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 flow
outlaw immortal
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 Qigong and entheogens 
#5119631 - 12/29/05 06:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Over the past few years ive done quite a bit of reading in a wide variety of subjects that have interested me. Two of these are entheogens and qigong. My first mushroom experience fueled my curiousity into about topics such as shaminism, philosophy, hallucingen research, and the works of Aldous Huxley and Terrance McKenna. I have also studied martial arts for over a decade this has led me to studying eastern philosophy, anatomy, athletic training, chinese medicene, and more recently qigong (chi kung) and taoist and buddhist meditation.
What i have been most interested in recently is the applications of qigong to martial arts training, and this has led me to begin a very simple qigong training program. Unfortunately i have not been able to find an instructor in my area so my training has been very simple and designed from the many books i have read on the subject.
Recently i have experimented with using different qigong pratices with marijauna and psilocybe cubensis. This has led me to two very interesting conclusions that i am just starting to explore more throughly.
The first is that after smoking marijuana i am able to sense my qi flow much stronger. This occurs mainly during moving soft qigong, my favorite exercises being lifting the sky and carrying the moon. I can really feel chi flow through my body, it feels like intense static electricity.
The other interesting thing ive noticed is much more difficult to explain. The last few times ive eaten mushrooms ive tried meditation. Normally i assume the sigle lotus position buddha style and "meditate on the void" or emptiness or nothingness. Without mushrooms it is very difficult for me to acheive any sort of results, but on mushrooms i can go really far. Ive even felt distinctly that i was disconnecting with my body and floating out in some sort of "space." I really cant even begin to put into words what i experienced there. I cant even form a decent explanation to myself. When i "came back", i felt indescribable joy. Far better than any other trip and i dont know how to put this but much more real.
My next trips will be spent exploring this.
I was mainly wondering if anyone else around these boards does any sort of qigong or meditation while being assisted by marijuana or mushrooms?
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MAIA
World-BridgerKartikeya (DftS)
 
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Re: Qigong and entheogens [Re: flow]
#5121376 - 12/30/05 08:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
I was mainly wondering if anyone else around these boards does any sort of qigong or meditation while being assisted by marijuana or mushrooms?
Not qigong but i've practiced some meditation while under the influence of mushrooms. What i really find interesting about what you describe in your experience, is the reference to what you call "space". I can recall having the same experience and i remember how real it was. It's like using an extra sense to perceive reality, in which you feel things more real than ever.
What you are doing is very positive and i'm sure you'll increase your awareness and energy levels. My advice, discipline to achieve self control  , anyway, you probably know that already ...
MAIA
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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 
Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
Voltaire
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 redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
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Re: Qigong and entheogens [Re: MAIA]
#5121610 - 12/30/05 11:12 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I still feel odd about mixing the two, yet I often do to some extent
on the one hand I have a breathing meditation practice, but
on the other hand,
my best psychedellic experiences include a lot of letting go and processions of awareness of the body, posture and contact, or "centering" or returning to the sense of body or presence of mind.
I guess I like to keep practice and tripping separated, since the psychedellic experience gets a bounty of phenomena, that can be considered baggage to sort past during the work of meditation.
the two kinds of mindfullness really are mutually supportive, but I would hesitate to define how, except to say that the self becomes more reflective and flexible in all states of mind, when viewed as a percentage of time spent altogether over time spent in cultivated awareness.
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~~~~~
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dr0mni
My Own Messiah
Registered: 08/21/04
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I am completely opposite. I cannot meditate effectively when i am not sober.
I need complete sobriety (for at least a day or two before hand) to achieve desired effects with meditation. That's probably why I haven't meditated in months...
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
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Re: Qigong and entheogens [Re: dr0mni]
#5128181 - 01/01/06 06:39 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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IMO
effects
are not what meditation is about
like
applause
is not the purpose of dance
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~~~~~
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dr0mni
My Own Messiah
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by "effects" I simply mean the altered state of consciousness. if I wasn't meditating for this "effect" then I wouldn't be meditating at all.
