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 delta9
Active Ingredient
Registered: 10/28/04
Posts: 5,238
Loc: California
Last seen: 1 month, 14 days
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 Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: Diploid]
#6777883 - 04/12/07 02:35 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said:
Remember that every OMG carries a million times more energy than what the LHC can put out, and billions of OMGs have been crashing into the Earth since the Earth formed.
I think the chances that a killer asteroid will clobber us are far greater.
But ALSO remember that these OMG particles are travelling through normal physics environments of which inside the LHC most definately IS NOT.
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delta9
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Salvia_Antics
Salvinorin Fiend
Registered: 01/28/07
Posts: 200
Loc: Blissed In
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Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: delta9]
#6781881 - 04/13/07 03:29 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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LoL I think it would be fun to be consumed by a black hole for my death.
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"Death is like walking into your mind"--Unknown
"The dream is dreaming itself"--Kalahari Bushmen
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
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Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: Salvia_Antics]
#6781985 - 04/13/07 04:59 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Salvia_Antics said:
LoL I think it would be fun to be consumed by a black hole for my death.
That brings a question to my mind: am I remembering incorrectly that immense gravity effects the passage of time?
I know that increase in absolute speed slows time, but correlation between gravity/time is just a vague "maybe" sitting in my brain.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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 Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: Konnrade]
#6782334 - 04/13/07 08:46 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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immense gravity effects the passage of time?
It does, but in the case of a stable micro black hole eating the Earth, the total mass and gravity of the system after Earth is gone will be equal to that of the original Earth because the micro black hole originally had very little mass compressed into an even smaller volume.
So the relativistic effects would be comparable to those caused by the ordinary Earth everywhere except very close to the black hole.
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of three Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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Konnrade
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Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: Diploid]
#6784343 - 04/13/07 06:47 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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So at least if the black hole consumed the earth, it wouldn't take so long to suck us in (from our perspective) that we'd die of exposure before even getting to be rended into homogenous atomic particles.
That's good to know.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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DieCommie
Ally
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Posts: 7,653
Loc: The Union
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Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: Konnrade]
#6785320 - 04/13/07 11:40 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konnrade said:I know that increase in absolute speed slows time
Just a note: That would be relative speed as there is no absolute speed.
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Behold yon miserable creature. That Point is a Being like ourselves, but confined to the non-dimensional Gulf. He is himself his own World, his own Universe; of any other than himself he can form no conception; he knows not Length, nor Breadth, nor Height, for he has had no experience of them; he has no cognizance even of the number Two; nor has he a thought of Plurality; for he is himself his One and All, being really Nothing. Yet mark his perfect self-contentment, and hence learn his lesson, that to be self-contented is to be vile and ignorant, and that to aspire is better than to be blindly and impotently happy.
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PhanTomCat
Wildcat that Never Was....
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 Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: Salvia_Antics]
#6791780 - 04/15/07 06:42 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Salvia_Antics said:
LoL I think it would be fun to be consumed by a black hole for my death.
I heard a description of what it would be like to pass the event horizon of a black hole....
The person said that it would stretch your body more and more until you were the thickness of a spaghetti noodle....
I am going to take a leap here and say, I think this must be where the Spaghetti Monster hangs out..... 
>^;;^<
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"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: PhanTomCat]
#6791799 - 04/15/07 06:49 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Eh, I've been consumed by my ex's black hole a few times. It wasn't bad at all. 
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of three Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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PhanTomCat
Wildcat that Never Was....
Registered: 09/07/04
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Last seen: 6 hours, 14 minutes
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Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: Diploid]
#6791810 - 04/15/07 06:52 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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--------------------
"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,629
Loc: LA Suburbs
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Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: DieCommie]
#6793591 - 04/16/07 04:25 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Konnrade said:I know that increase in absolute speed slows time
Just a note: That would be relative speed as there is no absolute speed.
I could make an objection to that founded mostly on semantics, but the odds of me being right are about the same as those of Schroedinger's cat being inside my pants.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
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Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: Konnrade]
#6793597 - 04/16/07 04:28 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konnrade said:
Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Konnrade said:I know that increase in absolute speed slows time
Just a note: That would be relative speed as there is no absolute speed.
