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 Nalim
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 Solubility of psilocin/psilocybin in various solvents? 
#6410108 - 12/30/06 08:17 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Anyone know a link to a chemical data sheet for psilocin psilocybin. It would be interesting to have the solubility data for psilocybin and psilocin in various solvents(for crystallization purposes).
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 fastfred
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Re: Solubility of psilocin/psilocybin in various solvents? [Re: Nalim]
#6411646 - 12/30/06 08:03 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here are some snips I had laying around...
Psilocybin: Sol in 20 parts boiling water, 120 parts boiling methanol; difficultly sol. in ethanol. Practically insol in chloroform, benzene.
Psilocin: Unstable in soln, esp. akaline soln. Very slightly sol in water. Soluable in ether. Recrystalize from chloroform/heptane (1:3) yielding white crystals. With aqueous ethanol, the optimum extraction was with a 70% ethanol concentration, and the extraction efficiency dropped almost to zero when there was no water present. But methanol was extremely inefficient regardless of the amount of water present in it.
Psilocin forms white crystals from methanol and is quite insoluble in water, but dissolves in most organic solvents.
-FF
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hjalmar
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Re: Solubility of psilocin/psilocybin in various solvents? [Re: Nalim]
#6411657 - 12/30/06 08:07 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Shulgin recrystallized psilocin from ethyl acetate/hexane.
See TiHKaL
I don't know if you'll be able to separate them by fractional crystallisation however.
Use a column first perhaps?
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Acyl
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Re: Solubility of psilocin/psilocybin in various solvents? [Re: fastfred]
#6412483 - 12/31/06 12:28 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
Here are some snips I had laying around...
Psilocybin: Sol in 20 parts boiling water, 120 parts boiling methanol; difficultly sol. in ethanol. Practically insol in chloroform, benzene.
Psilocin: Unstable in soln, esp. akaline soln. Very slightly sol in water. Soluable in ether. Recrystalize from chloroform/heptane (1:3) yielding white crystals. With aqueous ethanol, the optimum extraction was with a 70% ethanol concentration, and the extraction efficiency dropped almost to zero when there was no water present. But methanol was extremely inefficient regardless of the amount of water present in it.
Psilocin forms white crystals from methanol and is quite insoluble in water, but dissolves in most organic solvents.
-FF
merck index 
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AmericaOnLSD
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Re: Solubility of psilocin/psilocybin in various solvents? [Re: Acyl]
#6414171 - 12/31/06 04:38 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was in Borders today and was browsing some book - don't recall the title but it had the words "Magic Mushroom" in the title and was a rather thin book (probably only 100 pages or so). Anyway, it talked about extracting mushroom actives using methanol, and it said that 10ml of methanol should be used for every 0.1 grams of dried mushrooms. That would seem to me to be a mistake given the above figures, since we are talking only milligrams of actives in every gram of dried mushrooms. To say nothing of the fact that if true extraction would hardly be practical. Lets say you had 100 grams of dried mushrooms - that would require 10 liters of methanol! And of course this all has to be evaporated. I wonder if it was supposed to be 10ml per 0.1 grams of actives, not 0.1 grams of dried mushrooms?
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Nalim
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Re: Solubility of psilocin/psilocybin in various solvents? [Re: AmericaOnLSD]
#6414240 - 12/31/06 04:58 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
AmericaOnLSD said:
I was in Borders today and was browsing some book - don't recall the title but it had the words "Magic Mushroom" in the title and was a rather thin book (probably only 100 pages or so). Anyway, it talked about extracting mushroom actives using methanol, and it said that 10ml of methanol should be used for every 0.1 grams of dried mushrooms. That would seem to me to be a mistake given the above figures, since we are talking only milligrams of actives in every gram of dried mushrooms. To say nothing of the fact that if true extraction would hardly be practical. Lets say you had 100 grams of dried mushrooms - that would require 10 liters of methanol! And of course this all has to be evaporated. I wonder if it was supposed to be 10ml per 0.1 grams of actives, not 0.1 grams of dried mushrooms?
One does not use amounts of solvent near the potential solubility level for extractions, you use amounts waaaaay above that.
Its really nothing closely related to the subject of this tread
(which is to figure out what would be a (for me  )suitable crystallization-solvent for psilocin and psilocybin)
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fastfred
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Re: Solubility of psilocin/psilocybin in various solvents? [Re: Nalim]
#6414893 - 01/01/07 12:17 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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You also have to account for the fact that you're not just extracting the actives. You're extracting everything that is soluable in methanol, which would be quite a bit. The concentrations of other solutes will affect the solubility of psilocin/psilocybin.
Nast, you aren't going to be able to crystalize both psilocin and psilocybin from the same solvent. It's easy to convert psilocybin to psilocin and psilocin is easily crystalized from any number of organic solvents, but there would be a lot of loss.
-FF
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Hotnuts
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Re: Solubility of psilocin/psilocybin in various solvents? [Re: fastfred]
#6414898 - 01/01/07 12:25 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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It really seems that this forum is exctraction based these days.
Where are all of the exciting threads?
