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 mikebart101
Bromden
 
Registered: 08/01/06
Posts: 619
Loc: New England
Last seen: 25 days, 18 hours
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 The United States Federal Government DESTROYED Democracy 
#7553939 - 10/24/07 06:34 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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"This is a government by the people for the people"
OK. OK. I get this point. I consistently see states asking the people to vote on laws, policy etc. within their state; this is democracy at work.
but
when it comes to federal laws, federal domestic policy, international policy, war, all the important decisions, etc. we have NO say.
Why is it that we as a people do not get to vote on EVERY decision that is made in this government. Isn't that what democracy is?
Of course we have a congress that is supposed to represent us as a whole but how do they know what our take is on a certain situation if everyone does not have a say.
Have you gone and visited your congressman to express your opinion about an upcoming decision? Its impossible. They are always fucking busy with bullshit when their job is to listen to everything the people say.
We should vote, just like a presidential election, and then let our congressmen take our results to the federal level. "Electoral" votes should be used in every decision process made within a TRUE democracy.
"Congress shall make no law" You know why? Because the people end up having no say whatsoever.
I remember in 9th grade American Gov., reading about some kind of failsafe the forefathers put in the constitution, that is used to fix a situation like this. I think we can petition the gov. on a federal level if we feel that they have been corrupt and power is then turned over to the people.
I have to research this. Get you pens out!
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So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,193
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 17 hours, 25 minutes
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Re: The United States Federal Government DESTROYED Democracy [Re: mikebart101]
#7554203 - 10/24/07 08:16 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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> "Electoral" votes should be used in every decision process made within a TRUE democracy.
That would not be a TRUE democracy.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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mikebart101
Bromden
Registered: 08/01/06
Posts: 619
Loc: New England
Last seen: 25 days, 18 hours
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Re: The United States Federal Government DESTROYED Democracy [Re: Seuss]
#7554470 - 10/24/07 09:59 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
> That would not be a TRUE democracy.
How so. The people within each state vote and based on the outcome, that state's senators and reps. vote for the state on a federal level.
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So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,193
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 17 hours, 25 minutes
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Re: The United States Federal Government DESTROYED Democracy [Re: mikebart101]
#7554569 - 10/24/07 10:28 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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In a TRUE democracy everybody has a vote on every issue. By using electoral votes, you have created a representative democracy rather than a TRUE democracy.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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BrAiN
Art Fag
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,870
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The United States Federal Government DESTROYED Democracy [Re: Seuss]
#7554639 - 10/24/07 10:47 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
In a TRUE democracy everybody has a vote on every issue. By using electoral votes, you have created a representative democracy rather than a TRUE democracy.
It's more TRUE of a democracy to have a republic based on the general vote rather than to have some stupid electoral college that puts one more layer inbetween the actual concensus and the result.
Having LESS votes and still being able to win doesn't sound like that great od a democracy to me.... sounds to me like some people's votes actually have more weight than others.
Let's also not forget that the congressperson that represents the district of columbia gets to debate, but NEVER GETS to vote on ANYTHING. We have almost half a million people that are elligible to vote in DC that are allowed to vote for a representative that ISN'T ALLOWED to vote.
Sure it's just a "flaw" in our democracy... but it's a BIG flaw if you ask me. Is long as the overwhelming majority of people in DC are of the minority party of the states, they'll never get the same rights.
People keep denying the right to allow their congressperson to vote saying that it's unconstitutional... but it sounds like a contradiction in the Constitution to me. All men are created equal, but this one city here isn't allowed equal voting rights.
Edited by BrAiN (10/24/07 11:38 AM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,193
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 17 hours, 25 minutes
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Re: The United States Federal Government DESTROYED Democracy [Re: BrAiN]
#7554756 - 10/24/07 11:22 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Ok, I give up on the capital letters. 
> We have almost half a million people that are elligible to vote in DC that are allowed to vote for a representative that ISN'T ALLOWED to vote.
Same as any other US territory such as Guam or Puerto Rico.
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Just another spore in the wind.
