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OfflinePrajna
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Why do they hate us?
    #5008537 - 12/02/05 10:10 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

*edit*

I have subsequent to posting this, found out that some of the photos...(the rape photos)...on this page are fakes, and I feel stupid because I bought into them without checking my facts first, always a bad thing to do.

As other members on the board have noted, there is no proof that the story that accompanies the pictures in this link has any truth to it either.

This has been a good lesson for me in how easy it is to fall into propaganda. I SHOULD delete the entire thread, but I am going to leave it so that someone else might see it and learn from my mistakes...

*end edit*

Here's the link:
http://www.lilithgallery.com/articles/2005/massgraves_iraq.html


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Edited by Prajna (12/03/05 09:21 AM)

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Invisiblelooner2
ABBA fan

Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Prajna]
    #5008546 - 12/02/05 10:15 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prajna said:

This is why bombs keep killing your soldiers in Iraq, and will continue to kill them until you wake up and realize that you are as heartless and brutal as any oppressive regime out there...




Credibility loss meter: through the roof.

Surprise meter: didn't budge.


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I am in love with Acidic_Sloth


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OfflinePrajna
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: looner2]
    #5008555 - 12/02/05 10:19 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Did you look at the photo's looner?

Do you have the BALLS to follow that link, look at those photos and even TRY to debate that you guys are there to "SAVE" these people.


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Invisiblelooner2
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Prajna]
    #5008569 - 12/02/05 10:23 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, I looked at the photos. Didn't really take balls to follow the link, however. But personal challenges vary from individual to individual.

The first couple from the rape scene. What is that? Looks like it was done in Nevada. The BDU's aren't even military issued unless its 1985, and they were different on each soldier. The rest pickings from Abu-Gharab? Yes, the actions of a dozen represent the good deeds of 150,000. Good analysis!

Not that these photos even need attention. A gallery from some toronto photography club isn't exactly journalism. But again, you have lost all credibility anyway, and again, I'm not surprised.


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OfflinePrajna
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: looner2]
    #5008620 - 12/02/05 10:43 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

The point of this is not what *I* think of these photos, it's what the 1 billion Muslims out there think of these photos. The title of the thread is "Why do they hate us?"

And in a closed prison even a dozen "bad seeds" could torture literally HUNDREDS of helpless people...

And where are the 150,000 "good" soldiers to knock some sense into these few bad apples? Where is the outrage from the other soldiers?

These photos show that your some of your soldiers are CLEARLY not treating people like human beings, and the chain of command is not on the ball enough to notice a giant pyramid of naked men sitting in the hallway of the prison.

How would you feel if that guy hanging from his wrists was your brother, or your dad looner?

You would want to blow them up...

That's my point...

Wake up dude...


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Edited by Prajna (12/02/05 10:44 PM)

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Invisiblelooner2
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Registered: 06/20/04
Posts: 3,849
Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Prajna]
    #5008640 - 12/02/05 10:52 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prajna said:
And where are the 150,000 "good" soldiers to knock some sense into these few bad apples? Where is the outrage from the other soldiers?




You mean the outrage that was seen throughout the American public? Throughout the military ranks, and the current outrage that threw the bad apples in prison?

Yeah, no outrage!


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OfflinePrajna
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: looner2]
    #5008659 - 12/02/05 11:02 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

What "people", one scapegoat woman?


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OfflineWhiteBunny
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: looner2]
    #5008691 - 12/02/05 11:15 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

looner2 said:
Quote:

Prajna said:

This is why bombs keep killing your soldiers in Iraq, and will continue to kill them until you wake up and realize that you are as heartless and brutal as any oppressive regime out there...




Credibility loss meter: through the roof.

Surprise meter: didn't budge.




Dido, those "rape photos could be any white people in the world wearing camo. Also it's funny that there is not one link to were this information was obtained from. No one is credit for photo's and intel. What exactly are U.S rounds? How are they different from other peoples rounds? We are talking about small arms rounds not depleted uranium shells from tanks here. It's kind of wrong to try to publish something that is base almost 100% on speculation. It's like me saying that since a man was found dead stabbed with an ice icesicle it had to be a Canadian. I am not trying to bash you here but it's not creditable. Need some references bud.

WB


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Invisiblebukkake
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Prajna]
    #5008761 - 12/02/05 11:40 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prajna said:
These photos show that your some of your soldiers are CLEARLY not treating people like human beings, and the chain of command is not on the ball enough to notice a giant pyramid of naked men sitting in the hallway of the prison.

