Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!
|
 Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
|
 Re: The Only Thing That Matters  [Re: Icelander]
#4272075 - 06/08/05 03:48 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I'm trying to stay with you here. Now what is left after all sub-programs are dropped? And what does that primary program look like to you?
You really want me to spoil the whole enlightenment, secret of the universe thingie for you?
What is left is The Now. ALL programming is time-related.
Have you ever read any of the original Tarzan books? To Tarzan, to think was to act. There was no middle-man between thought and action. It was a singular response. Reality was a much more direct experience for him. Same with Bruce Lee.
Though I hardly claim to be programless, here is an example that I presented before. My mother and I were robbed at gunpoint about 3.5 years ago on Thanksgiving day. She was petrified with fear. My relative youth and maleness afforded me no more protection in this case, so why was I not equally afraid? Fear is ALWAYS about what might happen. I was more concerned with what WAS happening.
Again, do not misundertand. I am not macho nor fearless, but in this particular scenario, my whole focus was on how to get out of the episode unharmed. I was also watching intently to see if harm was coming. If I sensed that, I was willing to make a desperate play.
My mother was afraid because she was playing out subprograms.
WARNING: RACQUETBALL AHEAD! 
I played this morning against a whole new crew. I normally play nights. I chewed 'em up and spit 'em out. One guy was stuck in the past on the point he just misplayed and was constantly cussing (an emotional "I suck" program kept playing in his head.) Another was afraid he would skip the shot, so instead gave me high setups that I easily put away. His "fear of failure" program kept him from performing. Another was pretty good, but predictable, so was easy to read his patterns and counterpunch. What followed was frustration, anger and deteriorating performance by them and better performance by me. I ended up running 10 points in a row against two players as they kept feeding me.
I could "hear" one guys thoughts, "I SHOULD be beating Swami!" An idea about what should be, interferes with WHAT IS. With fewer sub-programs running, one is more adaptable to WHAT IS ACTUALLY GOING ON.
When I was a young man, I was fairly shy around women. I thought that was simply the WAY I WAS and that was that. It was merely a sub-program that I regognized and dispatched. That doesn't make me a Cassanova today, but I no longer tremble when approaching any woman.
Back to your original thought. Yes, liking yourself is better than loathing yourself, but not as good as carrying no ideas at all. All ideas of self are a barrier to direct experience and are fixed in time.
--------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
|
gettinjiggywithit
jiggy
 
Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
|
|
I wanted to add more food for thought about an advantage the alone being in the gray objectless world has. When he gets to realize that everywhere he ends up and what he feels is the result of his choosing, he lives without external blame.
Think of how fast your growth and sense of responsibility with the choices you make would skyrocket. Being able to put cause of where we are or how we feel onto the external world does seem to slow it all down.
Objectless man is hypothetical however, if you could produce such a circumstance, I don't think he would fall into the self blame self judgment self punishment game the way people do. he would just revert back to making the choices that feel better and move on.
It's when we don't "connect" when we relate with others that we start creating objects a part from ourselves and that is what allows for the blame, guilt punishment game to slow us up. We do it to others when we shut them out and judge and blame them when they are attempting to connect and relate with us.
Quote:
Take alone being in his gray objectless world. He could start to realize on his own, that when he does this and thinks that, he feels good. He can start to realize that when he does this or that he doesn't feel so good. He would begin to realize that he had a choice over feeling good or not so good by what he chooses to do or think.
--------------------
Ahuwale ka nane huna.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,808
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: The Only Thing That Matters [Re: Swami]
#4272173 - 06/08/05 04:12 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Well I see what you're saying here. I actually know what you're saying. Dropping these programs is what I work on alot. The state you describe I have only experienced a few times.
The important thing for me is not the knowing about the thingie of no middleman between thought and action. It is the actual dropping of the sub-programs. I have certain techniques for that, which you seem to feel are not correct. I have endevored to tell you that I experience that they work well for me. I am talking about using psychedelics as a tool for dropping sub-programs.