Edited by Hotnuts (01/01/07 01:03 AM)
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shirley knott
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 Re: Solubility of psilocin/psilocybin in various solvents? [Re: Hotnuts]
#6415098 - 01/01/07 07:05 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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no shit. they should all be dumped straight into the psychedelic experience forum, imo. this is an argument that has been bubbling for a while now, and it may be time for some new year changes - why don't you petition the mods of advanced cult, as this is their call.
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Nalim
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Re: Solubility of psilocin/psilocybin in various solvents? [Re: fastfred]
#6415211 - 01/01/07 09:01 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
fastfred said:
Nast, you aren't going to be able to crystalize both psilocin and psilocybin from the same solvent. It's easy to convert psilocybin to psilocin and psilocin is easily crystalized from any number of organic solvents, but there would be a lot of loss.
-FF
Yeah I know, but I still need the data; mainly to know what solvent would be most suited, I'm almost leaning for water at this point(for psilocybin), and the chloroform/heptane mix you posted for psilocin..(tnx a lot for that btw  ) Or I could dephosphorylate the psilocybin and only use chloroform/heptane.. Well we'll see...
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fastfred
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Re: Solubility of psilocin/psilocybin in various solvents? [Re: Nalim]
#6423816 - 01/04/07 03:32 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hotnuts said:
It really seems that this forum is exctraction based these days.
Where are all of the exciting threads?
It's not that there are any more extraction threads that before, it's that there are fewer threads on other topics.
In the last year or two I think advanced has withered up to almost nothing. People are scared to post here because of the elitist attitude here.
Way too many threads get locked and too many people put down for posting here. I've seen threads on shroom picking robots, genetics, etc. questions get flamed and locked for being off topic, not advanced enough, too advanced, or not applicable.
It's a shame because even back when there were far fewer shroomery members this forum used to get a lot more traffic.
How about cutting back on the snobbery and elitism and welcoming more people to post here? Or how about letting more threads run their course more often unless there becomes a problem with too much garbage posts?
Maybe it would be good to have a lock limit for mods or require two mods to lock a thread.
Quote:
shirley knott said:
no shit. they should all be dumped straight into the psychedelic experience forum, imo. this is an argument that has been bubbling for a while now, and it may be time for some new year changes - why don't you petition the mods of advanced cult, as this is their call.
And plenty of new ideas keep coming out of it. Chemistry is an advanced topic and I don't see where else mycological biochemistry questions would fit. It really doesn't have much to do with the "psychedelic experience". Seems like you're just looking to deny another topic from a dying forum.
What would YOU have us discuss?
I'm fine with discussing nothing but cellular biology, but it doesn't seem like the forum is overflowing with that type of discussion. Or we could do nothing but discuss journal papers or the proceedings of the international mycological society. I'd much rather discuss ideas in a more free atmosphere.
The way I see it we can draft a bunch of asshole rules and a list of off-limit topics or we could loosen up a bit and possibly get more than a couple posts a day.
I never thought I'd say it, but it was more fun here with no-nothing ignoramuses around like baby hitler than the current holier-than-thou, censor happy, not-advanced enough crowd we have now.
-FF
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shirley knott
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Re: Solubility of psilocin/psilocybin in various solvents? [Re: fastfred]
#6424169 - 01/04/07 09:46 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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i dont moderate in this room, but i used to.
i don't want people to be scared to participate in advanced myc. if they have genuine adv-myc issues, i'm sure they'll post freely. what's advanced and what isn't advanced is pretty subjective, so we have a two-stage process - rules and moderators. both are as flexible as a young sapling. there's noboby here that's really rude or scary.
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funkyjunky
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 Re: Solubility of psilocin/psilocybin in various solvents? [Re: shirley knott]
#6429048 - 01/05/07 06:30 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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If extraction threads went to P.E., they'd be buried in hours, and people would start new threads instead of adding to the existing.
Anyways,
I haven't seen any hard data on cold alcohol extractions, and I've performed a few. Here's what I've found:
Ethanol and Methanol in the freezer
-low solubility
-high selectivity
i.e. the resulting liquid could be reduced to a few mL's of clear liquid, with lots of ppt. forming upon cooling. The extraction times were relatively long, and solvent volumes high. More experimenting should yield more accurate and plentiful details.
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Nalim
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Re: Solubility of psilocin/psilocybin in various solvents? [Re: funkyjunky]
#6430568 - 01/06/07 08:57 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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Tnx funkyjunky.... Freeze crystallization might be the way to go.. One could extract with a large amount of solvent and then let it evaporate at room temp until you reach methanol holding capacity and then cool it.. One will perhaps need to dephosphorylate the psilocybin but that shouldn't be that hard..
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pscyanescens
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Re: Solubility of psilocin/psilocybin in various solvents? [Re: Nalim]
#6465062 - 01/16/07 06:47 AM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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There are many different TEKS that are talked about at this link
http://www.fanaticus.com/mycoalki.htm
I hear that methenol is ineficiant. And i hear the chloroform is extreley dangerouse to breath, and extremely flamable as well.
If 190 proof everclear works well, then i would suggest ethenol. However i don't get much positive feedback with ethenol.
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