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 mikemushroom
Castaneda Fan
Registered: 02/24/07
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 Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: Amberthefrog]
#6763202 - 04/08/07 10:35 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Mushroomtrip-
You said that information does no good, but then you say that people in the cultivation room find that info is good. But they found that at their own conclusion? So, is it only by individual conclusions that one can say knowledge is good? Doesn't it take knowledge, in the first place, to reach a conclusion or even search for one, or draw a hypothesis? Maybe I am misunderstanding what exactly you are saying...
With all the restriction talk...are you aware that more people have died at the hands of athiest (with no moral values-not to be confused with atheist in general) than all forms of religion combined? Restrictions are the result of the moral minds of a collection of individuals. It is what seperates us from the animals. I would like to think there is more to be the human psyche than survival of the fittest. Are you justifying Hitler and bin Laden? I hope not.
MM
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Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.
Read his library of books to expand your mind.
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mikemushroom
Castaneda Fan
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Posts: 597
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: Amberthefrog]
#6763261 - 04/08/07 10:51 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Amberthefrog said:
Interesting read, some good posts.
Quote:
maybe evil doesnt exist and is just in the mind of beholder?
As someone said earlier.
In my opinion this just about sums it up regardless of the existence of a god or not. 'Good' and 'evil' are incredibly fallible concepts that vary greatly depending on society, culture and religion. At the end of the day all morals are based on specific presumptions either directly or indirectly, these presumptions cannot be justified therefore neither can the morals on a basic level. You can build up a case where by a moral is granted a specific quantity or strength, but at the end of the day such quantities are only going to be defined by the volume of other concepts that contradict/enforce them...all of which are again based on presumptions. Whilst one can interpret a 'logical' value to such cases it is a double bladed sword, the amount of presumptions something is based upon is equivalent to how correct/incorrect these assumptions are.
The obvious flaws are 1) such assumptions cannot be deemed correct/incorrect. 2) there are, in fact, limitless presumptions in all cases so any value system is in such a case meaningless.
I think to sum it up, you are talking about the paradigms of different cultures. I agree. Belief systems are built upon the principle values of a collective group. Obviously, unless whomever is a mental case, these ideas are not necessarily pluralistic in nature. This is why people are hated, killed, and so on. I believe in the ideas that Jesus taught. His philosophies are appreciated by muslims, jews, etc. They believe he was a good teacher.
I would hate to think any given moral belief is rendered meaningless. I have never heard of a war where morals, or lack thereof, wasn't the catalyst. Meaningless is a strong term in this case, but I do understand what you are saying.
Yep, it is a good read. Very neat to see peoples point of views, and gain some knowledge. Right MushroomTrip? j/k.
MM
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Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.
Read his library of books to expand your mind.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
  
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 7,104
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 1 hour, 12 minutes
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: mikemushroom]
#6763300 - 04/08/07 11:01 PM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
You said that information does no good, but then you say that people in the cultivation room find that info is good. But they found that at their own conclusion? So, is it only by individual conclusions that one can say knowledge is good? Doesn't it take knowledge, in the first place, to reach a conclusion or even search for one, or draw a hypothesis? Maybe I am misunderstanding what exactly you are saying...
When it comes to science I see no way that discoveries are made by the individual because, as I stated earlier but probably didn't pay attention, science is NOT something subjective. It has the same "schemes" for everybody.
Mystical experiences don't
Just as well as any other emotion.
For example, you love for somebody can never be the same as somebody else's feeling of love, or lack of love, of hate, or confusion.
As foe explaining you the rest of your questions I see it a rather futile cause because I already answered you earlier, pay much attention to my arguments.
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This party is old and uninviting
Participants all in black and white
You enter in fullblown technicolor
Nothing is the same after tonight 
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secretmachine
lover of mystery
Registered: 08/27/04
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: MushroomTrip]
#6782516 - 04/13/07 10:11 AM (1 year, 6 months ago) |
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I believe there is no good or evil. Evil is a cultural phenomenon. For example, in a culture like some middle eastern areas, it is seen as holy to stone someone who cheats on their husband. Whereas we may see it as evil. Might be a bad example, but really everything has both a positive and negative side to it. Saying something is only one or the other is always false because there is nothing that has all negative (or all positive either) everything is a balance. Also, even if there was something that is pure negative, there will be something positive that also comes to balance it. Thats my 2 cents.
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Mycoangler
stranger to thisworld
Registered: 06/01/03
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#6786714 - 04/14/07 11:36 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Roger, I love your sig. pic.!
Just to shed a little more light on the Bible (no not the one in your pic, I wouldn't want to ruin your crop!) the Bible was not only written by man, but edited by the Catholic church. Not a reliable source of information IMHO.
However, you have proven that it is a good book, which can be put to practical use!
