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 MJF
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 challenge me. 
#4795956 - 10/13/05 12:50 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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can you grow spiritually with out being challenged?
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MJF
Human Being
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Re: challenge me. [Re: MJF]
#4795975 - 10/13/05 12:54 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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anyone know the root meaning of the word challenge...or where it came from....
right after i posted this thread...the word chalice came to my mind for some reason...i don't see how those would be related though
what was that thing in Dan Brown's book the Da Vinci Code...where that one dude...had some kind of thing wrapped around his leg to give him pain and had something to do with sin and spiritual stuff....
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 Az0th
quantum transfiguration
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Re: challenge me. [Re: MJF]
#4796071 - 10/13/05 01:18 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Life is a challenge. And a beautiful one at that.
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~Thought Creates Reality~
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daimyo
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Re: challenge me. [Re: MJF]
#4796074 - 10/13/05 01:19 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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The word challenge is from the Old French(late 13th century) word chalenge meaning accusation/claim.
I think it's Latin version would be calumnia which means slander/false accusation.
The accusation aspect of the word was replaced with a "let's fight" type of meaning by the 17th century.
The device from the book was refered to as a cilice...
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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daimyo
Monticello
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Re: challenge me. [Re: MJF]
#4796088 - 10/13/05 01:24 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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You can grow spiritualy without being challenged. However you will not get to experience all the different views of the world, and in turn confine yourself to a cultish belief system.
But the truth is different for all.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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MJF
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Re: challenge me. [Re: daimyo]
#4796098 - 10/13/05 01:26 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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do you know where the word cilice came from?
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Re: challenge me. [Re: MJF]
#4796242 - 10/13/05 02:03 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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There are many ways people look at that. First off, it's important to realize that not everyone with spiritual goals , have the same ones.
There are schools of thought that say the only challenge is to overcome the need to feel challenged and then, you will be at peace. A challenge to improve or better implies there is a duality conflict. The person trying to go from worse to better will be in a state of conflict and not peace. The idea is to be, release needs and desires and go with the flow.
Thats a little to passive for me, however, I fall back on that school of thought when, I want quick and easy inner peace. I let the fuck go of everything I think is wrong or needs improvement, love everything as it is and I am "there".
I guess I am yet stimulated by duality contrasts because I do like a challenge.
HOWEVER, I set up MY OWN, WHEN, I want them and relative to a specific personal goal of mine, because it's my life to lead and live, no one elses. If I fuck up, I only have myself to blame and I like it that way.
I don't need anyone doing it for me based on their goals or what they think I should be doing for spiritual growth. I think those types of people are control freaks and need to mind their own.
I enjoy putting myself to the test. Sometimes, I test how my ego can serve me in creating realities. Others are challenging themselves how to just live from the observer self. I did that for a while and felt like I lost touch and so decided it best to set goals again and just master my ego to serve me in my goals, rather then, IT mastering ME to serve it. I do like to keep aware in the observer self at the same time just to make sure the ego self doesn't doesn't go to far down the drink.
If I am running those tests challenges or experience of my own, I don't need someone on an ego loss spiritual path telling me I need to overcome my ego.
Sometimes, I am intentionally seeing how far I can blast my way down into a density and lighten it up or pull up and out again without getting burned or stuck in the muck. I don't need someone on a spiritual path to the higher planes telling me, I am going the wrong way.
Down is up if you flip it over.
Some people think the the real growth starts AFTER you find inner peace.
Some people think real growth happens through chaos and conflict.
Whose right?
Who cares? It's their business to think which way is the right way for them.
Some people have a challenge to stay above the shit.
Others have a challenge to be able to master the shit. Then they become a shit masters and think, "hey, is this all there is to life, mastering the sewers of existence? Maybe those people challenging themselves to stay above it had it right . Sometimes, the people trying to stay above it, get curious about the smell down there and before they know it, they become shit masters.
It's cool to share goals and personal challenges, and see the different stuff people are up too, but not cool in my book to think anyone who doesn't have the same goals or challenge, test, growth methods as you do are WRONG.
Some people want to master personal empowerment and self control. Some people want to master having power and control over others.
Some think you only grow without challenge and are held back by the duality conflict of it.
Some think we need challenges and only grow through duality, and after that, it's different for everyone in some way what they want to challenge themselves with.
Decide for yourself or test them all out. The challenge ways and the no challenge ways.
