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Offlinepsychoanomaly
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Registered: 04/22/09
Posts: 1,682
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Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money?
    #16261174 - 05/21/12 01:21 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

A quote from the Machinima review:

Quote:

Unlike previous Diablos, you never actually attack with your equipped weapon. Instead, all of your attack skills work as modifiers on your weapon’s basic stats. Equip a faster weapon, and your skills will come out faster, and the same is true for weapons with higher damage. It works, but it is a little logically incongruent, especially when your character does an attack that doesn’t involve your equipped weapon at all, like blowing darts.




So... I played the Wizard in the D3 beta, and noticed that my character didn't actually attack with the weapons I equipped. I didn't really know what it was all about, and figured that in the full game I'd certainly be able to equip items and attack with them...

...but apparently that is not the case.

With so many excellent games coming out this month, I'm starting to wonder if I should spend my money on Diablo 3 instead of Max Payne 3 or Dragon's Dogma.

I've been waiting a long time for this game. I've even been playing D2 (almost finished) as a precursor to playing D3. But, now I'm not so sure what to think of the game. It looks fun, sure, but what kind of hacknslash RPG doesn't actually allow you to attack with your equipped weapons? It sounds a bit absurd to me.

I was disappointed by a lot of Blizzards decisions, but this information is a shock to me.


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Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakes.


Are we but a moment found?
Or a moment lost, a moment unbound?

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Offlinemais_yeah
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Registered: 04/29/12
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: psychoanomaly]
    #16261211 - 05/21/12 01:37 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

its weak isnt it? i got a d3 key for free (WoW 1 yr plan) downloaded client played for an hour and was like PFT meh.


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OfflineHuHEN
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: psychoanomaly]
    #16261218 - 05/21/12 01:38 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I was a little suprised by this myself, but once you get into the game you'll find that while this seems like a detracts from the game it really doesn't. You just get used to using your skills only. I do agree it is stupid though, why am a holding a giant sword and never swinging it?


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Offlinepsychoanomaly
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Registered: 04/22/09
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: HuHEN]
    #16261277 - 05/21/12 02:16 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Okay, so please tell me you can at least actually use the weapons as a barbarian?

Also, my D2 character's primary weapon is a long bow. I take it I won't be able to use a bow and arrow in D3? (duel crossbows of the demon hunter excluded)

Please tell me that at least the barbarian can use weapons...

Aside from the weapon thing, I think D3's skill system could really work (despite the fact that it initially upset me), but are skills really your only option? Am I to understand that D3 has no usable weapons (outside of class specific)?

This is upsetting :frown:

Now I'm really considering buying Dragon's Dogma instead...


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Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakes.


Are we but a moment found?
Or a moment lost, a moment unbound?

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Offlinemais_yeah
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: psychoanomaly]
    #16261285 - 05/21/12 02:21 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

cant wait for dogma :333


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Offlineivander
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: mais_yeah]
    #16261746 - 05/21/12 07:56 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

Actually you can use basic attack.. but its kind of useless since all skills you have are more efficient. Why would you use simple attack which deals 100% weapon dmg, when you can use bash skill or whatever which does not waste "mana" and deals 135% weapon dmg.


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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. - Nietzsche

I've never faked a sarcasm in my life. True story.

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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: psychoanomaly]
    #16262844 - 05/21/12 01:25 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

My main is a barbarian and he does indeed use his weapons, however I did notice this weirdness with the caster classes (witch doctor and sorcerer).  To be fair that's kind of how it was in diablo 2 also...you didn't tend to see a sorceress swinging a sword around.

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Offlinepsychoanomaly
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #16263215 - 05/21/12 03:01 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

I'm playing a Necromancer in D2. I just like how you have the option to use your equipment, even if magic is your primary line of defense... it just adds to the immersion of the game, and the fun of finding loot.

I'm probably going to buy D3 regardless. Dragon's Dogma is getting slightly disappointing reviews, and while I will be buying it within the next couple of months, perhaps Diablo 3 is more appropriate, seeing as I'm playing D2...

I'm sure it's a great game...


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Who looks outside, dreams. Who looks inside, awakes.


Are we but a moment found?
Or a moment lost, a moment unbound?

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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: psychoanomaly]
    #16264107 - 05/21/12 06:10 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

You can do that in D3.  You have the option to put a regular old weapon attack on your bar with any character.  It'll just be very inefficient.

