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 oppression
potsmokeshroompopngunnut
Registered: 01/18/07
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 NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US]
#6486003 - 01/22/07 01:43 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Another step in the right direction to legalizing cannabis in the states. IMO this program will give norml the funds need to lobby on a national level like the aarp WOOT WOOT  , and the fact that insurance companies are starting to realize that there are no ill effects of marijuana use is a check in the win column .
http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=7128
Life Insurance For Responsible Marijuana Smokers!
For years responsible marijuana smokers have been unable to access affordable life insurance products. Because of cannabis prohibition and cultural stereotypes, adult marijuana smokers have been forced to lie on applications or forego the health benefits of responsible marijuana use. Those who were honest about their use of marijuana were flat out declined or rated so high that they could not afford the coverage they needed.
No Longer!
Recently one of our members contacted NORML with a problem. He was expanding his business and his bank required him to purchase additional life insurance. His local insurance agent told him that he must quit smoking marijuana to get the coverage he needed. That response was unacceptable to our member and it was unacceptable to NORML!
We contacted our insurance agent, Webb Hubbell, who was familiar with the insurance problems marijuana smokers face and wanted to find a solution. He contacted his affiliate, Marvin Address, and they took on the challenge. Marvin was able to convince a carrier to underwrite our member without the usual negative implications (i.e., higher premiums) of marijuana use. The member not only received the coverage he needed but also he was able to save additional money on the premiums he was paying for the coverage he had already in place.
NORML Uniquely Supports Cannabis Consumers!
As a result of this occurrence NORML, Webb, and Marvin decided that the time is ripe to make traditional insurance products available to responsible smokers without the usual negative implications. Two carriers have agreed to offer all of their traditional life insurance products at all levels without excluding individuals who smoke marijuana responsibly. Webb is hopeful that this program can ultimately be expanded to make available disability and health insurance products as well.
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‘Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example.’"
Edited by oppression (01/22/07 01:44 PM)
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dedjam
Electro Penguin
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: oppression]
#6486132 - 01/22/07 02:42 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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I am offered life insurance through my job, so its really no big deal....that said, id like to support norml, and if that means paying a little more than so be it. I am going to check this out.
Speaking of NORML, I didnt get my donations in like I wanted to this past year, guess I am going to have to double up this year. If someone out there is looking for a NPO to support come tax time, this is a great place to put your money.
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 Phish_Dude
steppin' into yesterday
Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 2,074
Loc: secret tweeker pad
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: dedjam]
#6486302 - 01/22/07 03:43 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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that is pretty sweet, maybe legalization isnt so far off after all
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Lost my mind just a couple of times.
Lost my mind just a couple of times.
You can spend your nickels, you can spend your dimes.
But I lost my mind just a couple of times.
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oppression
potsmokeshroompopngunnut
Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 92
Loc: south of the mason dixion...
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: Phish_Dude]
#6486326 - 01/22/07 03:51 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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At first glance I kind of thought this wasnt a big deal but I didnt realize that insurance companies drug tested you when you were taking out a life insurance policy along with the normal physical and if you fail that drug test they can deny you life insurance and the test results arent treated the same way a drug test for a job is treated with some measure of confidently instead that information is sold to an insurance database which deals in that type of "high risk" info and is distributed to other insurance companies and your put on an insurance blacklist of sorts just for smoking a lil weed.
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‘Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example.’"
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badchad
Stranger
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 2,833
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: oppression]
#6486358 - 01/22/07 04:00 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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I don't see the connection between life insurance and legalization.
I'd be interested to see what limits NORML put on their policy. What drugs exclude you from receiving NORML insurance. I bet the rate of polysubstance abuse in the marijuana smoking population is well above average. If this increases the mortalitly rate, then they'll go belly up quickly. This doesn't sound like a smart marketing move to me.
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oppression
potsmokeshroompopngunnut
Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 92
Loc: south of the mason dixion...
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: badchad]
#6486496 - 01/22/07 04:32 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said:
I don't see the connection between life insurance and legalization.
I'd be interested to see what limits NORML put on their policy. What drugs exclude you from receiving NORML insurance. I bet the rate of polysubstance abuse in the marijuana smoking population is well above average. If this increases the mortalitly rate, then they'll go belly up quickly. This doesn't sound like a smart marketing move to me.