How would you feel if that guy hanging from his wrists was your brother, or your dad looner?

You would want to blow them up...

That's my point...

Wake up dude...



Yes. And that is the beauty of propaganda. Aljazeera shows nothing but propaganda to the Arab world, much like Fox News/CNN/MSNBC show nothing but gung-ho, nationalistic patriotic garbage to the American public.

Middle Easterns are furious they happen to be seated upon a vast amount of oil wealth, meanwhile, Americans are so fucking stupified by the media they blindly follow to genuinely ask themselves, "why do they hate us?" To the competent person, they hate us because our bombs decimate them, but to the casual American observor who flicks on CNN every now and then, they have no clue why they want us the fuck out of there.

The majority of Americans are not as barbaric to be FOR the usage of chemical weapons(like white phosphorus or in Vietnam the napalms/Agent Orange), mass civilian casualties, and hegemony. They just appear to be supposedly "FOR" it because our media doesn't report it or make as big an issue about it. We're still "the good guys", but we clearly are not and never have been.

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OfflinePrajna
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Prajna]
    #5008772 - 12/02/05 11:44 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

True enough on the rape photos, Bunny, however anyone who hasn't been living under a rock for the last year knows that the majority of these photos are the real deal. 

I will also concede that looner seems to know his military garb, so I will take his word for it...

I should not have to give sources on the abu-gharab pics, because as a society, we've already been through that and know they are real.

I'm ready to give up on it though, you win looner...

I don't have the strength or patience required to make my point anymore, I'm saddened and dismayed by the fact that there are people out there who really just don't care about others in a fundamental human rights based way...

I fear that there are dark days ahead for us all...

I did like the "Canadian killed by icicle" analogy though Bunny...very witty!... :grin: :thumbup:


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Invisiblebukkake
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Prajna]
    #5008941 - 12/03/05 12:42 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prajna said:
I will also concede that looner seems to know his military garb, so I will take his word for it...



I wouldn't go that far. Don't give the man who questioned me on soldiers fragging their commanders during Vietnam any credibility.

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Offlineexclusive58
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Registered: 04/16/04
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Prajna]
    #5009116 - 12/03/05 02:07 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

You only gave a small part of the answer to the question "why do they hate us?" here. There are many more reasons. But if you were to write out these reasons in a post nobody would read them because it would be too long...

What's important is to understand each other. Iraqis must understand how the american public is being manipulated, and the americans must understand that their actions in Iraq weren't truly done in the name of freedom and liberty or whatever.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: exclusive58]
    #5009307 - 12/03/05 04:13 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

The first couple from the rape scene. What is that? Looks like it was done in Nevada. The BDU's aren't even military issued unless its 1985, and they were different on each soldier.




http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38335

Quote:

Bogus GI rape photos used
as Arab propaganda
Pictures purporting to be U.S. troops actually taken from porn sites

A WND investigation has revealed that most of the photos are taken from the American pornographic website "Iraq Babes," and the Hungarian site, "Sex in War," which is linked to by the American site. Both websites are linked to by violent pornography sites and both describe Iraqi women -- played by "actresses" -- in vulgar terms.




the only thing that looked weird to me was not the camo, (if you have been in the military, you would know that some people do wear faded camo, its not that uncommon), but the hats.. to be outside without a hat on, or wearing a baseball cap? just looks strange.

This post is propaganda. If you can't convince yourself this war is a huge mistake, and a carefully planned conspiracy without these photos and sensational reports, then you should TRULY be ashamed.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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OfflinePrajna
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Re: Why do they hate us? *DELETED* [Re: kotik]
    #5009610 - 12/03/05 07:55 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by Prajna

Reason for deletion: bad info...



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OfflinePrajna
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Prajna]
    #5009626 - 12/03/05 08:04 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

The point of this thread isn't to PROVE anything anyway, I'm not TRYING to be a propagandist, I readily admitted that I can't source the article, so I said don't read it, same with the rape photos, ignore them...

However, why do you insist on throwing the baby out with the bathwater?

The prison photos are 100% real, and we all know it, what about those?


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Edited by Prajna (12/03/05 08:50 AM)

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Prajna]
    #5009667 - 12/03/05 08:46 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prajna said:
The point of this thread isn't to PROVE anything anyway





You could have fooled me.