Now as a Martial Artist I know that self defense is based on that not thinking but acting. Most people fail not because of lack of technique. They fail because of too much thinking, usually fear based sub-programs as you call them.
I think we understand this the same. I agree  , our methods for achieving this may differ, but IMO that is minor.  
It amazes me how much your ideas go along with some of the fiction in Castanads books. " A warrior seeks to act rather than talk."
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
|
Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
|
Re: The Only Thing That Matters [Re: Icelander]
#4272618 - 06/08/05 06:25 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
A warrior seeks to act rather than talk."
Yeah, with 12,000+ posts, I hardly jabber at all. 
--------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,808
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: The Only Thing That Matters [Re: Swami]
#4272637 - 06/08/05 06:29 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Well I was going to subsitute think for talk, but I don't know how well you do on that one either.
Who da man. You da man. 
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
|
Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
|
Re: The Only Thing That Matters [Re: Icelander]
#4272710 - 06/08/05 06:46 PM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Now as a Martial Artist I know that self defense is based on that not thinking but acting. Most people fail not because of lack of technique. They fail because of too much thinking, usually fear based sub-programs as you call them.
I once taught women's self-defence course at a community college even though I have almost no martial arts training.
The course was three-fold, the least of which was the striking techniques.
The most important parts were:
1. Removing the "I am a helpless female" sub-program. Note that we did NOT attempt to replace it with the "I am powerful" sub-program. What we did was to get the women to feel their anger and rage and channel it by feeling the animal strength they ALREADY had, but had been suppressing.
I taught that the attacker was playing his own "I will scare the shit out of her and she will passively give me what I want" program and thus that could be utilized. This tied in to the next point as you mentioned.
2. The women were taught to act IMMEDIATELY! Not to stand there and say, "Gee, I hope helps comes along" or "If I cry or acquiesce he will not hurt me" or any other helpless program. They were to strike fiercely and without mercy, to stun him as badly as possible then to run while he was recovering.
Surprisingly to me, I also had to teach many "how to" run. It was amazing the total number of sub-programs running that kept them from defending themselves in order to "look, feel and act" like a lady.
Out of about 30 trained, I got a call from a diminutive 5' 2", 110lb woman a year or so later. She told how she stopped a large attacker cold as soon as he grabbed her from behind when she crushed his foot, spun and smashed his larynx and took off. She laughed as she said that I wouldn't believe the look of shock on the attacker's face.
Here is some amazing real-world evidence about women's programming and athletics. Some 30 years ago, the best female marathoners were a full hour behind the men. Today, they are less than 10 minutes behind.
--------------------
The proof is in the pudding.
|
 crunchytoast
oppositional
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
|
Re: The Only Thing That Matters [Re: Prosgeopax]
#4274162 - 06/09/05 01:05 AM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Prosgeopax said:
Quote:
Swami said:
It is not what goods or knowledge you have accumulated; not what psychedelic insights you have been shown; it is the people that you have touched and the relationships you have forged. All else pales in comparison.
Well, shit. I'm in trouble.
yeah me too
Quote:
Swami said:
Follow me on this. It is only the most important discussion to ever take place on S&P.
well at least modesty isn't important. <sighs with relief>
just teasing you, swami 
--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,808
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: The Only Thing That Matters [Re: crunchytoast]
#4274183 - 06/09/05 01:10 AM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Swami said:
Follow me on this. It is only the most important discussion to ever take place on S&P.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well at least modesty isn't important. <sighs with relief>
just teasing you, swami
_________________________________________________________________
I saw that too but was polite enough not to mention it. He does get carried away. Unbridled enthusiasm
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
|
crunchytoast
oppositional
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
|
Re: The Only Thing That Matters [Re: Icelander]
#4274318 - 06/09/05 01:47 AM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
i hope it doesn't come across as impolite, i was just kidding
--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,808
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: The Only Thing That Matters [Re: crunchytoast]
#4274325 - 06/09/05 01:51 AM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
I hear he bites. 
