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OfflineLion
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There is this girl
    #6812895 - 04/20/07 02:19 PM (6 years, 30 days ago)

I know that I love her. And she has been the cause for me to change my life from negative to positive.

I have struggled and made huge progress in ridding myself of jealousy, of fear of inadequacy, of accepting and even loving others unconditionally; I have struggled to turn language into water whereby I can gently nurture the flowers that I see sprouting everywhere around me. I have done all this and it has been so hard and so wonderful.

Today I know in my heart that if you love someone you have to let them go. I can never make someone love me, never make decisions for someone, and I am tired of my ego games trying to selfishly guide her toward me. I am tired of being selfish and of longing to be un-selfish. Today I will just be, dammit. Happy 420.


--------------------


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: There is this girl [Re: Lion]
    #6812911 - 04/20/07 02:22 PM (6 years, 30 days ago)

Interesting story. Is there a fan club?


--------------------

:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineleery11
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Re: There is this girl [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6812938 - 04/20/07 02:32 PM (6 years, 30 days ago)

i think it has to be let go too, but there is the tantalizing peak of a love so full it could send us allways......

ideally this love is best fixated upon a deity but you don't get to have a physical deity to interact with unless you find a guru


--------------------
Om bhur bhuvaha swaha tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi, dhiyo yonah prachodyat.
We meditate upon that supreme light , the source of all creation, may it illumine our intellects and bring us eternal life.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: There is this girl [Re: Lion]
    #6812983 - 04/20/07 02:49 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

And she has been the cause for me to change my life from negative to positive.

Is there a huge red flag smiley I can use here.

The change is illusionary and delusional. We only change from within. Outside events do not save us from ourselves.

This story is as old as Adam and Eve. Today she's the savior, tomorrow or in 5 years she's the cause of all your unhappiness.


--------------------

"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous

“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson


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OfflineLion
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Re: There is this girl [Re: Icelander]
    #6813042 - 04/20/07 03:11 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

Which is why I am letting go.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: There is this girl [Re: Lion]
    #6813055 - 04/20/07 03:17 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

Good on ya!

Good things await.:thumbup::heart:


--------------------

"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous

“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: There is this girl [Re: Icelander]
    #6813240 - 04/20/07 04:35 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

I agree with you, Icelander, that change does largely come from oneself, but other people can inspire it. We live in the world, and are constantly influenced by our relationships with others. These relationships can (and usually do) have a profound impact, positive or negative, on the way we percieve things and experience reality. I realize that any changes I make are a matter of my own agency, yet still credit those who have done a lot to inspire/support/love me for the role they have played in my life.

Bug, that's great that this girl has inspired you so much, and it's also great that you are coming to accept that she isn't going to fall in love with you, and are accepting that you must move on. Once you've made the decision it's a lot easier! Good luck.


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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: There is this girl [Re: Icelander]
    #6813261 - 04/20/07 04:44 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
And she has been the cause for me to change my life from negative to positive.

Is there a huge red flag smiley I can use here.

The change is illusionary and delusional.  We only change from within. Outside events do not save us from ourselves.





1- Calling people delusional is kind of rude. I would say it borders on flaming. (don't worry though, I won't tell the mods :wink:

2- Are you a psychologist, do you even know anything about modern psychology at all? Because according to studies what you say is completely bogus.

For example, there is clear documented evidence that your relations to your siblings determines your political views, that the culture you grow up in determines your religious views, that the nation you grow up in determines your level of happiness.

If you really believe the above go move to a cave somewhere and stop posting on shroomery forums. I mean it is rather silly to say you aren't effected/in need of society and then spend so much time participating in it. If people are really irrelevant to you, why are you deciding to be around them so often? There are few things more annoyingly inconsistent then a missionary egoist.

People effect each other all the time at a very fundamental level because we evolved to be social animals. As Veritas noted, I takes more then one village idiot to raise a child.

Or as Karl Popper put it:

"Before we as individuals are even conscious of our existence we have been profoundly influenced for a considerable time (since before birth) by our relationship to other individuals who have complicated histories, and are members of a society which has an infinitely more complicated and longer history than they do (and are members of it at a particular time and place in that history); and by the time we are able to make conscious choices we are already making use of categories in a language which has reached a particular degree of development through the lives of countless generations of human beings before us. . . . We are social creatures to the inmost centre of our being. The notion that one can begin anything at all from scratch, free from the past, or unindebted to others, could not conceivably be more wrong."



--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin


Edited by FrenchSocialist (04/20/07 05:20 PM)


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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: There is this girl [Re: Lion]
    #6813268 - 04/20/07 04:48 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

I think what you should do is try to remain friends. Trying to interfere in her life is somewhat abusive. I'm glad she has such a positive effect on you, and she can continue to do so even if you are friends- perhaps you should let her know that in fact. Not that you want to date her necessarily, but that you feel inspired by her.

