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 razmablues
Biologist
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 2,403
Loc: OrangeCounty
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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 reincarnation 
#6376465 - 12/16/06 10:07 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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how does it exactly work?
is it a literal, the energy from ones dead brain transfers over to another animal and or plant and another being is made?
or is it like a how good you were in your life determined what species you get your next soul thrown into?
or is it completely random.
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soft silly music is meaningful, magical 
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 AlteredAgain
Open Sourcerer
 
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 10,910
Loc: Sol III
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In the West there is too much hurry because of the Christian concept that there is only one life, and with death you are gone and will not be able to come back. That has created a crazy idea in peoples' minds. So everybody is in a hurry, running fast.
Nobody worries about where they are going; they just think about going faster, that's all. So nobody is enjoying anything, because how can you enjoy things at such a speed? All of life has become a hit-and-run affair.
To enjoy anything one needs a very relaxed attitude. To enjoy life one needs eternity. How can you enjoy when death is going to come so soon? One tries to enjoy as much as one can, but in that very effort all peace is lost, and without peace there is no enjoyment. Delight is only possible when you are savoring things very slowly. When you have enough time to spend, only then is delight possible.
The Eastern concept of reincarnation is beautiful. Whether or not it is true is really not the point. There is no way of discovering what lies beyond death for nobody has ever returned to tell the tale.
But it does give you a very relaxed attitude toward life and that is the real thing. 
  
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"I don't do drugs. I am drugs. Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic." Dali
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Silversoul
Holon
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,562
Loc: Mostly harmless
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I think there is a sort of collective consciousness has something to do with past life memories. I don't think reincarnation occurs in the way it's traditionally understood, but I do believe in a sort of evolving collective consciousness which is continually growing and learning through our individual life experiences. I don't know if that makes sense, but it's hard for me to explain.
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Viveka
Architecturer
Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 3,253
Last seen: 1 hour, 29 minutes
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Genetics is a more useful construct for understanding the nature of reality, in my experience.
If you've ever been present in the awareness that the individual self that would experience "reincarnation" is not what it appears to be, it becomes clear that one form running the gamut from vegetable to jaguar to old man and back again is radically incomplete. Like observing the water streaming from your faucet and calling it the ocean. That water is from the ocean and it will return to it.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that the concept of a soul reincarnating implies that the stance of awareness we maintain in this life is somehow everlasting, and the experience of being another human being, or an elephant, or someone starving in a third world country is just a modulation of our current experience. But the recycling of energy is likely a much more dynamic experience than this.
A part of my dead uncles' 'essence' may have lived on in the attitudes of my grandparents or the seed of his brother, my dad, and may be influences that shape my experience in life and what people's expectations of me are, as well as my own expectations, provided I allow others' expectations to affect me, which is pretty impossible to avoid, especially since i was exposed to them in my formative years.
My life is shaped in part by my heritage. Perhaps my Sweedish nose lends to a particular realm of experience, if not just the very perception of it sticking off the front of my face, which factors into every frame of momentary awareness  . This of course is not to say that reincarnation is limited to the family line. Physically, even emotionally and mentally, I am most similar in many ways to my parents. But I am not my mom, my dad, my uncle. Nor was my uncle my uncle at any moment, in the same way that he was at any other moment. The point of transcendental awareness comes when the fluid nature of awareness and experience is realized. The world of phenomenon and human life is far too liquid for reincarnation in the sense you imply to be maintained.
Reincarnation does exist, but it's like one big reincarnation, instead of a bunch of little ones.
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Throw out your gold teeth and see how they roll
The answer they reveal - life is unreal
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leery11
Stranger
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,223
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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 Re: reincarnation [Re: Viveka]
#6377440 - 12/16/06 04:44 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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to the Buddhists, to me, any defilements left in your head create your new reality, everything else is wiped.
have rage? die with rage? Rage finds a vehicle where it can express itself more fully than it did.
the most important thing about rebirth is the fact that human beings are born, and we can say that even if everyone else is fake, the individual reading this possesses consciousness.... the question becomes, how did this individual come to be, and where was it before being born?
life after death almost seems invetiable, given how perplexing it should be that we are here right now alive and reading this.
consider.... do you remember being a baby? Do you remember being a toddler? If not, how will you remember being you when you become someone else?