Personally, when I move into liking challenges, I often end up thinking I am just yet a sucker for punishment.
I think I am at the utmost of my inner strength when, I am humbly removed from the need to prove myself in anyway to myself or anyone else. The peace is exquisite and powerful.
To each his own. At the end of everyday, it's our own conscious we have to face in the dark quiet of the night before we fall asleep. Some people just have a goal of keeping that clean and clear and at peace.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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daimyo
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Re: challenge me. [Re: MJF]
#4796252 - 10/13/05 02:05 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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It's French. Stemming from the Latin word cilicium which refers to Cilicia(ancient region in southern Asia Minor).
The original cilice was made from goatskin which was acquired from Cilicia.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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MJF
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Quote:
It's cool to share goals and personal challenges, and see the different stuff people are up too, but not cool in my book to think anyone who doesn't have the same goals or challenge, test, growth methods as you do are WRONG.
one problem I've been having with that recently though is.....isn't it just as wrong to say that the people who say others are wrong are wrong for calling others wrong? (whoa...don't know if I worded that right....but I think you will know what I'm talking about).
why do people take thinks so harshly when people call them wrong? i know i do....but all the other person is saying is that they have a differing view...and their reasons (in their view) are more powerful than my reasons.
Edited by MJF (10/13/05 02:13 AM)
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MJF
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Re: challenge me. [Re: MJF]
#4796300 - 10/13/05 02:15 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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does the name Cilicia symbolize anything?
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daimyo
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Re: challenge me. [Re: MJF]
#4796364 - 10/13/05 02:27 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Nothing other than itself as far as I know.
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"I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
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gettinjiggywithit
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Re: challenge me. [Re: MJF]
#4796366 - 10/13/05 02:27 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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Funny! Yes, I know what you are saying. That's why I said, people who say others who don't do it their way are wrong, are not cool in my book. I didn't say I think they are wrong for telling others they are wrong or else, I would become someone telling people they are wrong for not doing things my way to not tell others they are wrong then I would make myself uncool by personal default settings.  
By cool, I mean cool as in, often when people are told they are wrong, it's taken as a put down and things get heated and are no longer "cool".
It's totally different when someone can show respect for someones way and offer other ways and options they found to work well, without being pushy or judgmental. Thats totally different then telling someone. You're wrong, I'm right, your way sucks mine is better.
Like with everything, it's not so much what is said, but HOW it is said. People would get a lot further with others if they would leave out offensive positioning or wording. When you put people on the defense, they stop listening and your wasting your time after that.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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MJF
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Yeah the How is big time....
not that what I'm about to say applies here in on the net...but in my interpersonal communication class we talked about how non verbal communication plays a big role too....maybe more than verbal...
we have i think 7 universal facial expressions (aren't bound by culture) and they trigger stuff in our brains with out us even knowing it...or maybe thats just for the 3 different faces for fear, surprise, and maybe anger...or contempt...i forget exactly what the third was...
we watched a really cool documentary called "the human face" w/ John Cleese (did you know he was a psychologist?)....it was really good...i def recommend.
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
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Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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One more thing related to that. I think what is even MORE uncool then telling people they are doing something wrong because it's not their way, is doing it when the other never even asked for such opinions. That's really obnoxious.
If people ask, for such opinions looking for a new or better way, then, there are ways to go about it without having to put the way the they had been doing down or calling it wrong. You can screw yourself if you care about that person because, what if they end up deciding the way they were doing it is best for them.
Now they know that you are in dissaproval of their ways and that can make a close relationship get awkward.
Like those friends who come to you complaining with relationship problems for advise, and you tell them to dump that bitch or no good bastard and then, they go right back to them. And now, your friend knows you think their lovey is a bitch or no good bastard and they end up resenting you.
There is the challenge of learning when to bite your tongue when you care more about a friendship then the issue. Thats a good one too.
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Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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MJF
Human Being
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Yeah...that is pretty dang annoying.
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MJF
Human Being
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Re: challenge me. [Re: MJF]
#4796461 - 10/13/05 02:55 AM (7 years, 7 months ago) |
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but also...some times it just dosn't matter if they want it or not....like our government....or institutions that have any kind of power.....
and maybe if it's just an influential person...and you'd like to change their views becuase you'd like to see them influence in another way.
Edited by MJF (10/13/05 03:00 AM)
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