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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation
#4873582 - 10/31/05 12:10 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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There was a documentary on last night that had to deal with time travel. for years we as humans have been trying to get to the bottom of the time travel blockade, and they may have found an answer!
the documentary started with Newton's idea of time; basically that it is fixed throughout the universe. the time for me is the same time for you, which is the same time throughout the universe. his ideas were revolutionary at that time (pun not intended he he) and his three laws of motion developed the calculus. philosophically speaking, since time is the same for everywhere, it is very ordered, so ordered in fact that everything would be predetermined.
Then came Einstein! Einstein showed that space and time are actually linked together, the faster you go, the slower time gets. The clock on top of a skyscraper in fact shows different time then a clock on the bottom of that same skyscraper.
We do actually have a time traveler in our midst! though I don't remember the name, he spent over 700 hours on the Mir space station and when he got back, he had aged a 50th of a second less! Einstein says we can time travel, but only to the future, and not the past. this blockade seem certain, until 5 years ago a group of philosophers and scientist got together. their method didn't have to deal with warping space, or have to mesh together cosmic strings, instead it dealt with the computer.
The fact they gave is that processing power in computers get exponentially faster every 18 months or so. right now we see very real graphics, just look at the jump from the PS1 to the xbox! these scientist gave a theory that stated, "what would happen if computers kept up on this progress unabated, we could create a near perfect virtual world in 2000 years."
since this is the case, it causes us to question, how do we know that this isn't a simulation now? in fact, probability shows that it is very likely that we might be one of many simulations occurring right now, given our understanding of how long the universe has been around and how huge the universe is.
philosophically speaking, this would show how free will would indeed be an illusion, since there is a very high chance that we are a simulation, created by others for their own understanding!!!
this might explain the nature of deja vu for instance! maybe even why some of us feel the plasticity of things whilst under the influence of drugs.
even the huge machine like nature of everything around us in the salvia or DMT 'realm'
my only thing would be this...if this is a simulation...what should we make of dreams then?
-------------------- Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: kaiowas]
#4873607 - 10/31/05 12:17 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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or OOBE's?
but this is all so ..... matrixism....
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spock
journeyman
Registered: 08/26/03
Posts: 1,165
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: kaiowas]
#4873850 - 10/31/05 02:07 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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i'm trying to wrap my head around realativity. if i'm a lightyear away from earth and you know i'm on my way home now and i can travel the speed of light. do i see you one year from today? not changeing the subject but this is something i'm realy trying to understand.
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: spock]
#4873943 - 10/31/05 04:18 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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this post just sounds like a more boring matrix idea...
and although the article you read stated 2000 years from now, i assure you it would take much less time than that according to Moore's Law.
Quote:
if i'm a lightyear away from earth and you know i'm on my way home now and i can travel the speed of light. do i see you one year from today?
http://users.chariot.net.au/~gmarts/timegifs.htm
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: kotik]
#4876618 - 10/31/05 07:11 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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"and although the article you read stated 2000 years from now, i assure you it would take much less time than that according to Moore's Law."
Moore's Law broke down early this year. Intel and AMD have to move to dual core CPUs to increase CPU power, but this did not increase speed only the amount of data that it can handle at once. The P4 was planned to top 8Ghz, but it couldn't make 4 without a meltdown. A perfect simulation can never be produced regardless of the CPU speed as we will never achieve full understanding of all the factors involved. It also must be stated that simulated people do not have to be self aware to mimic a set of behaviors, so the simulation idea is unlikely. If it is a simulation could the sys admin please turn down the intensity on this toothache that I have right now? I would appreciate it.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#4876626 - 10/31/05 07:13 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh shit!!! My toothache just vanished...
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#4876862 - 10/31/05 08:03 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
The P4 was planned to top 8Ghz, but it couldn't make 4 without a meltdown.
prove there are no computers that hit 8ghz
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: kotik]
#4876904 - 10/31/05 08:12 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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I said the P4. Moore's law was only intended to apply to Intel products as Moore worked for Intel. There may be Mainframes that top 8Ghz, but no desktop does it yet.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#4876935 - 10/31/05 08:17 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moore's law was only intended to apply to Intel products as Moore worked for Intel.
fortunately, you can always extrapolate certain things and arrive at even more conclusions.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#4878856 - 11/01/05 09:15 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Huehuecoyotl said: "and although the article you read stated 2000 years from now, i assure you it would take much less time than that according to Moore's Law."
