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 Mobius_Strip
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 Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions
#4127802 - 05/03/05 01:02 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Any insight you guys/ladies have on glove box knowledge and experience would be greatly appreciated.
I've read a lot of posts here about glove boxes flow hoods etc... I like to collect as much info as I can before starting a new project and my next project is a really GOOD glove box. I know, I know follow the teks... I want something of higher quality and more permanent though.
I know and understand the difference between a glove box and a flow hood. What I don't understand is:
1.)how a positive pressure glove box is beneficial over a no-flow glove box.
1B.)In order to make a pos. press. glove box intake HEPA clean air you'd be going through a lot of trouble building a miniature flow hood into your glove box and ultimately how does this benefit you?
2.) What are the advantages and disadvantages of different standard shroomery glove box designs?
3.) What are some problems with glove boxes and how have people solved these problems?
4.) Also, does anyone know where I can get XXL gloves with extra long cuffs? I have monster hands and 99.9% of "large" gloves on the shelf don't fit at all. Prisoner#1 (I think) mention birthing gloves once. I'd prefer something a bit thicker and less disposable that I can install into the box and leave them installed long term. Google has been of little use, Help!
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The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky
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Hotnuts
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: Mobius_Strip]
#4127817 - 05/03/05 01:09 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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 agar
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: Mobius_Strip]
#4127844 - 05/03/05 01:19 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Positive pressure glove box's simply add another route for possible contamination to enter a glove box, if the filter & seals are not 100% effective. A tight glove box works fine without it. So, why go to the trouble & expense (no need to answer).
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Mobius_Strip
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: Hotnuts]
#4127846 - 05/03/05 01:21 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Agar: That was my understanding as well. That's why I'm trying make a more definitive glove box post. Just trying to iron things out I guess.
HotNutz:
That's a nice glove box but how does it work for you? Does the fan suck air out of the box or blow air in? What is your contam rate? Did you try without a fan first and do you have lower contam rates than without the fan? I just don't understand how it would be better...
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The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky
Edited by Mobius_Strip (05/03/05 01:23 PM)
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Ol_Mr_Owl
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: Hotnuts]
#4127861 - 05/03/05 01:24 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'm also doing a lot of research on the subject and am about to build one. So here's my understanding on your questions:
1) A positive pressure glove box constantly blows air out of your box. Therefore, if you have any leaks, the air blowing out will keep the contams out. With no pressure glove box, there a slight chance that contams could get in.
1b) A flow hood blows the air free of contams over your work area, but glove box isolates whatever is inside.
2) Not sure what the standard glove box designes are. Basically the major disadvantage of a glove box is that you love dexterity.
3) I've been toying with the idea of using surgical latex gloves, and just slipping in through an opening. With positive pressure, you don't have to worry about leaks around your glove hole too much.
Can't help you with #4. Good luck.
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onetime
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: Mobius_Strip]
#4127864 - 05/03/05 01:25 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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afoaf had 12 out of 12 qt jars go 100% with open air just oust flame torch and ruber gloves
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See?
Yes, with my own three eyes.
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Gr0wer
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: Mobius_Strip]
#4127866 - 05/03/05 01:26 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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1. Postitive pressure allows for movement in the box, your gloves going in and out act as bellows changing the volume of the container. With positive pressure your constantly exchanging the air, so if a contam is in one jar and spores get in the air your chances of contam spread is less then with a passive glovebox where the spores would just linger around as you work.
For a glovebox you can use 1-4 mask cartrige filters with a computer fan blowing through them. Ive used one filter and one fan as a unit with a plastic Q deli container. The common good ones have 99.97 filtration, look at the sheet they come with for filtration ratings and usage. You wont need a big filter with organic filtration cuz thats a carbon scrubber and thats not needed to make a spore free box.
Heres a diagram of my glovebag, i used yellow kitchen gloves with duct taped tubes taped inside and out. It worked contam free. Visibility wasnt too great because the plastic was a bit foggy.
