scare us into buying that silver you are always talking about, pushing the prices up so you can make a quick buck on us band-wagoners

LOL it's not like that, really. In fact its in my best interest if silver did NOT go bullish just yet, with a couple of years more of relatively low prices. I'd love it to go through the roof, but preferably only after 2020 or so.

I'm just outraged at all the fraud going on and I'm pretty disturbed by the thought of what might well happen in the 2010-2020 decade. I'm hoping it won't to, it's better to be a pedestrian in a world of abundance than drive a Ferrari on the road to Hell.

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undergrounder

Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NSW
Last seen: 2 hours, 22 minutes

Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#7761175 - 12/15/07 08:45 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:

[SCARY RANT]

... (you may copy/paste this into a forum or email, and pass it off as your own)

What is that some kind of viral marketing thing? Trying to raise precious metals prices? (and demand for tinned soup?) I don't mean to be accusatory, it seems weird you always putting up these long, well written doomsday pieces about precious metals.

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:igor:

RIP

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom:

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Cannabischarlie
Yarry's Apprentice

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 8,569
Last seen: 7 hours, 20 minutes

Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#7761186 - 12/15/07 08:54 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Thats very insightful, and well thought out. I have noticed inflation is getting out of control, and didnt even canada just surpass us in worth for their dollars? I didnt read all of it, but 3/4 of the article and definetely got the jist. Have you noticed that simple things like going to the movies has risen drastically in the last few years? Have you noticed stamps keep going up and up and up? Have you noticed just recently the price of say, fast food is considerably higher? its getting more and more obvious that inflation was getting out of control but I never thought to think that it might be intentional, just bad economics on the part of our leaders, but I assumed it was because of the misguided federal reserve and not something they where trying to do.

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we could all use a little more sunshine.

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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs

Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 40,121
Loc: [life]now[/life]
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Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#7761187 - 12/15/07 08:54 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Your wages haven't necessarily went for naught. If you are saving for a home, house prices (at least where I live) have dropped monumentally.

At least, if nothing else, it's a good time if you need a house.

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Wiccan_Seeker
INFJcounselor-idealist

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 16,831
Loc: Virgo Supercluster (or b...
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Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: undergrounder]
#7761199 - 12/15/07 09:01 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

What is that some kind of viral marketing thing?

I'm trying to raise awareness of what I believe is really happening, not trying to raise precious metals prices. And yes it's viral.

Quote:

it seems weird you always putting up these long, well written doomsday pieces about precious metals.

I'm persistently raising awareness because I foresee troubled times are in the immediate future and I'd like our community to think out strategies for themselves should this dire time come. Besides, getting people to think about their financial future is a good thing because most of life is lived on autopilot and it's only when you plan things that you can get ahead.

I care deeply for your average Joe, and at the moment he's being violated from both sides by their government and the big corporations, entities without a conscience that only care as much as is in their own interest.

It's not a scare tactic, it's a wake-up call. Take charge of your life and take responsibility. Be your own man. Part of life itself has always been a struggle. Don't get too comfortable in our First World of luxury and remember that if you don't take hold of the wheel, nobody's driving.

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Wiccan_Seeker
INFJcounselor-idealist

Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 16,831
Loc: Virgo Supercluster (or b...
Last seen: 7 seconds

Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: Redstorm]
#7761207 - 12/15/07 09:04 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Your wages haven't necessarily went for naught. If you are saving for a home, house prices (at least where I live) have dropped monumentally.

At least, if nothing else, it's a good time if you need a house.

Absolutely, that's what I'm saying. The best investment for your first pile of cash is buying your own home.

In many places house prices have gone down quite a bit, but you can bet they'll go up again.

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undergrounder

Registered: 11/10/06
Posts: 1,265
Loc: NSW
Last seen: 2 hours, 22 minutes

Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#7761247 - 12/15/07 09:24 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:

What is that some kind of viral marketing thing?

I'm trying to raise awareness of what I believe is really happening, not trying to raise precious metals prices. And yes it's viral.

Quote:

it seems weird you always putting up these long, well written doomsday pieces about precious metals.

I'm persistently raising awareness because I foresee troubled times are in the immediate future and I'd like our community to think out strategies for themselves should this dire time come. Besides, getting people to think about their financial future is a good thing because most of life is lived on autopilot and it's only when you plan things that you can get ahead.