I could make an objection to that founded mostly on semantics, but the odds of me being right are about the same as those of Schroedinger's cat being inside my pants.
As far as we know, the speed of light in vacuum is absolute...
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Just another spore in the wind.
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
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Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: Seuss]
#6796919 - 04/16/07 08:50 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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So, there is such a thing as absolute speed, righ?
With things such as speed, it's easy to get tangled up in a relativity quandary where everyone disagrees with each other 
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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DieCommie
Ally
Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 7,653
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Last seen: 5 hours, 10 minutes
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Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: Konnrade]
#6797041 - 04/16/07 09:15 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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There is when referring to the speed of light in a vacuum as Seuss pointed out. But in the context of your original post, time dilation, you do not use absolute speed you use relative speed. There is no absolute speed when discussing relativistic effects (time dilation) between two objects. An objects speed is only measured relative to some frame of reference. (Note you cannot use the speed of light for an absolute frame of reference, as the speed of light is the same for any intertial frame.)
Quote:
Konnrade said:With things such as speed, it's easy to get tangled up in a relativity quandary where everyone disagrees with each other
Only if somebody isnt up to snuff on their relativity. Which, given the intellectual prowess of this board, would probably be me 
--------------------
Behold yon miserable creature. That Point is a Being like ourselves, but confined to the non-dimensional Gulf. He is himself his own World, his own Universe; of any other than himself he can form no conception; he knows not Length, nor Breadth, nor Height, for he has had no experience of them; he has no cognizance even of the number Two; nor has he a thought of Plurality; for he is himself his One and All, being really Nothing. Yet mark his perfect self-contentment, and hence learn his lesson, that to be self-contented is to be vile and ignorant, and that to aspire is better than to be blindly and impotently happy.
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,629
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Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: DieCommie]
#6803016 - 04/18/07 05:57 AM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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Relativity makes me feel inadequate and obtuse... which is probably why I opted for chemistry rather than physics 
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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PhanTomCat
Wildcat that Never Was....
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Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: Konnrade]
#6804559 - 04/18/07 01:58 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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If you are feeling obtuse, you should go with Geometry.... 
>^;;^<
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"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
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Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: PhanTomCat]
#6805624 - 04/18/07 06:32 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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He who would pun would pick a pocket 
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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PhanTomCat
Wildcat that Never Was....
Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,808
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 6 hours, 14 minutes
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 Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: Konnrade]
#6805654 - 04/18/07 06:39 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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It was a difficult decision, but since I would pun, I choose my right front pocket.... 
>^;;^<
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"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."
>^;;^<
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA
Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 13,629
Loc: LA Suburbs
Last seen: 2 days, 8 hours
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Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: PhanTomCat]
#6811069 - 04/19/07 11:35 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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This is getting horribly off topic, but damn... that was a clever retort.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: Diploid]
#6816071 - 04/21/07 01:48 PM (1 year, 7 months ago) |
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20 April 2007
On Tuesday, March 27, structural supports to a Fermilab-built quadrupole magnet, one of an “inner triplet” of three focusing magnets, failed a high-pressure test in the tunnel of the LHC accelerator under construction at CERN. The force generated in the pressure test broke the supports in magnet Q1 that hold the magnet’s cold mass in place inside the cryostat, the magnet’s outer metal jacket. The support structure broke because it was not designed to withstand the amount of longitudinal force applied during the pressure test.
Redesign and repair
Since March, teams at CERN and Fermilab have worked closely together to identify the cause of the failure and to identify any other potential problems with U.S.-furnished components. The teams have identified several potential solutions.
The teams have also identified damage caused by the same pressure test to the cryogenic and power distribution box, or DFBX, the structure that feeds power and cryogenic fluids to the inner triplet magnets. Minor repairs will be needed to the DFBXs, which were supplied by Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory. LBNL scientists and engineers have joined the CERN-Fermilab team carrying out the design and implementation of these repairs.
A review to be conducted at CERN on April 24 and 25 will examine the selected repair methods to ensure that they will fix the problems. The reviewers will also look at the inner triplet system as a whole, as a second check against any unrecognized problems. Scientists and engineers from Fermilab and LBNL will participate in the review.