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Gr0wer
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: Gr0wer]
#4127873 - 05/03/05 01:28 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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the diagram
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RogerRabbit
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: agar]
#4127876 - 05/03/05 01:29 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Computer type fans are incapable of developing static pressure, therefore useless. If a ten dollar hepa filter could perform as well as a $125 laminar flow filter, nobody would be using flow hoods.
The theory behind a glovebox is to have very still, not sterile, air. Any turbulence from a fan blowing will decrease the effectiveness of the glovebox. Still air is the key. I get the same performance from my glovebox I get from my flowhood, but of course the flowhood is much easier to work in front of then fumbling around in a glovebox. I installed a set of tyvek wrist sleeves in the openings of my glovebox, then I simply put on a pair of latex gloves and stick my hands through the tyvek sleeves. This allows me to pull my hand out to heat up my scalpel or inoculating loop with an alcohol lamp that is located outside the glovebox.
RR
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agar
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: Mobius_Strip]
#4127931 - 05/03/05 01:44 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I would suggest a google search for a pro grade glovebox, if you can afford it. Look HERE: for instance. A lot of light weight inexpensive glove box's came on the market after the anthrax mail scare.
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Mobius_Strip
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: Gr0wer]
#4127972 - 05/03/05 01:53 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Gr0wer:
You're talking about using an organic respirator cartridge, hmmm. I would imagine that if they filter out fumes they would be effective at filtering spores, am I wrong? So, basicly, if you use a pos pressure box you need an intake>filter and exhaust. The exhaust is generally through the glove holes, am I right? How does the air escape?
-Pos pressure-
Advantages:
+Air movement carries contams out with filtered air in through exhaust port.
Disadvantages:
+Air in must be very sterile
+Exhaust port must be open otherwise contams will be trapped inside. This open port may allow contams in if pressure is not sufficient or there are other, non secured, intakes.
As far a s glove boxes go, the real things have a staging chamber where everything is sterilized before it goes into the box itself, right?
It seems to me the pos pressure box only works if you're creating a mini flow hood with excellent filtration and sufficient air flow: ie a blower and HEPA filtration. So, I guess that a really good positive pressure design would act as a transportable flow hood in a sense.
Something to think about.
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The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky
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Hotnuts
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: agar]
#4128012 - 05/03/05 02:01 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I knew that was comming. I can't figure out why in the world people knock my box so much. I live in a trich enviroment. Deep in the woods where you can see trich growing on trees. I had problems with contamination due to trich if I didn't clean my hands and forearms every f'n time I made a switch in jars or plates in the box. This box gives me much more of a higher % of clean work no matter what anyone thinks. I've done the tests and it works. But, there's no since in building one like this if your not in a trich rich territory. A regular gloove box will work fine, just not in my case! If you go outside in this time of the year and there's pollen and trich spores all over your vehicles and your house, then you better seek alternatives. Because pollens from trees harbor unwanted spores and it really is a pain to keep clean without my box. I NEED A FLOWHOOD. LOL!
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agar
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: Hotnuts]
#4128085 - 05/03/05 02:19 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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I was not knocking your glove box - at all. More power to you.
After fooling with a glove box, I built this big puppy.
Contam rate is about the same, but it sure is a lot more comfortable to work in. But, it takes up as much room as an office desk & is not very portable.
What is funny. I get about a 5% contam rate working in a well sanitized bathroom, using Oust, a mask, gloves & hair cover. With the glove box or flow hood, the contam rate lowered to around 2%.
All in all, a well sanitized bathroom, with heat vent closed, good procedures & equiptment is ALMOST as effective as a glove box, or flow hood (at least for me).
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Hotnuts
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: agar]
#4128144 - 05/03/05 02:36 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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OMG! Agar i'm jealous. That's a nice piece you've got there. Look at the size of that thing. How much $ do you got in that thing?
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agar
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: Hotnuts]
#4128181 - 05/03/05 02:47 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
hotnutz said:
OMG! Agar i'm jealous. That's a nice piece you've got there. Look at the size of that thing. How much $ do you got in that thing?
I wanted one big enough to slide my AA 941 sterilizer in. So, I could open it in a sanitized air flow & still have room to work.