I care deeply for your average Joe, and at the moment he's being violated from both sides by their government and the big corporations, entities without a conscience that only care as much as is in their own interest.

It's not a scare tactic, it's a wake-up call. Take charge of your life and take responsibility. Be your own man. Part of life itself has always been a struggle. Don't get too comfortable in our First World of luxury and remember that if you don't take hold of the wheel, nobody's driving.

Fair enough. So i'm guessing you belong to a well-organised, clever, secretive(?) network working for the benefit of the working Joes whose key plan for fighting 'the man' is spreading the word on investing in precious metals, buying property and stocking up on tinned soup...

... Well if the crash does come, i'll curse my lowly soup levels and wish i'd taken notice.

--------------------
:igor:

RIP

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom:

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Phred
Fred's son

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 10,720
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 10 hours, 34 minutes

Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#7761346 - 12/15/07 10:28 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Wiccan_Seeker writes:

Quote:

This is a story about inflation, and how the government uses it to make your dreams crumble to dust.

You confuse differences in relative values of various national currencies with inflation. The two phenomena are not equivalent.

Quote:

So there you have it: even if you use the bright and shiny numbers the governments put out, and apply math anyone can check for themselves, the 2007 dollars isn't even worth 60 cents of the 2002 dollar.

Bullshit. Here's an exercise in reality for any of you Americans -- go to a library (I guess this could be done online, but it's a hell of a lot easier to do at a library with archived hard copies of the local newspaper) with a list of a hundred things you bought in 2007 -- normal stuff like a pair of Levis 501 jeans, a quart of milk, a pound of chicken, a Taco Bell "Taco Grande", a new (not used) Toyota Corolla, a Stanley claw hammer, a ticket to a movie, a bottle of Coke, a new ink cartridge for your printer, a 9,000 BTU air conditioner for your bedroom, a set of sheets with pillowcases for your bed, a pair of white Reebok Tennis Classics... you get the idea.

Look through the archived newspapers for ads for those same products in 2002, then compare what you paid in 2007 with what you would have paid in 2002. You will find that despite Wiccan_Seeker's claims to the countrary, the two numbers are much closer together than he says they will be. Say you added up all the stuff you bought in 2007 and it came to US $16,666.67 for the year. In order for his claim to be accurate, your total for 2002 would have to be US $10,000. Was it? Not hardly. It was probably more than US $14,000. Was there devaluation of the US dollar in the last five years? Damn skippy there was! But nowhere even close to what Wiccan_Seeker asserts.

Quote:

I don't have a wonderful scenario that beats the game, sorry.

I do, and it's dead simple. Each and every month, take as much money as you can and buy a DJIA "Index Fund". It doesn't matter whether the market is on the way down when you buy or on the way up. Just buy as many units of the index fund as you can afford to buy each and every month of your life, and hold onto them as long as you can.

Quote:

I like the idea of investing in gold and silver. This is portable, non-perishable, it probably will increase more and more in value as time goes by, there's a very accessible worldwide trade for it and you can buy it in small increments.

You can do this too, if you want, but you'll lag far behind anyone who puts the same amount of money into index funds. Buying gold and silver will (over long periods of time) keep you more or less even with the rate of inflation, but you won't actually increase your net worth over the long run. True, over the long run you will likely not lose much (if anything) to the devaluation of paper currency, but you for sure will be far, far behind the guys buying index funds. Like at least two to three times behind.

Taking economic advice from people who confuse exchange rates with inflation is not the smartest thing to do.

Phred

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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea

Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 6,211
Loc: The War Machine

Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#7761367 - 12/15/07 10:37 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Where can you buy silver?

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RandalFlagg
That's MR.Dickhead to you

Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,173

Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#7761377 - 12/15/07 10:41 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Wiccan, you are gay on an epic scale. :tongue:

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OneMoreRobot3021
punky jewster

Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 56,026
Loc: new york shitty
Last seen: 17 hours, 20 minutes

Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7761415 - 12/15/07 11:01 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Oh snap.

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The Drug Policy Alliance

Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies

"The psychedelic experience - it has a tremendous force to revivify the spirit, particularly because it is not an ideology. It is not something someone 'figured out.' It is an EXPERIENCE. And this is important to bear in mind." - McKenna.

"We're not mad, we're just doing what we want. You rigid thinkers can't recognize the healthy sanity of that." - Harlan Ellison, "Crackpots"

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rawtoxic

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 2,045
Loc: smokey mountains
Last seen: 1 month, 1 hour

Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
#7761443 - 12/15/07 11:11 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Thanks for taking time to set it straight Phred.