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OfflineDosile Kouki
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Registered: 03/08/10
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #16266484 - 05/22/12 06:46 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

they did it so that the item builds would be fair among classes. in d2 previously sorc's for example had an advantage over a barb in that the barb needed to equip a fat ass weapon to kill things, where as the sorc could just rely on its skills. it is weird but this way its a level playing field among all the classes both build and item wise.


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InvisibleSleepwalker
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: Dosile Kouki]
    #16266521 - 05/22/12 07:05 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

The classes seem very well-balanced and unique so far.  :thumbup:

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OfflineIncentiveAdded
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #16296709 - 05/28/12 05:40 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

level is anything but the playing field.

i roll barbs every chance i get and d3 is no exception.
and while i'm not quite sure what you mean when you say "don't use the equipped weapon" i think i understand enough to say it was similar in d2. only d2 gave you +skills on weapons and armor.
here there aren't really any skillers. skills, and their runes unlock according to some level progression scheme. where we Used to use weapons with ias, +skill, buff, debuff, chance on hit etc . . .now it's mostly been replaced with " here's your skills, they're supposed to be balanced  . .  now go mod em up with +str, dex, vit, +crit dmg, etc. gear" real banal shit.

it's really kind of bland. it's like i said in the other official d3 thread. this isn't really a game, it's a platform for future expansions and content.
cause really, i miss being lvl 80 and re-equipping stuff from my stash and going to chase up runes, running for keys, watching the soj ticker and PRAYING i get dclone.
None of this endgame content is here, just whup-yor-ass inferno mode, and "how long can you survive?!"
^ the name of the name of the game isn't loot seeking anymore( cause they totally fuxored all the q lines and bosses drop shit . it's damage mitigation and survival . . with a chance of loot.


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Make you the world a bit better or more beautiful place, for you have lived in it.
-Edward bok

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OfflineDosile Kouki
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: IncentiveAdded]
    #16298822 - 05/29/12 12:05 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

they have the cow level in d3 as well, you know that right? and diablo II didn't have any anulus/torches/uber tristram. i think they wanted to include the uber levels as " inferno " mode in d3, rather then having them as secret levels.



what level are you currently?? the game gets alot more challenging and enjoyable towards the end


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OfflineIncentiveAdded
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: Dosile Kouki]
    #16319613 - 06/01/12 09:52 PM (11 years, 9 months ago)

i've kinda shelved my 51 barb for the moment.
i'm  >  < close to 52 and i've hit the wall at NM Izzy. i just don't have it in me to go farm for a couple days and hope i get something that'll make the magick flow. drops have been really bad for me lately, so i rolled a monk and she RAN through act 1 like " What?! "  ( i know everyone should be able to do that but it was a nice feeling again LoL)

i know uber trist and d clone weren't in the initial release of d2. and i'm hoping they bring back some kind of "World Events" that make it feel like a world again. the way they have the wps locked off really takes the game out of the sandbox and restricts it to quest running.
and i don't think they're gonna be able to stay with their conviction that charms and runes and things like torches and anni's are gone for good k BAI!
skillers were a HUGE part of d2 endgame and gave you impetus for running hell cows and the pit a1, and pindle and and and ad nauseum.

it's really interesting reading the articles on the d3 site that ppl are writing. " blizz gave you Exactly what you asked for!"  and a host of other 'why d3 is different in such a shitty way' let alone the countless sad-barb is sad things. LOL
it's Really kinda funny watching blizzard nerf the snot out of DH and wiz skills ( prolly the 2 classes they made the whole game around ) and not ONE PEEP has ever been said about ANYTHING in the barb tree.(that i've seen)

i mean really, we're going on what? week 3 ?
i didn't pick up d2 until after LOD had released. how long did that take ?
i know there's going to be some good content to come out of this. my world paradigm doesn't allow or tolerate frivolous usage of such an epic franchise to release paltry and substandard content.
i think blizz has a few aces up their sleeves.