Also, I think it's very wise for you to realize that you can't make her love you. Rarely can a single person alter another's personality at a fundamental level (by any means save for abuse). However you can effect each other's levels of happiness- that is why evolutionary (modern) psychologists consider a parents primary role to be that of making sure their child is secure and happy- not to mold their personality.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin


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OfflineLion
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Re: There is this girl [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6813424 - 04/20/07 05:58 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

It is hard to discover how little strength I truly feel I have on my own, how little I have really grown at all. It has all been dependent on something outside of me, a concept and an intuition. She always talks to me at the right time, always gives me just enough to keep on going, but we are separate. It is funny how my brain can take her words and turn them into a story with such a sure and beautiful ending, and then I wake up for a few minutes and realize that in my heart of hearts I am alone, and it has ever been thus.


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: There is this girl [Re: Lion]
    #6813445 - 04/20/07 06:13 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

It's something we all seem to go through. Given 20 or 30 years it will start to get better.;)


--------------------

"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous

“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: There is this girl [Re: Icelander]
    #6813451 - 04/20/07 06:17 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

Like when I am 80?


--------------------


This is your caterpillar on DMT. Any questions?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: There is this girl [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6813463 - 04/20/07 06:29 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

Hopefully yes.


--------------------

"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous

“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: There is this girl [Re: Icelander]
    #6813472 - 04/20/07 06:34 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

I will be a real hit in the nursing home.

Just call me Rrrrico, Rrrrrico Suaaaaaaaa-ve!


--------------------


This is your caterpillar on DMT. Any questions?


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: There is this girl [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #6813616 - 04/20/07 07:51 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

FrenchSocialist said:
1- Calling people delusional is kind of rude. I would say it borders on flaming. (don't worry though, I won't tell the mods :wink:




He stated that the change was delusional. He never referred to the person as being delusional, and it was in response to the other poster's statement regarding the change. If you feel that it was not delusional, then feel free to engage in open discussion regarding his pronouncement regarding the change.


--------------------

:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinemoon_glue
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Re: There is this girl [Re: Lion]
    #6813781 - 04/20/07 08:53 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

don't make so much of it. just realize people come and go. When their ready to leave, wish them well.


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OfflineAtman
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Re: There is this girl [Re: moon_glue]
    #6815527 - 04/21/07 12:41 PM (6 years, 29 days ago)

Well bug this is very interesting

I can see you love her so I'm going to tell you a little secret.

Don't ever give up!!!

If you really love her then you will never let her go, be brave and
commit everything. You are almost there. Most importantly don't let that doubt in, recognize it and let it go as soon as it comes up. Keep your intention and focus on those happy and magical thoughts that you mentioned, you might have heard that magic is about the will. What is your will?

I can talk about this because your post drew my eye since I am in a similar position to you (and some coincidental points too).
You are not being selfish to want that love. Don't kid yourself thats self-sabotage. I have been through that stage too. Its not real.

I was very suicidal and went beyond that even because I just knew that I couldn't for the sake of my family and friends kill myself to find relief. I tried to let her go as you talk of -many times in mind and in ritual, but I could not. Early on I had a few trips to try to help me through it and gain insight or even release. Salvia, shrooms and hws. None of them were able to help me. I have given up all these drugs including dope since they were not of any use to me or even enjoyable anymore.

I became a living carcass not enjoying or interested in anything. Having been on the so called spiritual path for 25 years or so I found that to be fruitless as I did no longer seek any form of enlightenment or understanding. Every day I just felt a longing in my heart that could not be filled it seemed, my first waking moments of the day often filled with the recognition of hopelessness causing me to wake into a tear filled state to set the mood of the day.

She was the goddess kali and she had devoured me kicking and screaming and I wouldn't have it any other way. She killed me so perfectly and deliciously. I am her devotee at heart for eternity.

So waxing between delirious happiness and souless emptiness I passed my time doing ordinary things like going to work, but my thoughts of her truly did occupy 99% of my thoughts. To think of anything else required a prompt in reality. I would just think that this is how the rest of my life will be -no hope. Moving from tears and anguish into a zombie like state I tried to tell myself that same thing your talking about. "Trying to get someone to love me is selfish" or "Because I love them so much, they deserve someone better than me"

What a load of crap!

Love is asking for love

Love attracts love

God is love

So how can any state or being be separate from that right of love?

You deserve love and all you have to do is ask for it and your own true self nature will provide it.

I imbibed the ultimate hallucinogen, love and it is a trip with an unknown duration and effects that include permanent altering of reality. Isn't that an attractive thing to most here?

It is far more powerful than salvia or DMT.

