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 Nashbar
just strange.... on drugs
 
Registered: 07/16/05
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 Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: fastfred]
#7233816 - 07/28/07 12:48 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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it's a damn shame that 15 lbs of shrooms aren't going to make it into the happy people
it's already hard enough to find good mushrooms
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 LayYouIn
Taurus
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Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: Nashbar]
#7233965 - 07/28/07 01:53 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nashbar said:
it's a damn shame that 15 lbs of shrooms aren't going to make it into the happy people
it's already hard enough to find good mushrooms
not when you grow them yourself. 
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spud303
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Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: jeetered]
#7234048 - 07/28/07 02:23 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
jeetered said:
Quote:
usefulidiot13 said:
so the dogs were trained to smell mushrooms eh?
i would have cruise control on 70 no matter what...
dogs ARE NOT trained to smell mushrooms, this is why they got caught
Can anybody verify this? Mushrooms have a pretty distinct smell, why wouldnt they have dogs that could sniff them out?
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fastfred
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Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: Nashbar]
#7234148 - 07/28/07 02:52 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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If you trained a dog to smell out mushrooms they would hit on all types of mushrooms, most of them legal.
Training a dog to sniff out legal substances means that when the dog indicates it wouldn't be probable cause to search the car, therefore defeating the purpose of having a drug dog.
-FF
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peaceandlove
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Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: fastfred]
#7234846 - 07/28/07 07:09 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
It's true about false positives. You don't have to wait around for the dogs though. If they detain you longer than would reasonably required for what you are stopped for then it will be thrown out in court.
I read a news story here on that exact case. A massive amount of weed was found, but the lady had refused the search. They detained her for an hour + to get the dogs there. The court threw it out.
This is true, recent law passed in Supremem court I believe around 2005 allows police to use evidence found by drug sniffing dogs on any parked/detained vechile. If a k-9 unit is very close by or is the unit that pulled you over, it is legal for them to use evidence even if no reason for the search, HOWEVER they are NOT allowed to hold you for a k-9 to arrive, they have no probable cause and are not allowed to detain you for an extended period of time. This topic was specifically covered by my retired cop teacher of a criminal justice course.
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ChristianTaylor5
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Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: fastfred]
#7235671 - 07/29/07 03:03 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
Bad advice. Never consent to a search. The second you do you're fucked. How many times have we read stories where the driver consented to a search and got fucked? I can't even remember the last time I read a story where someone didn't consent and got busted.
Consenting to a search is just plain stupid, weather you have anything or not. You will be there a lot longer if you consent. Lots of times if you say no they simply send you on you're way.
Once you consent they can keep you there as long as they want. They can tear your car apart and leave you there in the rain with no tools.
Your story about making them put things back is BS in most cases. They don't have to put shit back. I complained about my sleeping bag getting unrolled in the dirt and my pillow thrown in the dirt. He did it anyway. Then I asked if he was going to roll it up again. He proceeded to tell me that he's taken people's seats out, in the rain, and left them on the side of the road with no tools before.
Never consent to a search. Once you do you've just fucked yourself any way you figure it.
I don't know where you hail from and I understand that things are a lot different from place to place. Where I come from you getting screwed if you say no to a search. I am in no place to judge you but some of these comments make me question how much real legal experience you have. Or maybe I just don't know how things work where your from. Either way, the only thing I can say is, if in this type of situation while in my area then consenting is the best advice I can give for staying safe.
On the other hand completely, I would advice against any written consent. Once while traveling on the highway me and a friend got pulled over and the two police cruisers (2 was very odd for the area) seemed very suspicious of us. Making up some bullshit reason why they pulled us over, saying we were messing with some trucker or something, and saying it looked as if I were drinking alcohol. Something else was up for sure, I believe they mistook us for someone they were looking for. When they asked to search they asked us both to give written consent. I found this all very odd and sketchy, I also had a bad feeling that after receiving the written consent and everything was on the up and up they would possibly plant something. My reasoning for thinking this was the fact that I have never been asked to submit a written consent and the whole situation was very out of place.
My friend and I told them they could search but we were not willing to sign anything. All we had on us was a perc 10 and they did a fast cursory search and sent us on our way.