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 wps
Well-PaidScientist
Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 577
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Re: The United States Federal Government DESTROYED Democracy [Re: mikebart101]
#7554776 - 10/24/07 11:29 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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I used to think that direct democracy would be a great idea. just eliminate all the bureaucrats and have the people electronically vote on every issue.
but as much as I hate to admit it, there are times we need a strong federal government to smack down on mob rule. If it weren't for the feds going against popular laws, schools would still be segregated.
if we left everything up to mob rule, there would be no minority rights, no checks and balances. 
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"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."
- Tom Morello
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BrAiN
Art Fag
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,870
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The United States Federal Government DESTROYED Democracy [Re: wps]
#7554817 - 10/24/07 11:40 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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We're getting to that point of MINORITIES having no rights. The representatives elected by the 51% of the public keep voting for gay rights amendments and anti abortion amendments to the constitution that would affect that 49%. Leave that shit to the states!
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BrAiN
Art Fag
Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,870
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: The United States Federal Government DESTROYED Democracy [Re: Seuss]
#7554840 - 10/24/07 11:46 AM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said:
Same as any other US territory such as Guam or Puerto Rico.
Even worse. If you're bound by the laws of America then you should be able to vote on those laws.
At least DC people pay income taxes to the federal gov't, which I've read Guam residents don't have to do. I could be wrong. Puerto Rico has to pay SOME taxes so they should at least have a little say.
Owning a geographical territory like Guam and Puerto rico, governing the way they're allowed to act, what they can do, what taxes they have to pay without giving them ANY ability to have a voice...
Sounds to me like the system the American colonies were in during Brittish rule. Correct me if I'm wrong.. but we had a war about that didn't we? Hmmm... Some kind of revolution.. in the american colonies? ... Can't quite remember what that war was called. I think Moses lead the troops to victory against the Liberal Media and signed a peace accord at a Dunkin Donuts, though... but then the Liberal Media came back in 1812 and slayed Moses for being a dirty jew. I also believed the French got involved because the Liberal Media kept eating all their Croissants 
This has been another edition of the American History Lecture Series by Professor BrAiN. If you would like a transcript of tonight's lesson, please mail 20 dollars to ME and then copy and just print this page.
Edited by BrAiN (10/24/07 11:57 AM)
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zorbman
Be Prepared
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,475
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Re: The United States Federal Government DESTROYED Democracy [Re: mikebart101]
#7554988 - 10/24/07 12:24 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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We were never a democracy, we are a republic.
The founding fathers did not want the public's hands directly on the wheel for a good reason- they are notoriously fickle and often uninformed on the issues. The system we have is not perfect but it is the best anyone has come up with.
The best thing we can do to make the government more responsive to the people is get big money out of politics and make corporate interests just one player in the game rather than the main player.
Unfortunately corporate power has become extremely entrenched in Washington over time and it will take a conscious effort to root it out..until the cycle starts all over again..
Periodic revolutions are needed. Not necessarily violent ones either.
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Men occasionally stumble over the truth but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: The United States Federal Government DESTROYED Democracy [Re: zorbman]
#7555186 - 10/24/07 01:27 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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democracy = mob rule. this is not what we want.
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music: myspace.com/soundscientists
 . 
I have the heart of a child. I keep it in a jar on my shelf.
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis
Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 2,211
Loc: God Bless America
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Re: The United States Federal Government DESTROYED Democracy [Re: mikebart101]
#7556169 - 10/24/07 04:48 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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See the Tenth Amendment.
There have been very few cases that States rights have trumped Federal authority.......many due to the Commence Clause (or the interpretation thereof)
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8lbs Thomas Fawcet&Sons Optic Malt (Mash in at 153F)
8ozs Extra Dark Crystal Malt
8ozs Brown Sugar
1oz Colombus Hops @ 60 mins
1oz East Kent Goldings @ 15 mins
1oz Whitbred Golding Hops @ 5 mins
British Ale yeast
Ferment at 64F for two weeks.
14 years of brewing; the simple grain bills are the best!
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