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Make you the world a bit better or more beautiful place, for you have lived in it.
-Edward bok

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OfflineDosile Kouki
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: IncentiveAdded] * 1
    #16320175 - 06/02/12 12:13 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

LOD was years after D2.


but i mean warrior/barb/melee tank sort of characters always have a hard time in these sorts of games. its just a fact of the game. i'm just pissed off that i chose to start a barb rather then a wizard. i'm SLOWLY progressing through a2 hell now, belial's opening minions and first form are giving me a bit of grief.


i'm also kind of pissed because i wasted $1 million on buying a 1350DPS 2h axe.... i thought it was going to be a massive upgrade in damage from my 800 DPS 1h mace. problem is i didn't account for the fact that my 800 dps 1h mace, had 222 str on it, which in effect adds 4.5k DPS, so its 'real' DPS was 1250.... thus me buying the 2hander 1350 dps only increased my dmg output by a few thousand!! with much slower attack speed and less defence/buffs from shield/weapon. :mad: oh well. i guess it's a learning curve. you really have to work out the "real" benefits of your items at top gear level, and make smart purchases.





but yeah izzual is always a cunt of a thing. we struggled with izzual in hell mode. just BARELY managed to beat him. i think they made izzual very difficult on purpose. possibly check your skills and see that you have the best situated "boss killing" skills. also, avoid as much damage of his as you can, and when he spawns minions you have to do your best to get away from izzual and pick off his minions without taking hits from izzual.


blizz wanted to move away from +skill items, because thats not what they wanted the game to be about. people stacking inv's with anni/torch/+skill charms. they want the characters to be diverse and interchangeable. not just 1 single build per 1 char. they want people to acquire different sets of gear for the same character, i.e. MF gear, PVP gear, grinding gear, boss killing gear.


there still is a cow level in d3 as well, you have to make some sort of staff or something. honestly i've heard alot of people getting mad about d3 being different from d2. and ofcourse it is, but its so much better in so many ways. people flame alot about the 6 skills thing, but think about in d2, even with skill points, no char could ever really afford to use more then 3-4-5 maxed skills, otherwise their build would be weak. and you even have the 3 passive skills ontop of that. there is a TONNE of different combinations and strats that can be switched into at anytime, without having to rush your way through the game again to try something new. the game is so much better, and so much more challenging. each difficulty you progress through forces you to improve your gaming and play style, because what you could get away with in the previous difficulty is no longer viable in the next. it gets to the point in inferno where you have to be constantly microing and controlling your hero, and constantly watching and reacting to what the mobs do, otherwise you die. it really is a big challenge. and not to mention that all the gear you need to succeed in the higher levels costs 2 mill a piece, with 11-13 items to equip, you have your work cut out for you.



also as someone said earlier in the thread, the barb isn't 'underpowered' its just that the wiz and dh are ' overpowered '. or possibly not overpowered, but the game is not balanced yet. my main grievance is that wiz/dh can get away with the same as a barb does with not even 1/3rd or 1/4th of the gear. i see wiz/dh's running a3-a4 inferno, and i check their gear. and they have the shittest fucking gear man. it pisses me off. then i compare to my barb, who struggles through a2 inferno, who is literally wearing like 5-6 million worth of gear. its bullshit mate. something needs to be done to fix the balance


if i had've chosen a wizard to start out i would be in a4 inferno farming top gear constantly and have millions by now.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: Dosile Kouki]
    #16320616 - 06/02/12 03:46 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

dude wizards are not at all overpowered. I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.
Yeah we can dish out tons of damage and have good CC and kiting abilities, but are squishy as fuck
I am on Act II Inferno but am taking my time to farm gear, because I pretty much get one or two shot by fucking everything with 32k HP
One or two hits from most of those mobs and I'm dead. We don't really have any self-heal abilities aside from what you can get from gear. There are downsides.

I have been watching Kungen's stream who is a barb in Inferno Hardcore Mode,
and he pretty much solos everything unless he's farming treasure goblins, which is all I'm really doing right now to gear up.
I sit there and watch him tank ridiculous champion packs and solo them all and his health never drops below 75%, constantly regenning to full if dropping at all, and he rarely pots
You can watch a pre-recorded stream here - http://www.twitch.tv/kungentv/b/319631012

I stand at melee with one of those champions or get sucked into a vortex/arcane/molten/waller/jailer/frozen/invulnerable minions/ take your pick rare combo, and solo it usually takes me a good 4-5 deaths to kill those fucking things, if I don't just say fuck it that's an impossible combo and reset the game and hope for something better.



