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 Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,516
Loc: underbelly
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 Re: Plant Spirit Personifications?  [Re: Silversoul]
#5222786 - 01/25/06 05:17 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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In fact mushrooms might just have saved TM from staying in a marriage that had run its course. 
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,201
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Plant Spirit Personifications? [Re: Veritas]
#5222990 - 01/25/06 06:06 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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The astonishing thing to me (perhaps because I find the mind utterly fascinating), is that anyone could consider it disappointing to realize that it is "just" their mind creating these experiences. 
That natural processes have single-handedly given rise to us (and who can even imagine what other astonishing things elsewhere in the cosmos) is FAR more fascinating an idea then making up some lame supernatural explanation that is not in evidence. 
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,516
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Plant Spirit Personifications? [Re: Diploid]
#5222994 - 01/25/06 06:07 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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understatement.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Huehuecoyotl
Stranger
 
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,158
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Plant Spirit Personifications? [Re: Swami]
#5223148 - 01/25/06 06:32 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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"I have yet to see any positive long-term effects from the mushroom despite all the claims. And not one instance of psychic phenomenon that the author alludes to."
It was after a profound mushroom experience that I gave up a 5 case a week drinking habit...this has persisted for 8 years now. It was after a mushroom experience that I quit a well paying job to change my career and go back to school to obtain an occupation that I love. Psychedelics have colored every aspect of my thought. My respect for knowledge, philosophy, and Pink Floyd are all attributable to psychedelics.
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Maybe there is no Heaven. Maybe this is all pure gibberish — a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow — to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whiskey, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested...
--HST
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Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 14,201
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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 Re: Plant Spirit Personifications? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5223633 - 01/25/06 07:57 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Experiences, both the psychedelic flavor and every other kind, change us continually. Psychedelic ones, tending to be intense, change us more than most. Whether that change is for the better or the worse is entirely up to us.
If you've had a positive life-changing experience with psychedelics, don't thank made up 'psychedelic spirits'... thank yourself! 
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Wanna hear something depressing? One out of four Shroomerites wants to lock me in a government cage for using a substance they don't like.
Hard to believe, right? Read it for yourself:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7874721#Post7874721
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Huehuecoyotl
Stranger
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,158
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Plant Spirit Personifications? [Re: Diploid]
#5223653 - 01/25/06 08:02 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Read my post in the O.K. Swami thread about intent.
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Maybe there is no Heaven. Maybe this is all pure gibberish — a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow — to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whiskey, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested...
--HST
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 Fospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 7 months, 3 days
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Re: Plant Spirit Personifications? [Re: Swami]
#5224279 - 01/25/06 10:55 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
In my psychedelic reasearch that I've been doing one of the more interesting things Ive come across is the idea of Plant Spirits communicating to us through entheogens.
The fact that the experience is indistinguishable from totally synthetic alkaloids points strongly away from the Plant Ally Hypothesis.
Uh, are you referring to Don Juan's ally? What he means is the spirit associated with the plant, such as the Teonanactl of mushrooms and Mescalito of Peyote, not your personal ally.
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Huehuecoyotl
Stranger
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,158
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Plant Spirit Personifications? [Re: Fospher]
#5227469 - 01/26/06 05:37 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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In Castaneda's books the ally was a spirit or inorganic being that had been mastered, and functioned as a familiar of sorts. He did mean that it was your personal ally in those books because you had "wrestled" with it and brought it under your power. A plant would not function as your ally unless you had mastered it. That was the explanation given in the books. Not all plants psychedelic plants were your ally, only the ones mastered.
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Maybe there is no Heaven. Maybe this is all pure gibberish — a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow — to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whiskey, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested...
--HST
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,516
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Plant Spirit Personifications? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5227577 - 01/26/06 05:56 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think I have mastered Vicodin.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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natu
Grow trees,smoke trees.
Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 179
Last seen: 5 years, 19 days
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Re: Plant Spirit Personifications? [Re: Swami]
#5227859 - 01/26/06 06:38 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Swami said:
I don't think its to much of a stretch to say that entheogenic plants have most of their consciousnesses in a chemical of their own...
That is an amazing stretch - actually a chasm-jump.
I also read in national geographic that plants actually do communicate with each other by releasing certain chemicals into the ground or air.
Not relevant.
If you want to take it farther all life and everything is only made of protons neutrons and electrons so if you want to say just because something is a chemical doesn't mean it doesn't have a spirit thats your opinion but it seems to me to be a narrow view.
Opinion? Narrow view because it is grounded in fact? Let's actually try to use our brains here.
DMT is in humans.
DMT is psychotria viridis (and a thousand other plants).
Using your 'theorem' when one ingests DMT, one would simultaneously contact all life forms that contain that chemical? OK, cool then, tell me a little of each plant from direct knowledge.
When I eat fructose, do I contact apples, pears, grapes; etc.?
Do you contact the white willow when eating aspirin? All the rivers and oceans of the world when drinking water?
When Maria Sabina ate lab-produced synthetic psilocybin she could not tell the difference between that and the effects of the fungi.
What plant spirit does one contact when eating LSD; a derivative of ergot, yet not found in nature?
A chemical reaction in the brain affecting serotonin is sufficient explanation without adding mystic realms to the equation.
I want to say that this is perhaps because the spirit is not contained in the plant but the plant open up or makes ourselves available for the spirit to pass through us. But thats boring.
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Wise Man Say
Smile
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Huehuecoyotl
Stranger
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,158
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Plant Spirit Personifications? [Re: Icelander]
#5228496 - 01/26/06 08:09 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was not passing judgement on the idea...only correcting the details of his observation on Castaneda's books.
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Maybe there is no Heaven. Maybe this is all pure gibberish — a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow — to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whiskey, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested...
--HST
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 67,516
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Plant Spirit Personifications? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#5228739 - 01/26/06 08:44 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Nor was I passing judgement on anything you said. I was making joke.
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“What is the ideal for mental health, then? A lived, compelling illusion that does not lie about life, death, and reality; one honest enough to follow its own commandments: I mean, not to kill, not to take the lives of others to justify itself.”
― Ernest Becker
"Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno."
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Huehuecoyotl
Stranger
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,158
Loc: On the Border
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Re: Plant Spirit Personifications? [Re: Icelander]
#5228754 - 01/26/06 08:46 PM (6 years, 3 months ago) |
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Wasn't sure what you meant there...
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Maybe there is no Heaven. Maybe this is all pure gibberish — a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow — to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whiskey, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested...
--HST
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