BTW, In certain situations police are obligated to return everything to your specifications. Although I'm sure many cops just blow this responsibility off I find it is all in knowing the law AND having it on you side. Plus there are some key details to that story which I left out, there were some very odd things going on that night. For example, his supervising officer had to come down to try and convince me to let them in the car. At one point the officer came at me to attack and his own supervising officer had to hold him back and tell him to take a walk. Imagine that, some cop being ordered to walk around the block because he was acting out of line. There is more than that as well but I'm sure you guys are not interested.
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rawtoxic
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Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: ChristianTaylor5]
#7235921 - 07/29/07 08:17 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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FF while I agree with you a 99% of the time if I was driving with a well hidden cache of dope I would consent to the search and take my chances.
I refused consent to a search was placed in handcuffs thrown in the patrol car the deputy searched my car and after 10 minutes of searching found a one hitter pipe that he said he had earlier seen when he asked me to get out of the vehicle asked him why he didn't go for it right away if he already knew where it was and he said he wanted to search rest the vehicle first. I complained to the officers supervisor and interal affairs division of police dept. there was even another officer present who covered for the arresting officer. they even opened my US mail without a warrant and all they did was deny that as well. internal affairs did not do a fucking thing either. ALL FOR A $50 MJ TICKET. sure I would have loved to fight it but a lawyer was going to cost $2000 + to represent me or just lose the battle keep my $2k and pay the $50 fine and have MJ possession added to the various facets of drug crimes on my record.
anyways I'm all for consenting to search for everyday pothead driving should I be a drug trafficker my stance may change.
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fastfred
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Posts: 6,242
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: Nashbar]
#7236992 - 07/29/07 03:46 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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> In certain situations police are obligated to return everything to your specifications.
I've never heard of any law requiring anything of the sort. Supposing that the cop broke something or throwing it in the dirt ruined it you would have to file a lawsuit against the city, county, or state. The lawsuit would cost you a bundle and cops are very prone to lying and covering for each other. Cops know that this is the situation and they OFTEN abuse the situation.
> I also had a bad feeling that after receiving the written consent and everything was on the up and up they would possibly plant something.
You are very wise to have suspected this, it does happen. It's another good reason to NEVER CONSENT TO A SEARCH.
> I am in no place to judge you but some of these comments make me question how much real legal experience you have.
Ask NORML, ACLU, any lawyer, etc. they will ALL tell you to never consent to a search. I'm amazed that anyone would argue against me.
Time and time again we read stories of busts in this forum, and almost all of them happen because a minor traffic violation gets them pulled over and then they consent to a search. Every time I read that I marvel at how stupid they were. Most of them could have just said no and been on their way, instead they consented to a search while sitting on 10 years worth of drugs.
There are a few circumstances where you should consent to a search, but they are very few and far between. The ONLY time you should consent to a search is when they are going to search anyway. That usually happens when you have no DL, expired registration, or some other situation where they have the right to tow and impound your car.
Your false belief of "If I'm nice to the cop he'll be cool to me," is total bullshit and shows a very poor understanding of the law.
You have a right against unreasonable search and seizure. When you give up that right you've just fucked yourself in a number of ways.
They can and will tear your car apart for hours, when you could have just been on your way. The attitude of "Only criminals who have something to hide don't consent," is also wrong. Anyone with much experience with the law will refuse a search.
Simply say no and they'll let you go. If they don't you've just won your case if they end up busting you. If you say yes you've just given up all your rights and they will fuck you any way they can. You'll also have no chance of winning your case.
There is NO advantage to saying yes. You'll be detained much longer, your shit will get tossed, and if they find anything you're fucked. People only consent because they are intimidated and bullied into it, they give in because they don't have the balls to stand up for their rights, never because there's any legal advantage to it.
Believe me I've had the worst cops demanding to search and threatening me. Because I refused to consent I saved myself a possession charge.
The situation was pretty funny looking back at it now. I was down by the river and a cop spied us from a good overlook spot. We were rolling up a joint using a fluorescent light I hung from the review mirror. He couldn't see exactly what we were doing, but he knew we were doing something illegal.
So he pulls up behind me, blocking me in. My buddy stashed the weed just under the passenger seat. The cop ran all my shit and then questioned me for a bit. Then he said "I'm just going to search your car now," and started walking towards it. I said "No your not going to search my car."