I bought the fan, mounted in a clean room aluminum ceiling housing, prefilter & 48X24X6 inch hepa off eBay, for about $250, then another $50 in legs, kitchen paneling & sealant.
It's nice to have a cold beer in the flow, to sip on - as needed.
It was worth every penny.  
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HippieChick
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Registered: 02/20/05
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: Mobius_Strip]
#4128193 - 05/03/05 02:54 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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If you need large gloves, try Home Depot. I think these were about $8. Good Luck.
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
 Hippie Chick 
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Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose...
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Mobius_Strip
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: HippieChick]
#4129259 - 05/03/05 07:14 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks Hippy,
Unfortunately the large gloves at home depot may as well be a small for me. I rip them up in no time, if I can get them on my hands.
Anyway, do you folks with pos. press. boxes find them to have a higher success rate than no flow box users? Have you compared yours to a no flow box?
I built my box out of 1/2" cabinet grade birch ply and 1/4" plexi. I built in a staging box so that I can easily move things in and out. I'll coat the inside with a thick layer of poly once it's done. The thing is a 10 ton tank but it's large to my specs, more ergonomic and looks nice (the craftsman in me coming out). My dilemma is whether or not to cut more holes in it and go the pos. press. route or no holes and static air. I'm leaning toward the pos. press because it's a larger box and it seems like it would be a good glovebox/flowhood combo with the benefits and options of both, if it's done correctly. So, that's primarily why I'm fishing for more info.
Any of you pos. box users have more input?
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The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky
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HippieChick
Chicks can do ittoo!
Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,329
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: Mobius_Strip]
#4129304 - 05/03/05 07:28 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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These aren't with the other gloves. My hubby is 6'4", 225lbs, and these fit him. Took a week of looking before we found something that would go on his hands. These are quite thick and go up to his elbows.
Check HD again. Like I said, they're not with the other gloves, they are by themselves. Good Luck.
Hippie Chick
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Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose...
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Mobius_Strip
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: HippieChick]
#4129321 - 05/03/05 07:32 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cool,
That sounds like they might fit. I'll definitely give HD another whirl.
Say, is that a big hole in the left side of your glove box? Do you spray lysol in there before using, or what? How do you keep the contams out? Also, what kind of filter are you using on the intake?
Thanks Hippy Chick.
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The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky
Edited by Mobius_Strip (05/03/05 07:36 PM)
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HippieChick
Chicks can do ittoo!
Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,329
Loc: Midwest
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: Mobius_Strip]
#4129351 - 05/03/05 07:36 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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No problem. I think these are actually for industrial clean-up. They were on the end of the paint aisle. Like an end cap. I have had great success with my posi-flow glovebox. With your's being as well constructed as you said, I think you could get good seals so all air being brought in would pass thru a HEPA filter. Good Luck.
HC
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Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose...
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Mobius_Strip
Distant Relative
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Posts: 322
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: Mobius_Strip]
#4129368 - 05/03/05 07:40 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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HotNutz
I have the same question for you. What kind of filter are you using on the intake and do you sterylize the box before every use? What about things you put in the box, do you sterylize everything that goes in? If so, how?
Also, what is the ideal fan to use for good air flow? I was thinking about a amall blower.
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The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate
-Noam Chomsky
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HippieChick
Chicks can do ittoo!
Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,329
Loc: Midwest
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: Mobius_Strip]
#4129520 - 05/03/05 08:16 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Yes, that's a big hole. Place everything in and out of that hole when working. I spray my box out with Lysol before using, turn fan on, spray Lysol on HEPA filter, let run a few minutes and go to work. I wipe all jars and things going into box with Lysol or alcohol wipe. My intake filter is a small HEPA filter from HD. Around $20. Contams are kept out by the air flow. Used silicon to get it fairly air tight when closed up.
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony.
HC
  
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Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose...
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IGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Glove Box - Pos. pressure, all styles, etc... Questions [Re: HippieChick]
#4129586 - 05/03/05 08:25 PM (3 years, 3 months ago) |
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Same problem I had hotnutz....
Tric. is all around me, it sucks...But cleaning everything wher I work...
I might get a box....but what i do now works fine 
-Gnostic
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