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 Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 24,722
Last seen: 2 days, 6 hours
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 Re: Guide to Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia (PLEASE HELP!!)  [Re: hilikus989]
#7227668 - 07/26/07 05:45 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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> Since Gerhardt created this name in the mid 1990s, what justifies that last paragraph which claims:
> Name created: Tue Feb 20 17:57:44 -0800 2007
That is the first time that the Panaeolus papilionaceus var. parvisporus was seen on http://mushroomobserver.org.
> and under that is the following.
> Last modified: Thu Apr 05 22:23:50 -0700 2007 by Alan Rockefeller (Alan Rockefeller)
My name is in that entry because on April 5, I edited the name Panaeolus papilionaceus var. parvisporus to put the Ew. Gerhardt author info.
> That picture could be any species of Panaeolus int he P. sphinctrinus complex, although I do not see any veil rumnants on the image at the mushroom observer.
I don't see any reason to doubt that the observation: http://mushroomobserver.org/2553
is identified correctly. Do you?
> And with no herbarium deposits to determine what image that is, makes the post at that thread invalid as far as the academic and scientific community is concerned.
Darvin DeShazer is a very experienced mycologist and he answers his email quickly; if he made a mistake I am sure he would like to know about it so he can correct that entry.
> I talked this over with my collegue Dr. Stivje and he agrees it does not really resemble the original line drawings form the 1800s of Panaeolus papilionaceus.
Which images did Dr. Stivje say didn't match up?
> Images are posted for both Panaeolus papilionaceus and for Panaeolus papilionaceus var parvisporus. Ande they both show the same fotograph so again there is a lot of misinformation at those two sites by people from internet sites adding their two cents including misinformation into the features posted on shrooms at Wikipedia and at google mushrom sites.
The problem was that the Wikipedia article on Panaeolus papilionaceus was using the photograph of Panaeolus papilionaceus var. parvisporus. I put in an image of the real Panaeolus papilionaceus, complete with white veil fragments in the cap margin.
Thank you for noticing the error. Please let me know if you observe any others.
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 mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Guide to Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia (PLEASE HELP!!) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#7227684 - 07/26/07 05:52 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Alan, I really am not raggging about you but I keep seeing others posting the dame errors over and over and over form site to site and formr eeading old books because most cannot afford to buy a new book.
I did post for someone a list of shroom books for the east coast and the southwest.
I posted articles and then notice that only foru or five people read them.
I am so stuck trying to finish up five papers na refix the new Tales of the Sheroom website o I can really retire and move to southeast Asia, Maybe Laos or north vietnam.
I retired in ione year form everythign shroomy. after that my libraary is being donated toone in Bangkok. This is because of a personal battle I had with lawyers at harvard who tourned ont obe pompous asses.
Later and have a shroomy day,.
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Teotzlcoatl
Teotzlcoatl
Registered: 06/29/07
Posts: 2,421
Loc: South-Eastern USA
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Guide to Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia (PLEASE HELP!!) [Re: mjshroomer]
#7229246 - 07/27/07 01:26 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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What is the propibility of finding Psilocybe caerulipes in my area? I've heard it's rare.
MJ...don't leave us! Why are you going to the east?
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"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb
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Teotzlcoatl
Teotzlcoatl
Registered: 06/29/07
Posts: 2,421
Loc: South-Eastern USA
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Guide to Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia (PLEASE HELP!!) [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
#7229560 - 07/27/07 04:52 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 24,722
Last seen: 2 days, 6 hours
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Re: Guide to Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia (PLEASE HELP!!) [Re: mjshroomer]
#7230428 - 07/27/07 11:31 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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mj et al -
What do you think the species is on this one: http://mushroomobserver.org/760
It looks different than all the other Panaeolus papilionaceus observations.
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Teotzlcoatl
Teotzlcoatl
Registered: 06/29/07
Posts: 2,421
Loc: South-Eastern USA
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Guide to Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia (PLEASE HELP!!) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#7230450 - 07/27/07 11:42 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm debating on wheater or not i should inculde Pan. pap., I want to include another psychoactive panaelous species but don't know which one to use, any suggestions?
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"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 24,722
Last seen: 2 days, 6 hours
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Re: Guide to Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia (PLEASE HELP!!) [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
#7230475 - 07/27/07 11:51 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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> I'm debating on wheater or not i should inculde Pan. pap., I want to include another psychoactive panaelous species but don't know which one to use, any suggestions?
> mj said: Both Emboden, Schultes, Hofmann, Ramsbottom and even Ott have found psilocine and psilocybine in this species.
If all those people found it to be active, it almost certainly is. The collection that was inactive was from siberia.
Maybe add Panaeolus castaneifolius.
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Guide to Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia (PLEASE HELP!!) [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#7230500 - 07/27/07 12:01 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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They resemble a little of P. castaneifolius, or even a little of subbalteatus.