All of the repair solutions now under consideration for the magnet supports and the DFBX can be carried out without removing the equipment from the LHC tunnel, except for those components that failed the pressure test..
Solving the LHC magnet problem is Fermilab’s first priority. The laboratory has pledged to provide whatever engineering and technical support CERN requests. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory, Brookhaven National Laboratory and KEK Laboratory in Japan have also offered their help if it is needed.
What must be repaired?
The magnet repair will require supplementing the original support structure with one strong enough to hold the magnets in place when they experience longitudinal forces. The new support structure must also be designed so as to minimize the heat transmitted to the magnets, so that they can maintain their superconducting state at a temperature near absolute zero. Additional reinforcement must also be added to two locations within the piping inside the quadrupole, and to the DFBX.
The three superconducting quadrupole magnets and the DFBX that failed the pressure test at Point 5 will be removed to a surface building where they will be inspected and tested. The magnet known to be damaged, Q1, will be repaired. If necessary, the other two magnets in the triplet, Q2 and Q3, will also be repaired. They will be replaced in the tunnel by spare magnets.
Modifications must be made to all nine of the Q1 and Q3 magnets (two at each interaction region and plus one spare of each) and to all eight DFBXs. These modifications will be made without removing the components from the tunnel. The need to modify the third magnet of each triplet, Q2, is still being studied.
Fermilab and CERN will continue to provide updates on the LHC triplets as more information becomes available.
FAQ's
Did magnets explode during the pressure test?
No. Nothing exploded. The longitudinal force applied during the test caused a quadrupole magnet to move, stretching the pipe connecting it to the adjoining magnet. The pipe ruptured, making a loud noise and releasing helium gas.
Was anyone hurt?
No. Safety precautions were followed and no one was injured.
Did a mistake in mathematics cause the magnet failure?
No. In an engineering oversight, Fermilab magnet designers failed to take into account the strength of longitudinal forces on the magnet in designing the magnet’s support structure.
user.web.cern.ch
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of three Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
|
Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 9,909
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Wohoo! The Large Hadron Collider Is Almost Online! [Re: Diploid]
#7348552 - 08/29/07 01:44 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Update:
Inner Triplet Successfully Completes Pressure Test
An inner triplet assembly of quadrupole magnets at Point 8-Right of the LHC at CERN successfully completed a pressure test in the accelerator tunnel on Friday, July 13. The triplet, which included three quadrupole magnets and the associated cryogenic and power distribution box, or DFBX, met all test specifications at the requisite pressure of 25 atmospheres for one hour. The triplets will focus particle beams prior to particle collisions at each of four interaction regions in the Large Hadron Collider, now under construction at CERN.
The pressure test is designed to test the accelerator components in conditions that will occur during LHC operations. To withstand the asymmetrical forces generated by the pressure, the Q1 and Q3 magnets, at either end of the triplet assembly had each been fitted with a set of four metal cartridges. The cartridges reinforce internal support structures that broke in two such magnets during an earlier pressure test on March 27. The cartridges limit movement of the magnets inside their metal jackets, or cryostats.
Metal brackets attach the cartridges to one end of each of the affected magnets. The cartridges have a compound design consisting of an aluminum alloy tube and an Invar rod to allow them to function over a broad range of temperatures. Invar is a form of steel whose dimensions change very little in response to temperature differences.
A team from CERN, Fermilab, Japan's KEK laboratory and Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory also made changes to the DFBXs and to the attachment of the triplet to the tunnel floor to address design flaws that emerged during the March pressure test. These changes successfully completed the July 13 pressure test as well.
Fermilab, in collaboration with CERN and KEK, supplied eight sets of triplets, one for either side of each of the LHC's four interaction regions, plus one spare triplet. Currently about half the number of quadrupole magnets have been repaired, with the remaining repairs estimated to take about six weeks to complete. This will be followed by the installation of assemblies and interconnections between quadrupole magnets, DFBXs and the rest of the accelerator. The inner triplets will then become part of the different sectors of the LHC and will be tested as part of ongoing pressure tests of all sectors of the LHC.
Cooldown of sector 8-1, site of last week's successful pressure test, is expected to begin in late August.
fnal.gov (Fermilab Today)
--------------------
Wanna hear something depressing? One out of three Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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