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blewmeanie
Sick of other peoples issues
Registered: 10/01/06
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: Mycoangler]
#6788109 - 04/14/07 06:17 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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1st Corinthians 10:23,24
"Everything is permissible—but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible—but not everything is constructive. Nobody should seek his own good, but the good of others."
But honestly, why does anyone care about such a contradictory book. Other than the fact that it makes up the belief system, and social structure of the vast majority of wealth and power in the world.
hail satan 
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Jean-Paul Sartre is sitting at a French cafe, revising his draft of Being and Nothingness. He says to the waitress, "I'd like a cup of coffee, please, with no cream." The waitress replies, "I'm sorry, monsieur, but we're out of cream. How about with no milk?"
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Archemetis
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Registered: 06/21/04
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: blewmeanie]
#6788430 - 04/14/07 07:45 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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iv come to see good and evil as varying degrees of the same phenomenon. much like light and dark. these forces are not opposing. they are one pole and on either end we have an extreme, though mostly what we expirience is a blend of the two. just as love and hate are of the same pole. you cannot hate if you cannot love. (i use the term love in the way that most human being understand the word) i do believe in a love that exists beyond the teeter totter of the
love-hate phenomenon. buddha called it compassion, christ called it love, but we do not understand these words in the way they use them. because we have no trancended our dual nature. man is split, thats where the illusion of duality comes from.
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mikemushroom
Castaneda Fan
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: secretmachine]
#6789330 - 04/15/07 01:10 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
secretmachine said:
I believe there is no good or evil. Evil is a cultural phenomenon. For example, in a culture like some middle eastern areas, it is seen as holy to stone someone who cheats on their husband. Whereas we may see it as evil. Might be a bad example, but really everything has both a positive and negative side to it. Saying something is only one or the other is always false because there is nothing that has all negative (or all positive either) everything is a balance. Also, even if there was something that is pure negative, there will be something positive that also comes to balance it. Thats my 2 cents.
Nothing thats all evil? How about 9/11 or child molestation?
I totally disagree.
MM
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Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.
Read his library of books to expand your mind.
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mikemushroom
Castaneda Fan
Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 597
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Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: Mycoangler]
#6789341 - 04/15/07 01:14 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycoangler said:
Roger, I love your sig. pic.!
Just to shed a little more light on the Bible (no not the one in your pic, I wouldn't want to ruin your crop!) the Bible was not only written by man, but edited by the Catholic church. Not a reliable source of information IMHO.
However, you have proven that it is a good book, which can be put to practical use!
The catholic edit is only found in catholic Bibles, the KJV, NKJV, and the Genneva Bible. All other versions are based on early Hebrew and Greek manuscripts. Read my 'Differences in Translations' post.
Don't post something that is neglectfully wrong about the Bible.
MM
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Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.
Read his library of books to expand your mind.
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Jaspar
Stranger
Registered: 04/10/07
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Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: mikemushroom]
#6789466 - 04/15/07 02:49 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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"Good without Evil" - you say it cannot exist together, and you say "what's the sweet without the bitter?" it's not sweet at all.
There's good, and then there's less good - no such thing as evil.
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Mycoangler
stranger to thisworld
Registered: 06/01/03
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Last seen: 25 days, 23 hours
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: mikemushroom]
#6791982 - 04/15/07 07:43 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Some of the versions that you mentioned are the only ones that a few Christian sects that I know of (other than Catholic) will accept as the "true" versions (especially KJV).
Quote:
Don't post something that is neglectfully wrong about the Bible.
Like every one else on here I can post whatever the hell I feel like posting about the Bible.
The Bible sucks!!! There! 
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mikemushroom
Castaneda Fan
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Posts: 597
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: Mycoangler]
#6792226 - 04/15/07 08:37 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mycoangler said:
Some of the versions that you mentioned are the only ones that a few Christian sects that I know of (other than Catholic) will accept as the "true" versions (especially KJV).
Quote:
Don't post something that is neglectfully wrong about the Bible.
Like every one else on here I can post whatever the hell I feel like posting about the Bible.
The Bible sucks!!! There!
You sure can and when you get called on it, you can type somemore about how the Bible sucks. Way to back up your statement.
MM
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Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.
Read his library of books to expand your mind.
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 7,104
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 1 hour, 12 minutes
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: mikemushroom]
#6792258 - 04/15/07 08:49 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Here I agree with you.
The bible doesn't suck if you take it with a grain of salt and stay open just for the real teachings.
However, the people who preach from it suck.
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This party is old and uninviting
Participants all in black and white
You enter in fullblown technicolor
Nothing is the same after tonight
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AlteredAgain
Open
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: MushroomTrip]
#6792349 - 04/15/07 09:11 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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i agree. preaching is like fast food for the mind. the thinking is already done for you. 