It would be hard as motherfucking balls to get a wizard to inferno in hardcore mode. Kungen had a wizard in hardcore but it died when he tried to show him off. And he was only in Hell.

It's not that hard to get to inferno in the first place. If you see undergeared wizards in Act III or ActIV inferno that doesn't really mean much because you can basically skip Act II if you really want.

But wizards fucking die, kinda a lot. And Act II Inferno is a major fucking gear check.

I want to try Hardcore mode, but I know I sure as fuck won't be a wizard. Probably either barb or monk. Probably barb.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: Shroomism]
    #16320638 - 06/02/12 04:10 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

AND LOL apparently he died last night while alt-tabbing HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



I like his attitude about it though.


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OfflineDosile Kouki
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: Shroomism]
    #16320642 - 06/02/12 04:14 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

wizard isn't supposed to tank hits, the wizard just runs with high move speed and teleports away from all mobs and just kites them. i've seen wizards with 15-20k hp. wizards have that advantage where they can just stack crazy dammage, and just avoid everything and slay them. the barb is forced to stand infront of enemies and engage. even his healing skills are attack based skills, so when he is dying and on low HP, he is forced to actually engage the enemy again to heal. thats the problem. it means that the barb has to split his items between having high defence, resistances and vitality, and then balance this against gather high DPS, strength etc. and the items that combine all of these aspects are VERY expensive. where as a wizard/dh for the most part only really needs to stack DPS and move speed (sure they need some life and AR also but nothign compared to the barb). for this reason, wizards and DH can get away with far worse items and be x10 more functional then a barb. thus its unbalanced and unfair.


i'm not saying wizard doesnt have to work for his kills and still encounters problems, but the disparity between the cost of running a 'good' wizard and a 'good' barb is ridiculously unfair. barb costs easily 2-3x more money to gear then a wizard does



but yeah, i may need to rejig my skills/gear to get more HP and defensive sort of stuff to survive inferno. i'll look into the links you provided.




hahah!! how cut would you be to lose your HC char like that rofl


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: Dosile Kouki]
    #16320652 - 06/02/12 04:28 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

dude all aspects of the game in inferno require gear. Yes I can kite MOST rare packs (not all). But kiting is not always an option.
you usually need to clear a pretty significant amount of space to kite some packs,
well that doesn't work when you first walk into a new area or walk in the front door of a dungeon and are greeted by a pack with nowhere to go
Half the time you try to kite and end up aggroing 5 other packs of mobs and then you are fucked.

and even when you can kite, not all champion combos are kiteable. vortex, fast, teleport, jailer and wallers fuck your day up pretty good when combined with something like invuln mobs/frozen/molten/mortar/arcane.



So yeah kiting is cool and all but it's not always an option.
And yeah I am stuck in Act II inferno too because I am undergeared and I don't have 10 billion gold to spend on way overpriced shit so I have to farm my own gear.
As a wizard you don't JUST need int and vit....  +all resist is super important in Inferno as is life steal (currently) and some HP regen etc and that shit is just as expensive.

But then again I work all the time and haven't had all that much time to invest
so I could probably be in Act III or IV by now if I had been farming a lot but I'm just taking my time.

Face it, all classes have their strengths and weaknesses. I think overall it's pretty fun but definitely some tweaks need to be made.
But barbs with the right itemization and talents are fucking machines. I'm utterly convinced I could not get a wizard to inferno in hardcore solo.
A barb would be doable.


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OfflineDosile Kouki
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Re: Diablo 3 - no weapon attacks? Is this game worth my money? [Re: Shroomism]
    #16320674 - 06/02/12 05:01 AM (11 years, 9 months ago)

i totally agree that each class has their own strengths and weaknesses. the kiting is alot of work too, and wizards tend to have a bit of trouble vs bosses as well. but i think the wizard is clearly the strongest and easiest to succeed with class with the current situation. i guess i'm mostly just mad that i didn't think about the characters and realise that the wizard woudl be the best. i just went barb for the hell of it without thinking about anything else. oh wells.


for a barb, things like mortar, molten, arcane, frost, jailer, vampiric are a problem. vortex can be rough against particularly tough mobs too



also, have you seen "missle dampening" heroes?? they only seem to appear in inferno mode, they look fairly awesome. the mobs have a giant blue forcefield around them that slows projectiles down


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