Now if you attain a clear mind and access pure awareness in this lifetime, your pure awareness becomes your new vehicle, rather than the limitations of a physical body and a deluded inattention addled mind.
The inattention addled mind is not likely to remember much at all when it is scrambled and reconfigured and finds a new vessel, especially if the mind is dominated by heavy amounts of grasping and aversion.
The pure mind on the other hand is capale of reincarnating deliberately, choosing who it will be, and choosing to remain in the state of pure awareness with (having a body) or without (being in the absolute) form.
you sort of die every time you go to sleep, and your dreams are an indication of how you might be reborn, sometimes you have no idea who you are in your dreams, but you still think they are real.
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Om bhur bhuvaha swaha tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi, dhiyo yonah prachodyat.
We meditate upon that supreme light , the source of all creation, may it illumine our intellects and bring us eternal life.
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: reincarnation [Re: leery11]
#6377502 - 12/16/06 05:07 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you become someone else, then in what way are 'you' still 'you'?
Anyways, about the rage example, rage is a mental formation. It's all in the mind. I guess you have to consider what the mind itself is.
To me, the mind is a function of the brain. Once your brain dies, how can the rage continue?
Anyways, seeking to attain a clear and pure mind is fun and all, but all that searching is like a person with glasses on their head searching all over for their glasses. You already have a pure, awakened mind. You are already Buddha! Search for Buddha though, and you'll never find him.
What I'm getting at is that who knows about and what difference does reincarnation make? How would a conceptual version of a metaphysical idea help me to see this moment, right here, right now?
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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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TrippinNinjaBuddha
ShroominSamurai
Registered: 04/11/04
Posts: 279
Last seen: 8 months, 23 days
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Re: reincarnation [Re: dblaney]
#6378132 - 12/16/06 09:01 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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This is like asking 'What is heaven like?'
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Jumped in a river, what did I see?
Black eyed angels swimming with me
Moon full of stars and astral cars, all the figures I used to see
All my lovers were there with me
All my past and all my futures
We went to heaven in a little rowboat
There was nothing to fear and nothing to doubt
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thallus
Stranger thanyou
Registered: 08/15/06
Posts: 629
Loc: Hiding in Plain Sight
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and how many souls are in the world?
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leery11
Stranger
Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,223
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: reincarnation [Re: dblaney]
#6379251 - 12/17/06 11:41 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said:
How would a conceptual version of a metaphysical idea help me to see this moment, right here, right now?
right.
this is a left brained discussion though?
who were you before you were born? how can consciousness come from nothing? how can consciousness become non-aware of itself?
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Om bhur bhuvaha swaha tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi, dhiyo yonah prachodyat.
We meditate upon that supreme light , the source of all creation, may it illumine our intellects and bring us eternal life.
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: reincarnation [Re: leery11]
#6379366 - 12/17/06 12:18 PM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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who were you before you were born?
Beats me!
how can consciousness come from nothing?
Who said it did?
how can consciousness become non-aware of itself?
I don't know. I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.
P.S. You still haven't answered my question 
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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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dalorean88
power2thelittlepeople
Registered: 09/16/06
Posts: 315
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: reincarnation [Re: dblaney]
#6385193 - 12/19/06 12:28 AM (5 years, 5 months ago) |
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I believe what we learn in this life is what we take with us after death. How, Im not sure. But we all can look at scientific facts that we are energy, and energy does not die. So technically we do live on, but how, is the fun surprise! We must worry about what happens in THIS life though, because this is all we know and this is what we have now. FAMILY, and friends, and yes, pets too!
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dblaney
Human Being
Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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That's a cool belief. I believe that what we learn in this life is stored in the brain, and when the brain dies, all that is in it (including what we learn) also dies.
True, we are energy, and so really we are never born and we never die. We just continually change. In fact, we ARE change itself.