At this he immediately got visibly mad. Anyways, we argued for a bit. Then he made up a bullshit story about a gunshot coming from this direction. I told him that I'd been sitting there for the last half hour with my window down and there was no gunshot. Then my buddy chimed in that "I bet if we checked the dispatch log there wouldn't be anything about a gunshot." This made the cop so mad that I thought he was going to blow out a blood vessel or have a heart attack.
He continued to argue, saying that he put a 10:00 curfew on the public property down by the river. I replied that it was only 9:50. He told me that I had to let him search. My buddy chimed in that he was a law student (he wasn't) and started talking about the constitution and the bill of rights, etc..
The cop actually had the balls to say "The bill of rights and the constitution don't matter right here, right now." He then started telling us that we were pieces of shit for obstructing the law and that we could end up left in a ditch somewhere and nothing would happen to him. He even suggested that had actually happened to people before. He ended up actually shoving my buddy a few times.
Anyways, another cop arrived and the situation settled down a little bit. They both walked around the car about 5-6 times shining their maglights inside. Then he told me that he was going to have me towed away and my car impounded, and that they would do an "inventory search" anyways, so I should just let him search.
I told him that he had no reason to have my car towed. It was parked on public property, there was no curfew, and it wasn't even past his bullshit made-up curfew. He fucked around for a bit and made like he was going to call a tow truck. I finally said "Go ahead and search, I don't give you my consent but you've threatened me and told me you are going to search anyways and illegally charge me towing and impound fees, so go ahead and do whatever you're going to do. But for the record I don't consent to any search."
He walked around my car one more time then told me "Next time a cop wants to search just let him, then we won't be so suspicious." He then got in his car and left without ever searching.
That story is as bad as it gets. But I stuck to my guns and asserted my rights. Because of that I have no drug record. If I had consented I would have gotten a possession charge. If the cop would have searched without my consent I would have easily beaten the charges in court and would have filed several complaints against the police department and the city.
8 times out of 10 the second you say no to a search they say "Have a nice day," and send you on your way. The other couple times they will try to hassle, threaten, and intimidate you into consenting. If you break down and consent they immediately view you as stupid, ignorant, or cowardly. Intimidating someone gives the cop an erection and he will then proceed to fuck you in the ass.
One thing you've got to realize is that if you say no to a search the cop has to let you go. They are looking for people to fuck with because it fills their day and a lot of them are real sickos. The ones who aren't still think that fucking with someone is really fighting crime. They think you are a criminal and that if they can just prove it they will have done good.
Most people the cops come across they can't touch. They have to just write them whatever ticket they can and send them on their way. They live for the people who consent to searches, because then they can fuck with them as long as they want. Consenting to a search gives them license to hold you as long as they want, fuck up your possessions as much as they want, interrogate you as long as they want, drum up all kinds of bullshit charges for any little thing they find, etc..
It really has nothing to do with your location. Everywhere in the US is ruled by the same basic constitutional rights. Your mileage will vary from "Have a nice day," to the threats and intimidation in my story above. This will vary from location to location and from cop to cop. But the right thing to do is always the same. Never consent to a search.
-FF
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coopypants
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Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: fastfred]
#7237052 - 07/29/07 04:11 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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telling someone to consent to a search is the dumbest thing i have ever heard.
Deny Deny Deny
If they want to search your shit they will, but if you don't give consent you still have your day in court. I hate how johnny law also thinks he is judge jury and executioner.
I've been pulled over multiple times and its always the same old run down. The run my license and see since i was in trouble almost 10 years ago they can still bust my balls. They always ask what it was for, and i always tell them they have that info in there computer. I'm not uttering the word drug in front of a cop. It pisses them off, but i don't have to answer questions on a fishing expedition looking at me to slip up. You want to talk to someone we will go downtown and sitdown with you, me, the chief and my lawyer.
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ChristianTaylor5
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Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: coopypants]
#7238397 - 07/29/07 09:29 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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I can see where you are coming from FF and do agree with some of the points you made. Funny story too, well... funny now, probably not as much at the time, or at least until it was over. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on some things, I'm fine with that, I believe there are many different ways to get the job done.
The only thing that bothers me a little is your story involves no dogs. You say "That story is as bad as it gets", but dogs add an entirely new variable to the situation. Dogs will be commanded to false positive if they don't positive, and that means the cops are going to tear through every nook and cranny AND everything is on the up and up.