Remember an original id'ed mushroom in the late 1799s and early to late 1900s was Copelandia papilionacea.
Now, since maybe mycologists in different parts of the world were finding similar shrooms and giving them names different than one another caused a great miscarriage of justice in the world of mycology.
Here is from Japan, and from China, a sketch of Panaeolus papilionaceus which looks more like Copelandia cyanescens.
In fact, on early paper also described P. papilionaceus as having caps which sometimes became flat in age.
According to most mycological taxonomic papers, P. papilionaceus never became flat in the caps but Panaeolus subbalteatus does, so some 1800 mycologistts assumed the P. papilionaceus was also a synonym for P. subbalteatus whose caps can flatten in age.
Here is a line sketch drawing for a Japanese Journal of Botany (in Japanese) from the early 1918 issue.
Those above shrooms in the drawing could be either a species of Panaeolus or a species of copelandia. Dr. Stijve agreees they are probably a correct drawing of Copelandia and they resemble nothing like those in Paul Stamets book listed as P. Papilionaceus.
Tell me what you think it looks like. It was also in a late 1800s Chinese mushroom Journal, of course written in Chinese.
mj
Edited by mjshroomer (07/27/07 01:09 PM)
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Teotzlcoatl
Teotzlcoatl
Registered: 06/29/07
Posts: 2,421
Loc: South-Eastern USA
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Guide to Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia (PLEASE HELP!!) [Re: mjshroomer]
#7230606 - 07/27/07 12:30 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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ok so what pan. species should i include in my guide?
Remember it's gotta be in my area, So if Pan. pap. occur only on the west coast or something, please don't tell me to put them in...
Pan. camp. was one i was thinking as well as Panaeolus castaneifolius
And Pan. pap.
Could you guys reveiw and help me with my update-
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7229277/an/0/page/1
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"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Guide to Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia (PLEASE HELP!!) [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
#7230765 - 07/27/07 01:26 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Really try not to confuse pickers with many shrooms since most collectors never ever find more than one or two different species form their areas. In the South and southeast, P. cubensis, P. weilii, Copelandia species and P. caerulipes are common for the east coast and the copes and cubes from Florida to Texas and north to South Carolina.
So I would l basically list only two. the common P. subbalteatus, more so in Hay and compost than in Manure and P. papailionaceus for the northeast USA, mostly in the Area of Maine.
Lawn collections of those are rare in the fact they appear once or twice in a season in a particular area and then are gone from those locations appearing the following year on a different lawn.
I believe a large percentage of those skinny stemmed lawn Panaeolus subbalteatus are ctually another species of panaeolus and so far people need collecions with fresh in situ photos, then catalogued the pictures with the dried same collections and deposit them in a herbarium so someone can figure them out. They rarely resemble haystack and compost Panaeolus subbalteatus shrooms. They could be Olivaceus unless gerhardt changed that name.I really only look for subbs in hay and rotting compost. I never pick them in the lawns and rarely have seen them. For ten years, shroomery members looked for them all over California. in the last year about ten people posted images they believe are subbs, ALl found in lawns once or twice and then they do not find them again.
Over the past 35 years, I have found lawns with hundreds of Panaeolina foeenisecii and yet never more than one or two subbs in those lawns. Only Lizard King has shown a lawn along with GGreatOne234. Mitchnast with a field of manured subbs in Sydney Nova Scotia or nearbye..
Joshua who has not been here in a few years found a giant lawn of all P. subbs in Oregon or northern California, the next years nothing. Even Angry Shrooms giant compost heap has not reproduced since his original find several years ago of which about 15 pictures of his gigantic best ever shown here photos have never been found at that location again.
So I still doubt about three quarters of most Pan subb reports on these pages.
I would still avoid listing Gyms, Mycenas and Inocybe species, the hypholomas or even Pluteus since most will never find them and the other Psilocybe species are easily recognized and not confusing to a collector.
Liberty caps are reported by Redhead in and from Northern Quebec, south to Upper state New York to New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Prince Edwards Island.
Since they are sometimes found in Upper New York, they could also be in Maine, Conn. or New Hampshire but I have no records offhand and cannot dig around for the data burried i file cabinets or boxes in storage
And you also have P. caerulipes and maybe P. ovoideocystidiata.
mj
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coon
big odd son
Registered: 07/06/06
Posts: 3,243
Loc: behind the rows....
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Re: Guide to Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia (PLEASE HELP!!) [Re: mjshroomer]
#7230779 - 07/27/07 01:29 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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gyms rule.
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Teotzlcoatl
Teotzlcoatl
Registered: 06/29/07
Posts: 2,421
Loc: South-Eastern USA
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Guide to Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia (PLEASE HELP!!) [Re: coon]
#7230911 - 07/27/07 02:12 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Lawn collections of those are rare in the fact they appear once or twice in a season in a particular area and then are gone from those locations appearing the following year on a different lawn.
