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 spun
a traveller ofboth time andspace
 
Registered: 07/04/07
Posts: 71
Last seen: 4 months, 8 days
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 Re: More Anti-Pot Bullshit in the News. [Re: ToiletDuk]
#7159902 - 07/11/07 09:10 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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dude she probably just got the munchies, tried to have a BBQ and BAM, dead
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 fastfred
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 4,366
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: More Anti-Pot Bullshit in the News. [Re: ToiletDuk]
#7160754 - 07/11/07 12:55 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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> why everyone on this board keeps acts like this is not true is beyond me,
Come up with citations before you spew bullshit like this. Phantom studies and DARE propaganda mean nothing. I thought everyone here is smarter than being fooled like that.
It's simply another level of WOD propaganda. They've failed to prove any harmful physical effects from MJ, so now they are trying to scare people with bogus mental effects. Study after REAL study has come out proving weed is a safe and effective medicine with almost no negative side effects. In their embarrassment the government has switched tactics.
I wouldn't be surprised if you could dig up some dubious pseudo-study showing a very weak correlation, but I hope even you realize that correlation does not in any way imply causation.
-FF
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badchad
Stranger
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 2,833
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Re: More Anti-Pot Bullshit in the News. [Re: fastfred]
#7160961 - 07/11/07 01:48 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I'd be pretty curious to see several of the "real" studies showing marijuana is safe and effective with almost no side effects.
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fastfred
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 4,366
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: More Anti-Pot Bullshit in the News. [Re: ToiletDuk]
#7161588 - 07/11/07 03:28 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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If you followed this forum you would have seen several already this year.
People refuse to acknowledge the facts because the government propaganda is so well drilled into their heads. Even the most informed people still falsely believe that smoking MJ causes cancer.
I'll post some links for you shortly.
-FF
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badchad
Stranger
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 2,833
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Re: More Anti-Pot Bullshit in the News. [Re: fastfred]
#7161705 - 07/11/07 03:51 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I don't believe I've ever seen an actual peer-reviewed scientific study posted here.
Usually it is news reports, rather than the actual study, which is why I was particularly interested.
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fastfred
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 4,366
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: More Anti-Pot Bullshit in the News. [Re: ToiletDuk]
#7161770 - 07/11/07 03:59 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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Here are excerpts of a report from 1995. People have known the truth for a long time, it just needs to get out there.
There have been several dozen studies I've seen since which all show the same things. Dozens of diseases now have scientific studies showing that MJ helps treat their symptoms.
I don't have time to go into all of it, but if you have any specific claims of negative effects I'll look into it. As far as I know the only negative effects are very minor and non-permanent. The biggest one I can think of is temporary short-term memory impairment.
The other claim is cancer, but several studies have shown NO INCREASE in the risk of cancer vs non-smokers. Even the dirty, dishonest NIDA won't claim that it causes cancer. What's funny is that they try to claim it without actually saying it. They try this bullshit even though they know it's dishonest.
From NIDA site...
http://www.nida.nih.gov/MarijBroch/Marijteens.html
Quote:
Q: What are the long-term effects of marijuana use?
A: Findings so far show that regular use of marijuana or THC may play a role in some kinds of cancer and in problems with the respiratory and immune systems.
Cancer
It’s hard to know for sure whether regular marijuana use causes cancer. But it is known that marijuana contains some of the same, and sometimes even more, of the cancer-causing chemicals found in tobacco smoke. Studies show that someone who smokes five joints per day may be taking in as many cancer-causing chemicals as someone who smokes a full pack of cigarettes every day (15) .
If you look at their site you can see that everything they're saying is a lie and has been soundly countered with valid scientific reasoning since 1995!
BTW the 5 joints = 20 cigarettes claim is based on a study of vasoconstriction in the lungs. The lead researcher in the study has said that his study in no way shows 5 joints to be as bad as a pack of smokes. He has even asked the government to stop citing his study as the basis for that claim.