Norml is a political lobbing group, the only thing politicians understand is money what lobbyist do is spend money on politicians, politicians take the money then vote in favor of the lobbing group make sense? So in other words the more money a lobbing group can take in the more sway they hold in washinton the more sway they have the easier it is to get stuffed passed like the legalization of marijuana.
Quote:
badchad said:I bet the rate of polysubstance abuse in the marijuana smoking population is well above average.
Ill take that bet, thats a foolish as assumption.
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‘Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example.’"
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Hix
Animal Mother
Registered: 02/20/06
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: oppression]
#6486535 - 01/22/07 04:44 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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No it isn't, look at statistics. Not saying that all the statistics are 100% correct, but there is a lot of evidence that most people that are pot users have at least used alcohol in the past. I can't name one person that I know who ONLY smokes pot.
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Leanin
Student of theIron Game
Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 1,840
Last seen: 9 hours, 59 minutes
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: Hix]
#6487235 - 01/22/07 08:34 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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This is a great idea, pooling pot smoker money to help with the movement.
There wont be many claims, marijuana is harmless.
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oppression
potsmokeshroompopngunnut
Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 92
Loc: south of the mason dixion...
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: Hix]
#6487416 - 01/22/07 09:27 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hix said:
No it isn't, look at statistics. Not saying that all the statistics are 100% correct, but there is a lot of evidence that most people that are pot users have at least used alcohol in the past. I can't name one person that I know who ONLY smokes pot.
It isnt? Prove it?
Polysubstance Abuse - The misuse of more than one drug at a time, such as drinking heavily and using cocaine.
LOL most of my friends choose to do or "abuse" one drug at a time. Maybe your misunderstanding what polysubstance abuse is or maybe I am (not trying to argue). Sure I have friends that have gotten drunk in the past and then gotten stoned later on in life but I have very few that have done both at the same time and even the ones that have havent done it more than a handful of times. As for mixing harder drugs I cant say that Ive had any friends do that either and heres an interesting statistic while were on the subject of useless statistics:
Statistically, for every 104 Americans who have tried marijuana, there is only one regular user of cocaine, and less than one user of heroin.
I dunno maybe Im getting it wrong but the way you guys word it, its almost like your trying to say marijuana is a gateway drug? That if you try it your going to have some type of polysubstance addiction and I dont agree with that. Sure I seriously doubt there going to be insuring any heroin addicts or meth heads but can you really see them getting it together enough to actually go out and try and get life insurance, let alone pay there monthly premium lol? All the speed freaks I have ever known consider themselves lucky to get there rent money to the right person at the end of the month if they have a place to stay that is.
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‘Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example.’"
Edited by oppression (01/22/07 09:27 PM)
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badchad
Stranger
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 2,833
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: oppression]
#6488704 - 01/23/07 06:20 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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For someone to be a "polysubstance" user, it doesn't mean they have to be using substance simultaneously.
As far as being a "gateway drug", no one is claiming that marijuana use CAUSES use of other drugs. All I'm saying is ther are associations between marijuana use unhealthy behaviors. Compared to non-users, marijuana users engage in more unhealthy behaviors.
Here's a nice which found marijuana users were more likely to have: "high caloric diet, tobacco smoking, and other illicit drug use, which all have long-term detrimental effects on health."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=16893701&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_DocSum
Although its debateable, there is ongoing debate about the causal role of marijuana in psychosis:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17007222&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_DocSum
There are tons of studies looking at things like this. Do you honestly believe that other behaviors, such as smoking, are NOT higher in marijauan users versus non-users?
Is it enough to cause significant changes...maybe, maybe not. On average, marijuana users will be less healthy then non-users. This will increase their healthcare costs. Not necessarily a good thing if you're insuring them.
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dedjam
Electro Penguin
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: badchad]
#6488722 - 01/23/07 06:32 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Wow, way to follow the propaganda.
And before you make assumptions as you have in your post, maybe you should do a little research on what logical fallacies are.
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badchad
Stranger
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 2,833
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: dedjam]
#6488773 - 01/23/07 07:31 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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So for all things considered, your claim is that in comparison to non-marijuana smokers, marijuana smokers have absolutely no increase in adverse health behaviors?
Those are peer-reviewed, published studies. I'd certainly be open to any epidemiological studies you can put forth supporting your opinion.