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Simisu
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Re: Qigong and entheogens [Re: dr0mni]
#5130617 - 01/02/06 10:39 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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i'm not sure what chi kong is really all about but i'm gonna say i've expirianced what you mentioned when stoned!
i often feel like ganja makes me "stick" to the growned and to follow the flow of my own energy (in movment) i feel the blood flow and my breathing is much more relaxed and in tune with my body (rather than my mind!)
i've never had any martial arts training but when i'm stoned i'm able to do stuff i never thought my body was able to do...
i've started taking contact impovisation lessons lately and the first and most important thing they tought me was to let go and feel the flow... i've been doing that naturaly when stoned so it was easy for me to transfer to sobriety...
i've had only one expiriance of the "space feeling" you described (on weed though) i remember lying in bed sort of meditating on nothing and feeling like my being was trapped inside some bubble but started to saparate and when it came really close to "lift off" i got a little scared thinking i wasn't ready for whatever is out there and the feeling went away intirely
my suggestion for you is to study the effects of the drugs and the interactions with movment and awerness and do your best to transfer your knowledge to the sober existance... it's possible and much more rewarding in my expiriance!
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     Shr mery
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dorkus
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Re: Qigong and entheogens [Re: Simisu]
#5130676 - 01/02/06 11:22 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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my breathing is much more relaxed and in tune with my body (rather than my mind!
Maybe it is your mind that is more in tune with your breath? And revealing it's nature as the body. Like a tree.
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Simisu
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Re: Qigong and entheogens [Re: dorkus]
#5132614 - 01/02/06 09:17 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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maybe but i'm pretty sure i ment what i ment... breath is a natural thing and it's not supposed to be controlled by the mind (not for moving anyway) your brain knows exectly when you need to breath and when not but we tend to play with it in order to lie or to express things that are not what we really feel/think...
once you let go breath happens naturally and in movment it's changing acording to the speed/effort/direction of movment.
i guess if what you ment by mind is actualy the brain then we could just be talking about the same thing though...
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Shrmery
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dorkus
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Re: Qigong and entheogens [Re: Simisu]
#5134003 - 01/03/06 04:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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You are probably right, I'm not even sure what I meant by mind. Guess I believe it to be the room I'm surrounded by? Almost like the bubble you speak of. And that if you let go of your mind, you will merge with breath and expand outwards and drop out. I feel trapped in my mind, and want to put it aside.
I'm not doing this though... I'm having problems letting my breath run it's own course. Is there something in between breaths, or is it a straight line?
What is the difference between the brain and mind? Is the mind only a fragment of the brain, the conscious part of it?
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leery11
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Re: Qigong and entheogens [Re: dorkus]
#5214565 - 01/23/06 06:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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topic starter, do you smoke marijuana?
how does the detrimental effect of inhaling burning plant juxtapose with the qigong, do you feel that you can remedy the harm done, or is there damage that despite an enhanced sense of chi flow, cannot be properly corrected?
i feel much "energy" while on herb..... different than what I felt while doing tai chi on LSA which was an intense instant orgasm flash kind of flow that just blew my mind....... more its just "awareness energy" rather than chakra energy or probably what qi is...
but at the same time smoking marijuana most definitely damages the energy flow in my heart chakra, leaves my chest fucked.... and maybe drains my navel/solar plexus/sacral chakra regions.
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Om bhur bhuvaha swaha tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi, dhiyo yonah prachodyat.
We meditate upon that supreme light , the source of all creation, may it illumine our intellects and bring us eternal life.
Edited by leery11 (01/23/06 06:33 PM)
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a_h_w
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Re: Qigong and entheogens [Re: leery11]
#5224967 - 01/26/06 07:18 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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while on shrooms I've recently had the most intense meditation session ever. I downloaded some 20-30 minutes guided meditation sessions from the net and I've been experimenting with them. one of my last shroom trips I tried my favorite guided session. the results were absolutely impressive. it was mainly about focusing attention on the breath, relaxing and letting go. but the shroom visuals connected intimately with the sound. there was this part where a great tension built up and I could see an enormous spiral moving ever faster and I had to concentrate really hard not to open my eyes and stay focused until I hear the final instruction to let it all go. then something wonderful happened. in the exact same moment I heard these words the spiral vanished and there was a tremendous flow of energy throughout my hole body which persisted while I remained still and focused. the following minutes were superb and I believe I could have extended the experience a lot longer if my meditation skills were more advanced.