What I am saying is that I have entered into this relationship with the goddess (god, universe, true self etc) and that this woman is that and that my love for her (god etc) has become a process of transforming my reality that is nothing short of incredible. Realizing her ultimate nature does not subtract from her apparently existing separate form.

--->side note here
Remember that existence and life is a complete mystery, all we can say about it in truth is that it is god or the universe or something like that. We can never be sure of anything even the apparent existence of others or even ourselves. I don't even know if anyone is really out there reading this, but it does not matter since there is only god and thats is the irreducible point right, I mean another guy who took 23g of shrooms and posted about it here was on similar sort bent.
<---

So by making that point I can convey the uselessness of seeing a psychologist in my case to try get help. lol. To clarify my understanding that we can never be truly objective about our experience leads me to assume a psychologist will never be of any real help when a metaphysical crisis(awakening) is about to manifest.

I am not saying that I have been enlightened or anything like that I couldn't careless for that shit.
Its that this process that I am implicated in (life) has changed and it is because of this event(girl) and I suspect that it may this way for you brother by the way you have represented yourself in this thread.

Even though it is sort of basic I recommend you read "Conversations with God", this book in parts spoke directly to me. I have read many philosphy and spiritual books including a lot of the crazy books by Adi Da and the above book was still very pertinent.

Well by this point in the post some of you will be convinced I am a crazy deranged lunatic so I will not stop here.

So after all that I find this woman in this very human form to be very appealing to my heart and I will never stop loving her no matter the pain, no matter how old and decrepit I get. She has mastered me, for the first time in my life I desire no other woman
It has been the hardest thing in my life this and it nearly killed me many times with its intensity. I may now look like the complete fool all totally wrong but I will not trade it. I have complete faith in the One who has brought this about. There is no doubt.

There is no such thing as coincidence

What will you do?


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Offlinepalmersc
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Re: There is this girl [Re: Atman]
    #6816226 - 04/21/07 04:49 PM (6 years, 28 days ago)

your post reads just like this book i read in school by goethe about some dude named werther. you are not the first to feel this way.

i have had times where i felt like this only to realize that my love was not really love. more like grasping for somebody i had created in my mind.

this desire caused me much suffering. this goddess you worship can be found in all beings. this girl does not have a monopoly on love.


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OfflineSyle
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Re: There is this girl [Re: Lion]
    #6816710 - 04/21/07 08:23 PM (6 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

bug said:
I know that I love her.  And she has been the cause for me to change my life from negative to positive.

I have struggled and made huge progress in ridding myself of jealousy, of fear of inadequacy, of accepting and even loving others unconditionally; I have struggled to turn language into water whereby I can gently nurture the flowers that I see sprouting everywhere around me.  I have done all this and it has been so hard and so wonderful.

Today I know in my heart that if you love someone you have to let them go.  I can never make someone love me, never make decisions for someone, and I am tired of my ego games trying to selfishly guide her toward me.  I am tired of being selfish and of longing to be un-selfish.  Today I will just be, dammit.  Happy 420.




good for you. attachments, especially those which you have no control over, are not healthy. i used to be in your shoes, sort of am still. not sure if it will ever fade, perhaps hope cannot be killed  :wink:

good luck my friend


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OfflineFrenchSocialist
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Re: There is this girl [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6816927 - 04/21/07 10:01 PM (6 years, 28 days ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
He stated that the change was delusional. He never referred to the person as being delusional,




"de·lude /dɪˈlud/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[di-lood] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object), -lud·ed, -lud·ing.
1. to mislead the mind or judgment of; deceive: His conceit deluded him into believing he was important."

To my knowledge that can only apply to a person. Like I said it's no big deal, I'm just noting that he is calling the person delusional. You can't call abstract words delusional because they don't have minds, I believe indirect insults like that are called innuendo.

"An innuendo is a remark or question, typically disparaging, that works obliquely by allusion. The intention is often to insult or accuse someone in such a way that one's words, taken literally, are innocent. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innuendo


"Allusion is a stylistic device or trope, in which one refers covertly or indirectly to an object or circumstance that has occurred or existed in an external context. It is left to the reader or hearer to make the connection"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allusion

I'll leave it to the reader to make the connection with the definitions presented above.

Again, like I said it's no big deal. He insulted someone by innuendo, but as it doesn't seem completely intentional, I don't think the mods have to get involved. No harm, no foul. "Beatles down." =)


P.S. Perhaps he meant the person's statements were "deluded", in which case personalism is indeed avoided though at the cost of a grammatical error- a common mistake- which is why I don't think the innuendo was purposeful. I just interpreted as more of a description of the person's mind set as I presumed a libertarian would find a person who believed they were changed by others delusional (as well as their ideas deluded). Again I'm not making any direct accusations, I just think there were mixed intentions.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin


Edited by FrenchSocialist (04/21/07 10:25 PM)


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