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RoosterCogburn
Fearless,one-eyed U.S.Marshall
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: Hix]
#6488783 - 01/23/07 07:38 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hix said:
I can't name one person that I know who ONLY smokes pot.
I can think of a few... pretty easily.
But I'm probably older than you. Alcohol gets old for most people... On any given night we will have 5 or 6 guys around a bong, and only 1 or 2 will be drinking.
Alcohol is evil... the sooner you realize that, the better.
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dedjam
Electro Penguin
Registered: 12/14/05
Posts: 2,138
Loc: Moralton, Statesota
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: RoosterCogburn]
#6488832 - 01/23/07 08:20 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
RoosterCogburn said:
I can think of a few... pretty easily.
But I'm probably older than you.
This is the problem right here. People think that just because their peer group exihibts these negative stereotypes that it must be a logical assumption that all people exibit these stereotypes. I understand that there are negative risks associated with drugs...just like any other thing you do throughout your life. To say its more dangerous because this study says so, or because you perceive it to be so doesnt not make it fact. It seems people have difficulty understand what a "fact" is.
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badchad
Stranger
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Posts: 2,833
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: dedjam]
#6488900 - 01/23/07 09:02 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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So a "fact" is what you think is correct, backed up by absolutely NO evidence whatsoever?
Stereotypes are not logical assumptions. This is exactly why we have things like statistics and scientific method to help examine "assumptions".
It isn't just one study which may show an increase in polysubstance abuse associated with marijuana (as compared to non-smokers) OR an increae in some sort of adverse health consequence associated with marijuana. It's HUNDREDS.
So what you have, are hundreds of scientific inquiries suggesting that marijuana smokers (in general) have poorer health than non-smokers. This isn't even due to marijuana itself, but other lifestyle factors. And then your argument is "I know friends who are healthy and only smoke marijuana"???
Sorry if I'm not overly convinced.
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dedjam
Electro Penguin
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: badchad]
#6488953 - 01/23/07 09:27 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said:
So a "fact" is what you think is correct, backed up by absolutely NO evidence whatsoever?
Sorry I sit around here at work. Its not my job to do your research to prove a point. If you arent convinced, thats your problem. Believe your lies all you want.
Quote:
badchad said:
Stereotypes are not logical assumptions. This is exactly why we have things like statistics and scientific method to help examine "assumptions".
Exactly, and a statistic isnt a fact. It is just that, a statistic. You are exactly right about what you said, yet it counters what you have already said. Thanks for making my point though.
Quote:
badchad said:
It isn't just one study which may show an increase in polysubstance abuse associated with marijuana (as compared to non-smokers) OR an increae in some sort of adverse health consequence associated with marijuana. It's HUNDREDS.
Well then lets see the hundreds. You obviously think its my job to do your research, so now I will expect the same as you. Also I want credentials of those doing the research and the actual research paper, not its interpretation.
Quote:
badchad said:
So what you have, are hundreds of scientific inquiries suggesting that marijuana smokers (in general) have poorer health than non-smokers. This isn't even due to marijuana itself, but other lifestyle factors. And then your argument is "I know friends who are healthy and only smoke marijuana"???
Here Ill quote the important part of what you said again...maybe it will click with you this time and you will once again realize you are proving my point...
Quote:
badchad said:
This isn't even due to marijuana itself, but other lifestyle factors.
It has nothing to do with marijauna but other lifestyle factors. Just because I smoke doesnt mean I live a certain lifestyle. You are making an unjustified assumtion by connecting marijauna users with a certain type of lifestyle. Marijauna users are spread out across every way of life and in every social scale. To say marijauna users live a certain lifestyle and are therefore less health is spitting in the face of the scientific method you posted earlier about.
Quote:
badchad said:
Sorry if I'm not overly convinced.
And I'm sorry you think its the job of others to help you find the truth by sifting through the bullshit. But hey, lets all go to government websites and take what they have and post it as our proof. With that info I am sure alot of negative things about drugs can be "proven"
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oppression
potsmokeshroompopngunnut
Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 92
Loc: south of the mason dixion...
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: dedjam]
#6489023 - 01/23/07 10:04 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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BAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
According to those study`s if I use cannibis I will get fat and also become schizophrenic. That some funny shit right there, weres the "hard facts" that if you use pot you will become a "polysubstance abuser"? Still waiting...........
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‘Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example.’"