Quote:

Prajna said:
I'm far from a propagandist





Then why are you so easily buying into propagandha?

Quote:

Prajna said:
I readily admitted that I can't source the article, so I said don't read it, same with the rape photos...





If it has questionable credibility then why did you post it?

Quote:

Prajna said:
The prison photos are 100% real, and we all know it, what about those?




Yes, those prison photos are real. That means that the soldiers who were involved in those things are guilty of some serious harrassment and humiliation of those prisoners and should be punished accordingly (the soldiers have been charged in case you didn't know). Whenever you have a large group of thousands of people, there are going to be some bad apples. Are there some bad apple cops? Of course there are. Are there some bad apple U.S. military personnel? Of course there are. Are there some bad apple Muslims? Of course there are. The actions of .01% of a community should not be used as condemnation for the other 99.99%.

Did the Abu Grhaib thing put a dent in America's image? Of course it did. Did it piss off some Arabs and some Iraqis? Of course it did. Is it the main reason for the insurgency? Not at all. The reasons that the insurgents are trying to kill U.S. troops are as follows:

1. Some of them are Iraqi nationalists who do not want foreign troops on Iraqi soil.
2. Some of them are Muslim militants who hate America.
3. Some of them are Sunnis who feel disenfranchised.
4. Some of them are Saddam loyalists who want him back.

When you come into this forum screaming, "THIS IS WHY THEY HATE YOU!" be prepared to back up such strong claims with something more substantial than, "Well...I don't have a source....and I don't know if that picture is real.....". Us Shroomery political people are pretty picky and we demand accuracy.

Edited by RandalFlagg (12/04/05 01:09 PM)

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OfflineBaby_Hitler
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Prajna]
    #5009668 - 12/03/05 08:49 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

The ones who hate us do so because we came there to kill them.

We came there to kill them because they needed killing.

People like Saddam, for instance. I bet he hates us long time.

And if the average muslim on the street wants to see America destroyed, and thinks Bin Laden is a hero, then why should I care if they get blowed up?

Now, If we were blowing up peacefull Iraqis who's attitudes towards America and the rest of the world were ambivalent or better, then we might have something to talk about.

The fact that we are killing our enemies doesn't bother me.


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"America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat

“Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.”  -- Thomas Jefferson

The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance.

The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)

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OfflinePrajna
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
    #5009704 - 12/03/05 09:11 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

You're absolutely right Randall, I was wrong to post that link...

It does hurt my credibility and I have subsequently found out that those rape photo's ARE fake.

This thread has helped me to see that I am also subject to being swayed by propaganda, and that I should be more careful about what I post in the future...

Just as some are stuck in far right land, I am also stuck in far left land...perhaps I should strive to center myself...

This post was a dismal failure on my part, and I AM ashamed of myself for being too lazy to source my material better.

But it is good lesson...showed me that I should strive to be less emotional and do my homework better...

But, on the other hand I suppose that is part of why the PAL forum exists...to open up debate and help ourselves challenge our own ingrained assumptions, but again, my apologies...


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Edited by Prajna (12/03/05 09:24 AM)

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InvisibleLos_Pepes
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Prajna]
    #5009904 - 12/03/05 10:36 AM (18 years, 3 months ago)

I've seen photos of women being raped by black males. Should we believe this and blame all black people for white women being raped?

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OfflineWhiteBunny
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Re: Why do they hate us? [Re: Prajna]
    #5010612 - 12/03/05 02:07 PM (18 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Prajna said:
True enough on the rape photos, Bunny, however anyone who hasn't been living under a rock for the last year knows that the majority of these photos are the real deal. 

I will also concede that looner seems to know his military garb, so I will take his word for it...

I should not have to give sources on the abu-gharab pics, because as a society, we've already been through that and know they are real.

I'm ready to give up on it though, you win looner...

I don't have the strength or patience required to make my point anymore, I'm saddened and dismayed by the fact that there are people out there who really just don't care about others in a fundamental human rights based way...

I fear that there are dark days ahead for us all...

I did like the "Canadian killed by icicle" analogy though Bunny...very witty!... :grin: :thumbup:




A agree that some of those picture are real of coarse but I think that if they put bogus pictures in with legit pictures to try to make all of the pictures look authentic then that should send a flag that there is some fishy stuff going on.

WB


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