I believe daily practice (sober or non sober) is essential. the deep psychedelic experience (shrooms, cacti, ayahuasca) is then your privileged opportunity to make the best of all the knowledge and skill you've acquired.
on the sober state you exercise, you practice, you try to learn as much as you can. if you feel you can do this on cannabis, then i think it's fine. I particularly feel that many times cannabis pulls me into other things, but I guess that depends on discipline. whether cannabis is a help or an hindrance to your spiritual development mainly depends on you. I feel however that regular sober periods, herbal teas, honey, milk and fruit help restoring lungs/chest health and bring balance to your body and mind.
one last detail. while I find meditation an excellent tool for the psychedelic experience, specially in the difficult build up or when you want to focus on the visual/auditory part of the trip, it is only a small part of my practice while on deep psychedelic states. dancing can produce equally powerful effects, and creative activities(like writing or painting) are an excellent method for bringing some part of the realm you're exploring back into the domain of mundane existence.
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PsychoChipmunk
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Re: Qigong and entheogens [Re: a_h_w]
#5225917 - 01/26/06 02:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've played around with various qigong exercises under the influence of shrooms, herb and mdma. I've found that the increased awareness of body definitely applies to the qi as well.
Upon giving the matter much consideration, it is my personal belief that mixing drugs/entheogens with qigong practices other than meditation and breathing might be asking for trouble. Due to the fact that one's sense of self and body is altered, it creates the possibility for disturbances within the meridians. The chi might flow someplace new and the perception to one who is tripping could be very unsettling. Excitement and anxiety are defiantly not what you want when working with your chi.
I have experienced my chi suddenly flowing up the thrusting vessel (chi vessel that occupies an area roughly along the spine.) This is not a circulation that I train, and the experience was very unpleasant. It was like having an electrode hooked up to my mind.
I suppose the potential for working with chi and opening gates is increased when combining qigong and altering substances, but my personal belief is that its better to invest in practice sober. I've had some very interesting sessions, but I'm going to put in my time the hard way.
Your mileage may vary.
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\m/
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leery11
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I've had similar experiences with sudden surges of energy going up my spine only to meet a blockage (usually in the lower back) and cause much pain, even when making it to the crown they still hurt.
it happens when i focus too much on the root chakra.
this was more frequenty when i first started smoking and i would actually sort of spasm-out and see COLORS of the chakras I was paying attention and get a strong convulsion of energy.
Part of me thinks I broke stuff in there..... I don't know... I do yoga and it makes me all shakey like the energy is flowing but there is no regulating current.... tai chi however generally levels it out and makes the energy flow natural.
It's such a hard subject, I want to just ask both my yoga and tai chi teachers about what they think of entheogens and their fields of discipline, and it's not like they'd turn me in and get me arrested, but ..... I don't know..... shouldn't it be obvious to them that I use drugs in the first place? I kind of look like a hippy and my motor skills are fucked up, though... not from drugs, from a neurological problem.... but the drugs have allowed me to sense the "frequency" of this problem and it has thusly then manifested throughout my body and movements as I grow to understand it more (and hope to one day remedy it, sometimes in a very relaxed almost meditative sleep state I can feel the direct vibrations of it).
generally i feel like i'm made of water and cannot stay still very well. I tried to tell my yoga teacher and she seemed to think it was good (that i was feeling energy) and didn't really have anything to say.
I really just want a confidant/teacher/guide that can give me what I'm looking for in terms of communication about these things. When I try to approach the yoga/tai chi it seems like they know what i'm after but they don't understand what I'm saying, or just that I think they know more than they actually do.
But I've had dreams about both of them correcting various energy/balance problems.
sorry if this is kind of off topic.... i need to express it and .... don't really have anywhere else for it.
or maybe i don't look as bad as I think I do. It's hard to tell.
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Om bhur bhuvaha swaha tat savitur varenyam bhargo devasya dhimahi, dhiyo yonah prachodyat.
We meditate upon that supreme light , the source of all creation, may it illumine our intellects and bring us eternal life.
Edited by leery11 (01/26/06 10:16 PM)
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PsychoChipmunk
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Re: Qigong and entheogens [Re: leery11]
#5230051 - 01/27/06 09:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I guess I've thought of doing qigong when altered as something like this:
The average human being is wired for 110 volts. When you practice when altered, you might be running more current than normal. If you run 220 volts thru an appliance wired for 110 you can cause damage to it.
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\m/
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Gomp
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 Re: Qigong and entheogens [Re: flow]
#5230831 - 01/27/06 02:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sounds to me, that smoking is a tool for you...
helping you let go.. ..of!
like when taking a shower, and/or washing your hands..
ever had those "moments"?
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