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badchad
Stranger
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: oppression]
#6489122 - 01/23/07 10:54 AM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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It's not about cause and effect. I have never made that claim.
It's about probability and association. If I take a random sample of 1,000 marijuana smokers and compare them to 1,000 non-smokers there are certain trends and lifestyle choices that will be more prevalent in one group versus another.
This does not mean if you smoke marijuana you WILL suffer a consequence. It means, if you smoke marijuana your are more likely to engage in particular behaviors. The reason for this, (or cause), is unimportant or secondary to the conclusion.
You will never read a scientific paper which concludes: "based on these data it is a FACT.....". In this case, statistics are used to indicate the likelihood of something occurring. I say it again for those hung up on semantics: "It is not FACT, rather, the likehood of something occurring".
Edited by badchad (01/23/07 10:56 AM)
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oppression
potsmokeshroompopngunnut
Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 92
Loc: south of the mason dixion...
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: badchad]
#6489341 - 01/23/07 12:21 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said:
It's about probability and association. If I take a random sample of 1,000 marijuana smokers and compare them to 1,000 non-smokers there are certain trends and lifestyle choices that will be more prevalent in one group versus another.
It is? Really? Show me the data. Show me some numbers, prove it. I regularly smoke pot and pop a few shrooms. Why? Because I WANT to. If I wanted speed, overeat, chain smoke, go skydiving, bunggee jump, or drink I would, but I dont WANT to so I dont, it has nothing to do with lifestyle choices I have friends that smoke pot I have friends that dont I have friends that are speed freaks I have friends that wont touch the stuff,I have friends that are totally strait, bottom line we all do what WE WANT to. What your saying is as absurd as saying theres a higher instance of pedophile in the gay community because of there lifestyle, or that theres higher suicide rate in ppl that listen to certain types of music total bs, bottom line we all do what we WANT to.
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‘Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example.’"
Edited by oppression (01/23/07 12:37 PM)
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dedjam
Electro Penguin
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: badchad]
#6489369 - 01/23/07 12:49 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said:
I say it again for those hung up on semantics: "It is not FACT, rather, the likehood of something occurring".
Two seperate things. FACTS stand up in criminal court. FACTS are what we go by when making real judgements. Percentages are nice, they show likelihood, they do now show fact...which is why they are meaningless in our court system (criminal).
It just seems our minds work differently. You think that just because a study says there is a liklihood of something being true...then it is true. I say that unless there is a factual basis for the claim, then it is not true. This is how logic works, this is how our courts work, this is how science works.
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badchad
Stranger
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: dedjam]
#6489466 - 01/23/07 01:26 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Okay, so then using your logic one could make the claim: It is not a FACT cigarrettes cause cancer. There is just a higher probability of lung cancer occuring in smokers. Stated as such, I guess I have to agree with you.
And I don't automatically believe that if a study says something is true, then it is so. Rather, I am trained as a scientist and I would evaluate all the available data.
Unfortunately, even if I post the studies which come up with a pubmed search supporting my claim, you won't be able to see the data unless you are at a major university or otherwise have institutinal access (professional papers are copyrighted).
Edited by badchad (01/23/07 01:50 PM)
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oppression
potsmokeshroompopngunnut
Registered: 01/18/07
Posts: 92
Loc: south of the mason dixion...
Last seen: 1 month, 10 days
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: badchad]
#6489504 - 01/23/07 01:38 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said:
Unfortunately, even if I post the studies which come up with a pubmed search supporting my claim, you won't be able to see the data unless you are at a major university or otherwise have institutional access (professional papers are copyrighted).
Then lets see what you have. Hopefully its more than "weed will make you fat and paranoid" and since your a trained scientist / full time student maybe you can get a hold of that data and relay it to us , unless thats against some higher learning rule or the data / study that you claim exists doesn't. Today I think I'm going to be an astrophysicist tomorrow I may choose to dabble in the international espionage and I think Ill finish the week up as a pianist not because I like the piano but just because the word pianist makes me giggle
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‘Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example.’"
Edited by oppression (01/23/07 01:43 PM)
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badchad
Stranger
Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 2,833
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Re: NORML now offering life insurance to marijuana smokers [US] [Re: oppression]
#6489595 - 01/23/07 02:02 PM (1 year, 10 months ago) |
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PM me an email address and I'll send the first study to you (as well as plenty of others).
Edited by badchad (01/23/07 02:02 PM)
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