This makes me further support the theory that different areas require different tactics. Tell me what you think of that.
Later guys, IMO Good debate
-CT
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StrandedVoyager
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Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: ChristianTaylor5]
#7238899 - 07/30/07 12:33 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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This may sound like a lot but it really isn't. I've been pulled over with at least two pounds of dried mushrooms in my car before that I was carrying just for personal use. Back in the day it wasn't uncommon to have people with trash bags full of freshly picked mushrooms in the back of their car. This is just a publicity grab by a shitty police department aimed at people stupid enough to be impressed by this.
No offense but these guys deserved to busted for being stupid. Sweet jesus though, a million dollar bond?
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My god... it's full of stars...
Edited by StrandedVoyager (07/30/07 12:35 AM)
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Cannabischarlie
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Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: fastfred]
#7647456 - 11/17/07 11:17 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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no no no no no, if a cop cant find anything on you and wrecks your car or property, you go to internal affairs and file a report, put all your effort into getting the officer in trouble. they are held to a standard, and make some stuff up about how rude the officer was too. raise a huge stink. problem is your gonna get a ticket if you had a traffic violation but there must be other ways to look suspicious if you just want to fuck with cops. i dont recommend going out of your way though.
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 we could all use a little more sunshine.
 yeah, she's funny and somewhat interesting. not a beauty queen, but not bad lookin. i'd feel quite honored to fuck janine garofalo. -tiny_rabid_birds
If you're actaully racist in real life though, you're literally a homosexual faggot.-StevenMichael
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fastfred
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Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: Cannabischarlie]
#7650860 - 11/18/07 11:33 AM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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> they are held to a standard,
What fantasy land are you from? Stories regularly come up where cops beat or shoot people to death and usually end up getting minor reprimands or "suspension with pay" if anything at all.
> go to internal affairs and file a report, put all your effort into getting the officer in trouble.
They'll just tell you to file a lawsuit if you really think you can prove any damages or egregious rights violations. They don't give two shits about you, they're only concerned with major crimes. You've been watching too many tv shows where they pretend that the cops police themselves rather than being the famous "blue wall of silence" when it comes to sticking together and lying for each other.
As for CT's comments about dogs false alerting, I know that happens. In my case they never threatened the dog and I knew that they didn't have one in the area. If I thought they were going to pull that I would have insisted on them not detaining me for that long.
There's been a couple cases where dog searches were thrown out because the cops unlawfully detained them far longer than necessary on minor traffic stops. It doesn't take them longer than 15 minutes to stop you and write a ticket. The case I'm thinking of a woman was detained for a little over an hour and they found a couple pounds of MJ and some smaller amounts of hard drugs in her car. It was just a minor ticket stop, so she argued that anything over a half hour or so is plainly unlawful. She ended up getting off scott free.
OTOH if they break you down and you consent it really doesn't matter what they did, when you waive a right it's gone and you have no recourse.
-FF
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shroom_ninja
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Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: fastfred]
#7651257 - 11/18/07 01:48 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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I love it... teach a dog to bark on command (about 2 hours of work) and you get...
insta-"probable cause"
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StreetFreak
smellin' like a plant
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Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: shroom_ninja]
#7651477 - 11/18/07 02:57 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lol if you consent to a search you basically pull the rug out from under your lawyer. Do NOT fucking give your consent to search. Oh and don't listen to idiots who seriously think they know what they are talking 
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rawtoxic
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Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: fastfred]
#7656996 - 11/19/07 09:18 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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I will vouch for what FF says.
I complained that during a search an officer opened some US mail of mine (packages) and asked how they did that without a federal warrant.
So I said fuck this, complained and the sergeant was like 'that mail was already open according to my deputy' that's what there Internal Affairs Investigation found I even had a witness with me that IA contacted - so here I wasted a bunch of my time talking to cops (people I greatly dislike) only to get fucked in the end -am I crazy for thinking there was going to be another end result?
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: Troopers Find 15 Lbs. Of 'Shrooms In Traffic Stop (MN) [Re: rawtoxic]
#7660205 - 11/20/07 05:33 PM (4 years, 6 months ago) |
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Police have asked me if they may search me at least six times, and I always declined their offer. They are always a little surprised, but never gave me additional hassle for knowing my rights. If anything it makes you seem more sober and with it, in contrast to the drugged out victims that they are used to busting.
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