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 mikebart101
Bromden
 
Registered: 08/01/06
Posts: 619
Loc: New England
Last seen: 25 days, 18 hours
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 Mayan Human Sacrifice
#7310046 - 08/19/07 08:52 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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It seems to me like they had many things figured out; the universe, math, spirituality, art, etc. So what do you do when you reach the point of total enlightenment; when there are no more questions to be asked and it seems as if you understand EVERYTHING?
People hate on the Mayans because of the whole human sacrifice thing but there is so little information regarding it that it requires taking a much closer look.
What if this was performed at your own will, at your request. The ultimate move in human spirituality, when you finally accept death and embrace it. This ceremony was performed atop the pyramids (the ultimate human structure), the highest place in the village so all could see. This was something you wanted for yourself and your loved ones.
Maybe your loved ones ate your heart when it was all over; "Death is the road to awe." so to speak. Who knows.
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So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
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 Huehuecoyotl
Stranger
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,158
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Mayan Human Sacrifice [Re: mikebart101]
#7310060 - 08/19/07 08:56 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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The Mayans were not known for human sacrifice...the Aztecs were. It must be noted that the Aztecs attempted to extend their influence to the south at some point and forced human sacrifice upon the Mayans, but it is commonly thought that this religious dominance led to the decommissioning of their alters and the abandonment of their cities by means of a mass uprising from city to city.
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Maybe there is no Heaven. Maybe this is all pure gibberish — a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow — to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whiskey, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested...
--HST
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mikebart101
Bromden
Registered: 08/01/06
Posts: 619
Loc: New England
Last seen: 25 days, 18 hours
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So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.
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Huehuecoyotl
Stranger
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,158
Loc: On the Border
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...also...human sacrifice as practiced by the Aztecs was not a volunteer process. The Aztecs took the members of nearby tribes as tribute to sacrifice to their gods. This was a tax these communities could not stand. That is the reason that the Indians in the area banded with Cortez against the Aztecs...they were a domineering tribe with Imperial desires.
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Maybe there is no Heaven. Maybe this is all pure gibberish — a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow — to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whiskey, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested...
--HST
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Huehuecoyotl
Stranger
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,158
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Mayan Human Sacrifice [Re: mikebart101]
#7310089 - 08/19/07 09:05 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Your info is incorrect. Read some good current books on the subject. It is true that in the early Mayan cities that a Mayan ShamanKing would order his own sacrifice in times of hardship as a gift to the community, but this was not organized human sacrifice.
http://www.amazon.com/Forest-Kings-Untold-Story-Ancient/dp/0688112048
http://www.amazon.com/Maya-Cosmos-David-Freidel/dp/0688140696/ref=pd_sim_b_2_img/002-9185513-9190443
These books are by the man who helped to decipher the Mayan runic system.
Studying the shamanic traditions of ancient Central and South American people has been my hobby for some time.
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Maybe there is no Heaven. Maybe this is all pure gibberish — a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow — to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whiskey, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested...
--HST
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
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An Aztec god:
Quote:
Huehueteotl
To appease Huehueteotl, the fire god and a senior deity, the Aztecs had a ceremony where they prepared a large feast at the end of which they would burn captives alive. Motolinía and Sahagún reported that the Aztecs believed that if they did not placate Huehueteotl a plague of fire would strike their village. Huehueteotl was believed to have a preference for the bodies of newlywed couples. The sacrifice was considered a double offering to the deity. Just before the victims died in the flames they were removed from the fires to have their hearts extracted.
 Hue, we'll have to reconsider inviting you to our wedding.
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Huehuecoyotl
Stranger
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,158
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Mayan Human Sacrifice [Re: Veritas]
#7311599 - 08/19/07 05:17 PM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
To appease Huehueteotl, the fire god and a senior deity, the Aztecs had a ceremony where they prepared a large feast at the end of which they would burn captives alive. Motolinía and Sahagún reported that the Aztecs believed that if they did not placate Huehueteotl a plague of fire would strike their village. Huehueteotl was believed to have a preference for the bodies of newlywed couples. The sacrifice was considered a double offering to the deity. Just before the victims died in the flames they were removed from the fires to have their hearts extracted.
Yeah, that's my style alright. The part where the living hearts are cut from the half burned, but still livng victims always cracks me up 
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Maybe there is no Heaven. Maybe this is all pure gibberish — a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow — to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whiskey, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested...
--HST
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,088
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When you said you loved BBQ, I was imagining something different...
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figgusfiddus
Arrogant Worm
Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2,126
Loc: Figgus, Fiddia
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Mayan Human Sacrifice [Re: mikebart101]
#7313694 - 08/20/07 08:52 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
mikebart101 said:
It seems to me like they had many things figured out; the universe, math, spirituality, art, etc. So what do you do when you reach the point of total enlightenment; when there are no more questions to be asked and it seems as if you understand EVERYTHING?
People hate on the Mayans because of the whole human sacrifice thing but there is so little information regarding it that it requires taking a much closer look.
What if this was performed at your own will, at your request. The ultimate move in human spirituality, when you finally accept death and embrace it. This ceremony was performed atop the pyramids (the ultimate human structure), the highest place in the village so all could see. This was something you wanted for yourself and your loved ones.
Maybe your loved ones ate your heart when it was all over; "Death is the road to awe." so to speak. Who knows.
Yawn. Let's mythologize a historical culture until they represent everything we think they should, and then gloss over anything that is incompatible with our own mores.
Ever notice that most "great" ancient cultures were also slave-owning societies? Mayans too, by all available evidence (and remember that a great number of human sacrifices in those cultures that practiced them were indeed captured slaves). That doesn't detract from their achievements, but I'm not going to sit around trying to rationalize it away, either, pretending they really didn't mean to abuse, rape and murder other humans when they so clearly did. Yes, they had rather advanced mathematical skills--though by the same era Europe was far ahead of them in most respects--but they were not some utopian paradise. They were an ancient culture, and ancient living was rough, and did not, in most cases, involve any sort of communitarian, unconditional love for all your fellow man, especially if your fellow man was from the rival civilization fifty miles away (in which case he, his wife, his food and his children were fair game).
People have always been brutal to one another. If anything, we're moving away from that, albeit slowly. Let's continue that move, rather than looking toward the past for answers that aren't there. By all means, let's learn what we can, because humankind has done wonderful things over the years, but it's also created a lot of self-destructive chaos. People have mythologized ancient cultures before to suit their own ideological purposes, and it usually winds up being a ridiculous abuse of history. I won't name anyone who comes to mind because I don't seek to associate you with their crimes, but I can tell you now that these glossed-over visions of history are as dangerous as they are inaccurate.
Also, be skeptical about what material you pick up on the Mayans. A lot of it isn't peer reviewed, has no basis in reality, and had might as well be fiction. Or don't, whatever, them hacks need to eat too. That goes for a lot of popular ancient studies material, and I'm not referring in particular to the links above, which I only glanced over.
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FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
Edited by figgusfiddus (08/20/07 09:00 AM)
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods
Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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Re: Mayan Human Sacrifice [Re: mikebart101]
#7320371 - 08/22/07 12:05 AM (4 years, 9 months ago) |
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things kinda make me question if that was originally metaphorical and about self sacrifice and giving your heart to others. tho they could of just believed that so strongly why not rip out someones heart and kill em. even further stretch would be to say a people did it and wrote about it metaphorically thru pictures then another culture came in saw then and repeated it but physically and their stuff remained. but most likely they really physically did this stuff and it shows strong devotion. the King would run a throned rope thru his genitals or tongue after cutting a hole in it then the blood was burn as a sacrific to the gods. ouch
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"You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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