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 7,104
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: AlteredAgain]
#6792381 - 04/15/07 09:17 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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That's exactly what those who preach want from their "listeners"
Bhhheeeee 
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This party is old and uninviting
Participants all in black and white
You enter in fullblown technicolor
Nothing is the same after tonight
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AlteredAgain
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: MushroomTrip]
#6792389 - 04/15/07 09:20 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
That's exactly what those who preach want from their "listeners"
Bhhheeeee
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byte
Stranger
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: AlteredAgain]
#6792835 - 04/15/07 11:00 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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I believe the bible in the inspired word of God, as written, translated, edited and interpeted by Man. Needless to say, there are many truths in the bible, but I don't believe that every word is exactly how God meant it. I think that how we understand God in our lives, particularly in many of the organized churches I've attended, is extremely off.
I've found many of those who have referred to themselves as Christians in front of me are bigotted, hypocrytical, and judgemental of others. Jesus didn't teach only those with wealth, he didn't embrace only those who people who'd never made a mistake. Jesus tended to the lepers, prostiutes, beggers, all of the social outcasts as well.
Evil in this world is because of man. Bad things have always happened to people, they went hungry, there were diseases, there were natural disasters. But none of these were the result of evil. People make conscious decisions every day to hurt those around them, little things like bad-mouthing someone or lying, to murder, rape, etc., People make the decison to do evil things. They may justify their actions, or blame them on their background, or an abusive childhood, but ultimately, these people have the free will to make those decisions.
This goes from the individual who makes the decision to rob a convenience store, and shoots the clerk, to our elected officials who decide that they will bomb another country, even if it results in the deaths of thousands of innoncents. They call collateral damage. Calling a person Christian doesn't mean that they're incapable of of these actions.
I consider myself to be Christian, and I've had friends who called themselves christian, atheist, wiccan, shaman, you name it. Honestly, some of the non-Christians I've met acted more "Christian" than the so-called Christians.
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Igor
Shaved Ape
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: mikemushroom]
#6793047 - 04/15/07 11:50 PM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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- If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist?
IMO evil is a word- it is only interpreted by the individual. My concept of evil is probably quite different to yours and a lot more different to say president amadinerjad (or however u spell it)
As many people already said it's dualism nessesary for good to exist. Without evil there cannot be good becuase how would we know what is good if there's nothing to compare it to.
I don't think it is a matter of good and evil, just people and their experiences. I mean people living in the luxory of western society live better than kings did a few hundred year back. Compared to people starving in the third world we live fantastic and fortunate lives. Though people still squabble and stress over life's trivialities.
My housemate at university once said "I wish I was rich". I found it amusing that she didn't realise that, in fact, she is rich. We are all rich beyond the dreams of our ancestors yet we still think that we should have more.
My point... err I forgot..
Well I'll just point out that I think that as spirituallity plays little part in our modern life I think many followers of christianity don't really understand what it's about and just seem to interpret the bible too literally. I don't think it was ever intended to be literal, it was written by wise people to give people everything they required to keep them motivated, law abiding and socially cohesive. And as we are so inspired by the mysterious questions, it had to be God - an almighty authority to lay down these rules.
So, in conclusion. God set up the big bang and the physical laws that govern the universe. From these rules emerges complexity, and more complexity and man. God has no control, or perhaps his control is identified with the forces of nature. But anyway.. yes.. it is time for human kind to take a little responsibility for the "evils" in the world.
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My vision fell upon the seven tall candles upon the table. At first they wore the aspect of charity, and seemed white slender angels who would save me: but then all at once there came a most deadly nausea over my spirit, and I felt every fibre in my frame thrill, as if I had touched the wire of a galvanic battery, while the angel forms became meaningless spectres, with heads of flame, and I saw that from them there would be no help.
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mikemushroom
Castaneda Fan
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: MushroomTrip]
#6794073 - 04/16/07 09:16 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
Here I agree with you.
The bible doesn't suck if you take it with a grain of salt and stay open just for the real teachings.
However, the people who preach from it suck.
True, but not ALL preachers suck-j ust most of them. Wow we agree. lol
MM
--------------------
Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.
Read his library of books to expand your mind.
|
mikemushroom
Castaneda Fan
Registered: 02/24/07
Posts: 597
Loc: Outside Your Window
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: If God is great, and God is good.....then why does evil exist? [Re: mikemushroom]
#6794085 - 04/16/07 09:21 AM (1 year, 5 months ago) |
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I saw something about the Bible being considered literall whae it should not be. The truth is that each book must be examined by themselves. Psalms is different from Revelations is different from John is different from....
Each author had their own flare and wrote in their own way to relay truths. This is why hermeneutics is so important. I think that Christians, in general, misuse/misquote/misinterpret the Bible more than anyone else.
MM
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Want to be of the shaman mind? Carlos Castaneda is the godfather of the New Age Movement which is based off the peyote & shroom eating natives in Mexico.
Read his library of books to expand your mind.
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