If you check out the paper below you'll see each and every claim refuted with studies cited and logical reasoning applied. Check out the footnotes if you would like to see citations for the 92 papers used.
Exposing Marijuana Myths: A Review of the Scientific Evidence
http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/hemp/general/mjmyth/exposing_index_1095.html
Lynn Zimmer
Associate Professor of Sociology, Queens College
John P. Morgan
Professor of Pharmacology, City University of New York Medical School
October 1995
CLAIM No. 1: MARIJUANA USE IS INCREASING AT AN ALARMING RATE
CLAIM No. 2: MARIJUANA POTENCY HAS INCREASED SUBSTANTIALLY
CLAIM No. 3: MARIJUANA IS A DRUG WITHOUT THERAPEUTIC VALUE
CLAIM No. 4: MARIJUANA CAUSES LUNG DISEASE
CLAIM No. 5: MARIJUANA IMPAIRS IMMUNE SYSTEM FUNCTIONING
CLAIM No. 6: MARIJUANA HARMS SEXUAL MATURATION AND REPRODUCTION
CLAIM No. 7: MARIJUANA USE DURING PREGNANCY HARMS THE FETUS
CLAIM No. 8: MARIJUANA CAUSES BRAIN DAMAGE
CLAIM No. 9: MARIJUANA IS AN ADDICTIVE DRUG
CLAIM No.10: MARIJUANA-RELATED MEDICAL EMERGENCIES ARE INCREASING
CLAIM No.11: MARIJUANA PRODUCES AN AMOTIVATIONAL SYNDROME
CLAIM No.12: MARIJUANA IS A MAJOR CAUSE OF HIGHWAY ACCIDENTS
CLAIM No.13: MARIJUANA IS A "GATEWAY" TO THE USE OF OTHER DRUGS
CLAIM No.14: DUTCH MARIJUANA POLICY HAS BEEN A FAILURE
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truekimbo2
ghost of an alien robot
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 4,971
Loc: ny
Last seen: 4 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: More Anti-Pot Bullshit in the News. [Re: fastfred]
#7162190 - 07/11/07 05:32 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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sorry i would have posted more but i got bored.
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16060596&query_hl=22" target="_blank">Toward a world consensus on prevention of schizophrenia.</a>
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16060596&query_hl=22" target="_blank">Toward a world consensus on prevention of schizophrenia.</a>
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15976013&query_hl=22" target="_blank">Risk for schizophrenia--broadening the concepts, pushing back the boundaries.</a>
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15976013&query_hl=22" target="_blank">The environment and schizophrenia: the role of cannabis use.</a>
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15947217&query_hl=22" target="_blank">Predictors of schizophrenia--a review.</a>
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15871146&query_hl=22" target="_blank">Cannabis as a risk factor for psychosis: systematic review.</a>
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15820332&query_hl=22" target="_blank">Cannabis use prior to first onset psychosis predicts spared neurocognition at 10-year follow-up.</a>
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15801393&query_hl=22" target="_blank">[Acute and chronic cognitive disorders caused by cannabis use]</a>
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15780846&query_hl=22" target="_blank">Delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol effects in schizophrenia: implications for cognition, psychosis, and addiction.</a>
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15763748&query_hl=22" target="_blank">Cannabis use and psychotic disorders: an update.</a>
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15682431&query_hl=22" target="_blank">Is cannabis an anti-antipsychotic? The experience in psychiatric intensive care.</a>
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15611887&query_hl=22" target="_blank">Cannabis and risk of psychosis.</a>
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15517706&query_hl=22" target="_blank">[Cannabis can double the risk of schizophrenia. Increasing but still controversial knowledge of the psychological effects of the drug]</a>
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15381886&query_hl=22" target="_blank">Is the party over? Cannabis and juvenile psychiatric disorder: the past 10 years.</a>
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15233568&query_hl=22" target="_blank">Cannabis use and risk of psychosis: an etiological link?</a>
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15052390&query_hl=22" target="_blank">Heavy cannabis users seeking treatment- prevalence of psychiatric disorders.</a>
<a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14992976&query_hl=22" target="_blank">Cannabis use and age at onset of schizophrenia.<br>
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I'm trapped with a mad man. look at him, staring into me, filling my mind with paranoid thoughts
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fastfred
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 4,366
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: More Anti-Pot Bullshit in the News. [Re: ToiletDuk]
#7162892 - 07/11/07 08:22 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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You didn't do the links right... 