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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"
"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer
Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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BlueCoyote
Beyond
Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 5,115
Loc: Between
Last seen: 23 minutes, 48 seconds
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Re: reincarnation [Re: dblaney]
#6405630 - 12/28/06 03:01 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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The death of information is not such an easy subject 
In theory, even if you burn a book, you can get its information out of the radiations, whith the propper instruments.
What can we know where our brain's information goes, when it dies ?
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House
Stranger
Registered: 11/27/06
Posts: 105
Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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In Zen buddhism there is no separate "self" to be reincarnated in the first place. We are part of a constantly changing universe and in essence we are reborn in every moment.
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AlteredAgain
Open Sourcerer
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 10,910
Loc: Sol III
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Re: reincarnation [Re: House]
#6406071 - 12/28/06 05:48 PM (5 years, 4 months ago) |
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You contain the paradox of the "separate" self and unity with the One.
You are simultaneously the primal point of beginning and the crowning culmination.
You are the initiator, always are, always have been, always will be.
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"I don't do drugs. I am drugs. Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic." Dali
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xxxchristian69
Your not realyour just anillusion
Registered: 04/05/06
Posts: 205
Loc: USA
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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i just had to rspond to this first off the goal in life is not to reincarnate you main purpose in life is to become a pure devotee of the lord wich means liveing with him on the same planet in a spirit body wich last forever no birth and death cycle only a fool would wish to stay in this cycle even buhdist and jainist and many others will agree the cycle of reincarnation is a bad thing something wich we should free are selfs from also i would like to hit on the topic of enjoying one's self this is a bad thing a thing wich leads to material atachments wich keeps you reincarnateing if you want all the anwsers to reincarnation http://www.iskcon.com/index.html start here and http://krishna.org/ here
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<a href="http://www.marksgraphichelp.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://xs1.xoospace.com/myspace/graphics/12738.gif" alt="Kermit" border="0" /></a>
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AlteredAgain
Open Sourcerer
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 10,910
Loc: Sol III
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the fool is often the wisest of all for it is he who simply goes along for the ride, walking the path in front of him, playfully and spontaneously.
whether there is a cycle or not does not concern him for all there is to him is the moment and each cycle essentially emerges out of the moment in which he so gracefully sings his songs and dances the waves of yin and yang.
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"I don't do drugs. I am drugs. Take me, I am the drug; take me, I am hallucinogenic." Dali
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capliberty
Stranger
Registered: 04/23/06
Posts: 1,949
Last seen: 2 years, 9 months
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Actually I know reincarnation already exists because the principle of it is based off one of the main principles in science, that energy can never be created nor destroyed only transform in nature, sense our beings are vessels that harnesses energy and transforms its nature into actual reality, thoughts, technology, consciousness, evolution is a result of energy along with space and time. This collective evolution becomes its own form of energy, technology, random elemental actions, etc. In one form or another our energy transforms in nature as reflected back, the Hindu propose that our energy is reflected back in any form of life, animal, human, or plant. Sense all life forms consist of the same elements then Buddha or who ever made the connection that reincarnation from the cycle of life and that of energy would reflect in these forms on same physical plane.
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ck10n3
Imagine
Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 348
Loc: Here, now.
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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"In ecology and Earth science, a biogeochemical cycle is a circuit or pathway by which a chemical element or molecule moves through both biotic ("bio-") and abiotic ("geo-") compartments of an ecosystem. In effect, the element is recycled, although in some such cycles there may be places (called "sinks") where the element is accumulated or held for a long period of time."
Boom, that is what I take reincarnation to mean literally. With the soul though, hrmm, I still haven't decided for myself what that implies.
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"You must be the change you want to see in the world." - The trip of a Life Time.
Indra's Net - There is an endless net of threads throughout the universe. The horizontal threads are in space. The vertical threads in time. At every crossing of threads there is an individual. And every individual is a crystal bead. The great light of absolute being illuminates and penetrates every crystal being, And every crystal being reflects not only the light from every other crystal in the net, But also every reflection of every reflection throughout the universe.
-cK
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