Excatly what happened to my Subb patch...
I would be very interested to find out what this psychoactive grass panaelous species is...they appear to be small subbs...but i believe the may be a new species...who knows?...perhaps someone should start a thread on the matter?
Could you go more in depth to P. ovoideocystidiata isn't it very similar to P. caerulipes?
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"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb
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Teotzlcoatl
Teotzlcoatl
Registered: 06/29/07
Posts: 2,421
Loc: South-Eastern USA
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Guide to Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia (PLEASE HELP!!) [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
#7230918 - 07/27/07 02:15 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Mj, please help with the new guide...http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/7229277/an/0/page/1
Things like-
"I would still avoid listing Gyms, Mycenas and Inocybe species, the hypholomas or even Pluteus since most will never find them and the other Psilocybe species are easily recognized and not confusing to a collector."
Are stated, you will notice.
--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb
Edited by Teotzlcoatl (07/27/07 02:16 PM)
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mjshroomer
Sage
Registered: 07/21/99
Posts: 13,774
Loc: gone with my shrooms
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Re: Guide to Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia (PLEASE HELP!!) [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
#7231649 - 07/27/07 06:11 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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AS I mentioned and noted on several previous occasions, I have real work to do with several Universities. I cannot work with someone who is putting together what appears to be a very confusing list of mushrooms by someone with a little knowledge. IT takes years to identify.To qualify a book such as you suggest, you need the same educational s most major mycologists to even make such a book note worthy.
Also, I listed numerous books dealing with the very regions you are talking about yet have not heard a single word like, "Wow, I went to the library and read the mushrooms of the great Smokies. Thats Tennessee. Even Texas has its own mushroom field guide. Georgia, Florida and Louisiana to Mississippi are covered somewhat by the North Florida Sherom Guide by Shroom Wizard.
The Northeast is covered by several major books.
I posted data here from journal publications on the chemistry.That same URL to Rovereto Italy to the journal Analli {look for Annali.com and then download issue 14 1998 PDF file by Guzman, Allen and Gartz. IT gives you every species and state with every collected deposited magic shroom from those regions. covers what mushrooms are in every state of the USA, every Island in the waters of the world and every foreign country on most continents yet apparently you have not even opened up that PDF file. ITs at my site its at erowid, entheogen.com, mycotopia, sacred shrooms, the lycaeum and I posted the url in several posts directed at you and others and still apparently you have not even looked but you continue to spam the forums with these same questions over and over.
Furthermore, to take a large percentage of your data from off the people of this site and the internet you are not going to have a lot of honest valuable info to make it worthy for others to read.
I show people whom love shrooms, photographs of Galerina autumnalis and people tell me they use to eat those all of the time.
I would not eat any mushroom someone like that tells me he use to eat.
If he did he would be dead.
I posted several hundred species collections identified as one species and in analysis and taxonomy they the majority of them turned out to be another species altogether, although some were of the same family.
Int he meantime, again,. good luck with your work.
I have to finish typing about ten pages for an article for Shroomtalk Magazine on Sasha Shulgin, Me and Jochen Gartz and sex, drugs and rock and roll.
I have another 140 page paper with six other authors,.
A dna paper on the new alkaloids found in Psilocybe samuiensis and two papers, one with shroomy danb and one with cactu, includes dna, chemical analysis, locations habitats, SEM photography etc. I am busy and everytime I respond to these posts over and over with the same information and no one goes and reads it. Well I really do not have the time to do other peoples personal research.
I work with Workman, and a few others such as RR and Roadkill but am too busy to add others to those works at the moment.
Also, Duke university has a very large mushroom herbarium deposits there and collections. If you are in school you could probably get some permission to access some of that data.. Both Weston LaBarre and Bernard Lowy (who wrote exclusively on Shroom stones from Central America), has also much shroom data, although both are dead. Lowy was co writing a shroom book ten years ago when Schultes dies so that is how I know about that. His data is possibly available to look at as are his thesis stacked somewhere in the library.
sorry,
mj
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Teotzlcoatl
Teotzlcoatl
Registered: 06/29/07
Posts: 2,421
Loc: South-Eastern USA
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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Re: Guide to Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia (PLEASE HELP!!) [Re: mjshroomer]
#7231824 - 07/27/07 07:07 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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MJ your awesome and anything you contribute is really very appreciated, please feel free to ignore any of my posts, thanks for all your help!
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"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb
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OGDWet
[]D.[].[]V[].[]D.
Registered: 10/11/07
Posts: 5
Loc: Jerzey
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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 Re: Guide to Carolinas, Virginia, Tennessee and Georgia (PLEASE HELP!!) [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
#7511349 - 10/11/07 10:55 PM (4 years, 7 months ago) |
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I found a BEAUTIFUL family of Muscaria var formosa right here in South Jersey. I'm sure if the Gods are right here in Moorestown, NJ, they're everywhere...
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