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
|
crunchytoast
oppositional
Registered: 04/07/05
Posts: 1,133
Loc: aporia
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
|
Re: The Only Thing That Matters [Re: Icelander]
#4274337 - 06/09/05 01:58 AM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
--------------------
"consensus on the nature of equilibrium is usually established by periodic conflict." -henry kissinger
Edited by crunchytoast (06/09/05 01:59 AM)
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 79,808
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: The Only Thing That Matters [Re: crunchytoast]
#4274345 - 06/09/05 02:03 AM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
ouch!
--------------------
"Hang on tightly, let go lightly" -anonymous
“under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. we have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. we have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
|
the_phoenix
Stranger
Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 541
Loc: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
|
Re: The Only Thing That Matters [Re: Icelander]
#4274644 - 06/09/05 04:00 AM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
Most people haven't reached enlightenment. Or in other words, most people have yet to fully recognize their higher selves. Because there is a spectrum, isn't there? The most superficial aspects of my being, more fundamental ones, and so on. We are all small wholes which, combined, form a larger whole. We all possess various facets, all symbolic of a common higher self.
Call me self-centered, but I'm my own best friend and consider personal spiritual growth to be of the utmost importance. Yes, what ultimately matters is people, and interpersonal interaction. But in order to positively influence those around you, first you must be adequately wise and awake. 'Ignoramuses' tend to help problems, it turns out, by perpetuating them.
Each of our beings is so vast and profound, I think the point when a person can say they've found themselves and can devote themselves to helping others is distant for most. Helping themselves is the best way to help others, and as we all evolve, we share our experiences, as the learner is the best teacher.
But the goal is not to help others, from a fixed egocentric position. Socializing goes both ways and one must be open to give, and to receive and evolve one's self. Encounters between people should be mutually beneficial, even if one person learns a simple truth from it and the other person a very deep truth.
I don't try to find a bone to pick with everything you say Swami. But knowledge is power, and more power allows my influence over others to be stronger. I can do more good in the world if I can produce solid arguments to sway people, if I can properly embody principles that aren't innate but must be learnt, if I can navigate through social customs so wisely that I go through the motions instinctively and emmit the definite yet ambiguous sense that something deeper is at work.
Life is an art, and many people still have to learn this, which in turn involves unlearning other ideas. Don't rush head-first into life, because what if you are mistaking it for, say, suffering? Well you'll have a shitty time. Life is not some external, objective thing, but rather it varies according to your perspective of it. So what could be more important that self-growth, which translates into your life's growth. As others look at your life, they see what you truly think of it, what you reflect in everything you do. Our selves are the apparatuses with which we reach out and effectuate change in others.
|
GeoMcCheeseburgers
one-eyed willie
Registered: 07/08/03
Posts: 39,543
|
Re: The Only Thing That Matters [Re: Swami]
#4274729 - 06/09/05 04:50 AM (7 years, 11 months ago) |
|
|
a
--------------------
m00nshine is currently vacationing in Maui. Rumor has it he got rolled by drunken natives and is currently prostituting himself in order to pay for airfare back to the mainland but he's having trouble juggling a hairon addiction. He won't be back for a long while.
Edited by matt (08/31/07 07:52 PM)
|
slaphappy
Its just me
Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 1,188
Loc: Norway, Eidsvoll, Råholt...
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
|
|
Very well indeed. 
--------------------
The argent messenger of truth beyond truth, the antithesis of life, cruel and bleak as interstellar space, pulseless and frozen as absolute zero, dazzling with the frost of irrefragable logic and unforgettable fact.
 
| |
|
|
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Rev. Morton, Diploid
880 topic views. 7 members, 14 guests and 0 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic ]
| | |
|
|
|
Images only 
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Edit 
Reply 
Anonymous