Some of the studies you posted are not in english and several are just literature reviews, not actual studies.
All of the cited literature suffers from logical problems, specifically confounding factors and no evidence to support causality. Just from reading some of the abstracts and looking at the funding sources it's also clear that most of them are highly biased in favor of drumming up evidence in support of the WOD.
Association does not imply causation! There are many examples of falsely implying causation in the literature. It's been said many times that people with mental illness have a tendency to self medicate. The same studies could just as easily show alcohol and prescription drug abuse to "cause" mental illness.
Then there are also all the many possible confounding factors. Alcohol abuse is a good example. Alcoholics have an increased rate of suicide, but the confounding factor is that most of them were also raised in an alcoholic and dysfunctional family. It's pretty clear that the dysfunctional families are the cause of the suicide rate rather than the alcohol abuse. It's a classic case of putting the cart before the horse. There could still be some causation, but any study not designed to account for the confounding factors will show a falsely high rate of correlation.
Anyhow, perhaps the most damning evidence against these studies is that while MJ use has increased and decreased over the years the rate of schizophrenia has remained steady. Good epidemiological research which compares rates of MJ use with rates of mental illness are needed, but hard to do. These shoddy studies based on asking the mentally ill if they've smoked weed mean absolutely nothing scientifically.
It's also interesting to note that while the US has one of the most aggressive anti-drug policies it also has the highest rate of mental illness.
-FF
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jeverden
Mushroom Hunter
Registered: 05/10/06
Posts: 1,111
Last seen: 10 hours, 21 minutes
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Re: More Anti-Pot Bullshit in the News. [Re: fastfred]
#7163485 - 07/11/07 10:14 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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These articles sell papers. That's why there still around.
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All of my posts are purely fictional and for hypothetical purposes.
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truekimbo2
ghost of an alien robot
Registered: 12/08/02
Posts: 4,971
Loc: ny
Last seen: 4 hours, 37 minutes
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Re: More Anti-Pot Bullshit in the News. [Re: fastfred]
#7163501 - 07/11/07 10:18 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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fastfred, i agree with you, i do not believe they have proven causation. i wouldn't even make a big deal out of it, except the people in the psychedelic experiance forum completely deny that its even a possibility.
i vaguely recall people posting about psychotic (i'm just using that term because you'll get what i'm saying) episodes they had and everyone instantly declaring that they were prone to mental illness anyways and it taking the drugs had absolutely nothing to do with it.
at this point i just don't think fair to say weed is completely safe.
honestly i'm not going to hunt down more link, if you type marijuana and skitzophrenia into google you'll find alot of articles. i remeber at least one had a study that had been controlled for predispoition to skitzophrenia and other drug use, that found that weed smokers had higher rates of mental illnes.
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I'm trapped with a mad man. look at him, staring into me, filling my mind with paranoid thoughts
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fastfred
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 4,366
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: More Anti-Pot Bullshit in the News. [Re: ToiletDuk]
#7163922 - 07/11/07 11:22 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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> at this point i just don't think fair to say weed is completely safe.
You shouldn't just assume that something that's been used by man for thousands of years without a single death to be dangerous. The burden of proof is on the claimant.
If you look hard enough at anything you can find "dangers".
> the people in the psychedelic experience forum completely deny that its even a possibility.
Weed is a psychoactive substance, so to think that it would have no effect on the mind or that everyone will react the same way to it is foolish. Many "mental illnesses" have no physiological basis so you really open a can of worms when you try to say that something causes them. It is the user's reaction rather than the drug that would cause any of the effects we're talking about, so I really don't think it's fair to say that weed can cause mental illness.