Moore's Law broke down early this year. Intel and AMD have to move to dual core CPUs to increase CPU power, but this did not increase speed only the amount of data that it can handle at once. The P4 was planned to top 8Ghz, but it couldn't make 4 without a meltdown. A perfect simulation can never be produced regardless of the CPU speed as we will never achieve full understanding of all the factors involved. It also must be stated that simulated people do not have to be self aware to mimic a set of behaviors, so the simulation idea is unlikely. If it is a simulation could the sys admin please turn down the intensity on this toothache that I have right now? I would appreciate it.
Do you know what Moore's Law is?
It certainly cannot be equated directly to processor speed in GHz. Some processors perform far better at lower clock rates than other processors running at higher clock rates.
The most common aspect used for Moore's Law is the number of transistors on a chip - the Law states that this number will double roughly every 18 months. Again this does not translate directly into clock speed increases. If they place two cores on a single chip, that doubles the number of transistors very easily.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!
Registered: 09/11/04
Posts: 10,888
Loc: I re·side [primarily] in...
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: kaiowas]
#4878924 - 11/01/05 09:40 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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if you travel "back" in time, and kill you mother.. that will be what you do, as you, being you, still..
ah.. fuck it. anyways.. if you could go back and kill yourself, you would be non-existing..
go figure? :P
this IS traveling time..
yeah.. dreams.. dreams of reality, and the reality of dreams..
-------------------- -------------------- Disclaimer!?
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: kaiowas]
#4879606 - 11/01/05 12:53 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Interesting! I didn't read through all the replies and someone may have already said this. You asked about dreaming. What if the dreamer or one who is consciously awake in dreams when we are asleep is the one creating the simulation , like in what you said here;
Quote:
philosophically speaking, this would show how free will would indeed be an illusion, since there is a very high chance that we are a simulation, created by others for their own understanding!!!
A lot of people think "God" is the dreamer and we are the dream simulation.
I think ego allows for free will choices to be made against the dreamers wishes though. Just my opinion.
Why would it allow for that is the question? Maybe it didn't, maybe the simulation, like with what some fear about AI like in IRobot, took on a mind of its own and started thinking independently through the ego. Could be.
Fun topic. Thanks Kaio!
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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poke smot!
floccinocci floofinator
Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 5,248
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation *DELETED* [Re: kaiowas]
#4880031 - 11/01/05 03:07 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by poke smot!Reason for deletion: x
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poke smot!
floccinocci floofinator
Registered: 01/08/03
Posts: 5,248
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation *DELETED* [Re: poke smot!]
#4880056 - 11/01/05 03:14 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by poke smot!Reason for deletion: x
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: poke smot!]
#4880104 - 11/01/05 03:28 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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poke smot: If you haven't, you really should read this story!!! It's right along those lines.
http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/cmp/neil_g.html
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: trendal]
#4882647 - 11/02/05 06:48 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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"Do you know what Moore's Law is?"
I do realize that Moore's law concerned the number of transistors in a chip...not clock rate. You also must realize that 2 cores at 2Ghz are still not as fast (it will carry greater load) as 1 3Ghz core. Gordon Moore was not considering multicore chips in 1975 so his so called "law" is out of context in that setting. It was also originally a statement specific to Intel and intended for application to x86 architecture, though it has been misappropriated many times.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#4882748 - 11/02/05 07:50 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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His actual statement was:
Quote:
The complexity for minimum component costs has increased at a rate of roughly a factor of two per year ... Certainly over the short term this rate can be expected to continue, if not to increase. Over the longer term, the rate of increase is a bit more uncertain, although there is no reason to believe it will not remain nearly constant for at least 10 years. That means by 1975, the number of components per integrated circuit for minimum cost will be 65,000. I believe that such a large circuit can be built on a single wafer.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#4882750 - 11/02/05 07:54 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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As you can see he wasn't considering multi-core chips or anything like that, but that certainly doesn't exclude them from the Law.
He was simply talking about the chip complexity - the number of transistors per wafer. That doesn't mean "number of chips per core", so it doesn't matter how many "cores" you have on a chip (if any at all) just how many transistors.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Darcho
PhysicallyDetermined
Registered: 07/26/04
Posts: 426
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: trendal]
#4882780 - 11/02/05 08:13 AM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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Check, ch-check, check, check it out:
http://www.simulation-argument.com/
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laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,829
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Re: scientist say it is very possible we are all a computer simulation [Re: Darcho]
#4934494 - 11/14/05 09:06 PM (18 years, 4 months ago) |
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I would say the only interesting aspect of the quote is that a scientist is comfortable admitting that ultimately we know nothing
the idea is not much different from Chung Tzu saying hundereds or thousands of years ago: That he dreamt he was a butterfly and that now upon awakening how could he be sure he wasn't a butterfly dreaming he was a man?
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