And when the EURO came out it was weak / untrusted, people were speculative now it's strong and healthy.

Look for Europeans taking tons of vacations over here with those exchange rates though! That's how we'll be affected.

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DieCommie
Ally

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 6,494
Loc: The Union
Last seen: 57 minutes, 30 seconds

Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: rawtoxic]
#7761461 - 12/15/07 11:17 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Quote:

rawtoxic said:Look for Europeans taking tons of vacations over here with those exchange rates though! That's how we'll be affected.

Yes, and also less outsourcing of American jobs accompanied with a stronger world market for American goods and services.

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Behold yon miserable creature. That Point is a Being like ourselves, but confined to the non-dimensional Gulf. He is himself his own World, his own Universe; of any other than himself he can form no conception; he knows not Length, nor Breadth, nor Height, for he has had no experience of them; he has no cognizance even of the number Two; nor has he a thought of Plurality; for he is himself his One and All, being really Nothing. Yet mark his perfect self-contentment, and hence learn his lesson, that to be self-contented is to be vile and ignorant, and that to aspire is better than to be blindly and impotently happy.

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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 834

Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#7761526 - 12/15/07 11:44 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Someone was telling me that the government sold off our land to the Chinese and Russians. Since we owed China money we sold them some of our national parks.

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rawtoxic

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 2,045
Loc: smokey mountains
Last seen: 1 month, 1 hour

Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: Cheezit]
#7761539 - 12/15/07 11:47 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Last time I checked we still owe China money

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Coaster
ChemicalResearcher

Registered: 05/22/06
Posts: 12,509
Loc: La La Land
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Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: rawtoxic]
#7761546 - 12/15/07 11:50 AM (9 months, 21 days ago)

gr8 post wiccan
i think every1 should watch this too

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fapjack

Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 2,994
Last seen: 10 days, 19 hours

Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7761567 - 12/15/07 12:00 PM (9 months, 21 days ago)

I knew there was a problem when the double cheeseburger at McDonalds jumped up 59¢ to $1.59.

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coda
Banjo Goiter

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 8,363
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Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: Wiccan_Seeker]
#7761571 - 12/15/07 12:02 PM (9 months, 21 days ago)

Wiccan, i hate to say it, but what you posted is almost pure nonsense. Phred has it right with what he posted. Also im pretty sure the government just doesn't print money when it wants to raise the amount of money in circulation. AFAIK to increase or decrease the money supply the government buys or sells bonds. It's been a while since i had to dip into macro econ, but, if that dusty section of my brain is remembering right we don't just print money to increase supply.

I don't think going back to a gold standard would do any good either, imo that market is too unstable. Gold prices not too long ago were around 300-400$/oz. Now i beleive gold is being sold for 800+$/oz. Who knows what its going to be at in another year, i know i wouldn't want my currency based on something with such a wide degree of fluctuation. One day you could be rich as hell, the next day you could have lost 1/2 of your savings, who would want to put up with that?

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To get really high is to forget yourself. And to forget yourself is to see everything else. And to see everything else is to become an understanding molecule in evolution, a conscious tool of the universe. And I think every human being should be a conscious tool of the universe. . . .

-JG

Don't fuck with the laughing jesus.

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ashfiken
TotalCrazyasshole

Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 335
Loc: SC
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Re: Americans -- You are being robbed on an EPIC scale [Re: coda]
#7761912 - 12/15/07 02:05 PM (9 months, 21 days ago)

have you just now realized all this wc? its been pretty obvious for those intelligent enough to see for a bit... while going back to the gold standard will not work at this point for many reasons coda most of what wiccan said is legit. if you havent invested in gold and silver yet than dont bother it truly wont make much. if you want my honest opinion it would be more wise to invest in the euro or yen(my ideal) but the best idea not to get fucked by the us govt is to leave the country or we can have a revolution against the capitalist money grubbers who run this country. personally money and material things i dont give a damn about but we are getting fucked. and just some extra info it doesnot matter who you vote for the govt will put the candidate they want in in. if you didn t already kno this for at least 10-15 years there has been computer programs that can change ballots to a 51-49% side in whatever direction they see fit. stop trusting the media its all the same bs. people on this forum seem to be much less informed than it thought.

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hmm...

Edited by ashfiken (12/15/07 02:07 PM)

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