Psychotic episodes can be precipitated by almost anything. I'm sure we can all think of examples where some very minor event has resulted in anxiety attacks, depression, rage, or psychosis. I've seen people totally freak out and have psychotic episodes from total non-events such as a paper cut or an irritating noise. You really can't just go around blaming every little event or experience for your reactions to them.
Schizophrenia is 80% genetic and exists at a constant rate of 1-2% in the general population. Those two factors make it almost certain that weed doesn't cause it. It's largely genetic and exists at the same rate regardless of changes in drug use patterns.
The current consensus is that the non-genetic component is due to biological stressors. They've been pointing fingers around for a long time about what those might be. Toxins, stress, diet, occupation, activity level, etc. have all been implicated at one time or another.
Here is a good page on the causes of schizophrenia.
http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php?xmlFilePath=journals/ijmh/vol2n1/genetic.xml
You'll see that there are so many factors that have been linked to schizophrenia that it's just plain ridiculous.
Another point is that weed is highly effective for treating a good number of mental illnesses, so it's net effect is surely positive.
Another thing is the way that diagnoses are thrown about nowdays. Once they set up a diagnosis criterion in the DSM for "cannabis induced psychosis" it all of a sudden gets diagnosed all the time and anyone who has a psychotic episode and has smoked cannabis at some point gets slapped with it.
It used to be that you'd just say that somebody got too high and "freaked out". Now it's "cannabis induced psychosis". It's just another way of trying to put weed in a bad light.
When they get called on their lies about negative physical effects the WOD zealots just turn to non-physical scare tactics. I'm sure we'll see more and more pseudo-studies trying to link weed to everything from apathy to xenophobia.
You have to take the studies with a grain of salt. They've linked tobacco to delaying alzheimer's and secondhand smoke to increasing dementia. Pretty soon everything that's unpopular will be linked to every other unpopular thing.
-FF
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SeanQuixote
Stranger
Registered: 02/19/05
Posts: 9
Last seen: 6 months, 21 days
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Re: More Anti-Pot Bullshit in the News. [Re: fastfred]
#7164440 - 07/12/07 01:12 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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This article would be more convincing if it said that she lit the barbeque and forgot to open a door or window because she was high, rather than trying to claim that smoking pot caused her supposed psychosis.
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KangKoopa
Kang OfToadstool Land
Registered: 08/21/06
Posts: 212
Loc: Some where down river
Last seen: 6 months, 28 days
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Re: More Anti-Pot Bullshit in the News. [Re: SeanQuixote]
#7164829 - 07/12/07 03:47 AM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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I understand my short term memory is fucked... i thought it was because of that one X pill i took.. i then thought i havent felt the same but its been 3 yrs my memory continues to worsen, i've even taken alheimers test (not by doctor but memory tests for it) and passed. so im guessing im living life not recording it... so i dont remember alot of details on certain things that happened more then a yr ago... but thats probably from me not really paying attention...
I smoke atleast an Ounce a week minumn the most i smoke is a QP a Week.. but sometimes i quit cold turkey for a week i know thats got to fuck with my brain...
i been raging like a steriod addict latley i been doing a lil research on the herb and effects. but i use to bug out as a little kid so i doubt that it has to do with herb... i know smoking herb and being high on herb is the best mindframe i can be in.. i wouldnt act out so fast with anger at all and would handle situations better so as far as being high dont see someone being mental while high it might cause long term effects though while not high
thats the only chance that weed is fucking with me other then my memory.
bitch sounds like she was smoking crack or meth to get delusional thoughts of folks after her... thats typical crank whore shit
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"Stability is Luxury"
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fastfred
Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 4,366
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: More Anti-Pot Bullshit in the News. [Re: ToiletDuk]
#7168977 - 07/12/07 11:27 PM (1 year, 4 months ago) |
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> I smoke atleast an Ounce a week minumn the most i smoke is a QP a Week..
Then you are high all day, every day. There's no doubt that it affects your memory. Memory must make it into short term before it can be stored in long term memory.
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