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 galamb
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Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 10
Last seen: 5 years, 26 days
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 Pressure cooker vs Stovetop Autoclave... HELP! 
#8139092 - 03/12/08 11:08 PM (5 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hey all, long time lurker; Ive enjoyed reading this forum and browsing the archive. The knowledge and innovation of some of the posters here is amazing and has been very informative.
If you haven't guessed from my topic I was wondering how tangible the benefits are from autoclaving over pressure cooking for sterilization. After reading some threads with people blowing their load over getting access to a autoclaves I became curious and motivated to do research online and after finding stove top autoclaves for 300-400 I became even more intrigued. I must be a little naive to the scientific and technical benefits of autoclaves because reading what they do make it sound like they are basically serving the same purpose as traditional PCs-- heating materials to a certain temperature and pressure although maybe just a little higher allowing for quicker times. Maybe the excitement was over simply being able to cook larger quantities but it seemed like substrates/equipment is made more sterile by use of autoclaves.
My question is, do you think something like the All American 1925X Stove-Top Autoclave would provide lower rates of contamination than traditional pressure cooking in jars? Money is no object since, in my mind, equipment that cuts down on waste and hassle will pay its dividends over time and I plan on experimenting with this stuff for the foreseeable future. I searched previous posts and while I learned more about the dry air cycling of autoclaves, I couldn't really find much other info and results.
And some related questions:
- Can jars be cooked in autoclaves or do they require autoclave bags? Can these bags be pressure cooked? The answer intuitively seems yes but I just want to make sure.
- What is the difference between stovetop and scientific grade equipment that requires chemicals and stuff?
Thanks
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81Renaissance
Mad Scientist
Registered: 11/01/06
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 Re: Pressure cooker vs Stovetop Autoclave... HELP! [Re: galamb]
#8139349 - 03/12/08 11:43 PM (5 years, 2 months ago) |
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If you're new to the hobby (which I don't know but it sounds like you might be) I'd say just go for a pressure cooker first. It will serve the purpose you're seeking. I'd compare it to amateur and pro athletes, as an amateur, all the best equipment can't compensate or take the place of good solid technique, for the pro all the little stuff edges you closer to where you want to be but only after you've mastered the basics.
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"Every passing moment is another chance to turn it all around."
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 derx
who run it
Registered: 05/30/03
Posts: 2,459
Loc: dx/dt
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Re: Pressure cooker vs Stovetop Autoclave... HELP! [Re: 81Renaissance]
#8139901 - 03/13/08 01:51 AM (5 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
81Renaissance said:
If you're new to the hobby (which I don't know but it sounds like you might be) I'd say just go for a pressure cooker first. It will serve the purpose you're seeking. I'd compare it to amateur and pro athletes, as an amateur, all the best equipment can't compensate or take the place of good solid technique, for the pro all the little stuff edges you closer to where you want to be but only after you've mastered the basics.
The difference between a pressure cooker and autoclave is that a pressure cooker first heats up and then slowly builds pressure after you cap it. By doing this it takes more time for the internal temperature to reach what it's supposed to. (pv/nr=t)
A pressure cooker ran properly at 15 psi for 2 hours will definetly sterilze your grains with high success. Just make sure you cook it at least 60-90 minutes and you shouldn't have problems.
An autoclave on the otherhand instantly goes to the pressure you set it at and begins the heat cycle. This acheives proper internal temperature more quickly and allows for shorter 'cook' cycles. Throw in 6 bags of grain, shut a door and press start.
These are a lot more pricey but sure are nice.
IMO: you should do yourself right and buy an All American pressure cooker. These things are bullet proof. Make sure to get at least a 15qt, I would reccomend the AA921 which is 21 quarts(150$ on egay used). If you're feeling ballzy, AA makes a 44qt pressure cooker. Thats a lot of spawn!
# Can jars be cooked in autoclaves or do they require autoclave bags? Can these bags be pressure cooked? The answer intuitively seems yes but I just want to make sure.
-yes and autoclavable bags can be used in a pressure cooker.
# What is the difference between stovetop and scientific grade equipment that requires chemicals and stuff?
There isn't any chemicals, just a more efficient system. Imagine if every time a scientist needed sterile media or glassware, he had to get out a pressure cooker! Scientists autoclave a lot of SH!t
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better living through chemistry
OVERGROW the government!!
it's not a war on drugs, it's a war on personal freedom, ok, thats what it is.
Edited by derx (03/13/08 02:43 AM)
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galamb
Stranger
Registered: 03/11/08
Posts: 10
Last seen: 5 years, 26 days
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Re: Pressure cooker vs Stovetop Autoclave... HELP! [Re: derx]
#8140418 - 03/13/08 08:34 AM (5 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thanks for clearing that up Derx.
I already have a pretty big pressure cooker which I guess I will stick to for now since "upgrading" to an autoclave wont provide more sterility. Maybe I'll invest in a flow hood instead.
Thanks again
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JazzCatCF
Teo-nanacatl
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 280
Loc: here today gone tommorow
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Re: Pressure cooker vs Stovetop Autoclave... HELP! [Re: galamb]
#8140590 - 03/13/08 10:51 AM (5 years, 2 months ago) |
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Before you buy make sure you dont have a glass top stove.I use a 921 with 10 quart jars is fine but any bigger could crack the stove top if its glass.Also get a pc with a stopcock it will prevent air seeping in as it cools, no problem with grain,but if you move to supplemented sawdust and such you could get some nastys sneakin in.I dont think the stopcocks any more expensive thean the rocker type either.
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"There is a world beyond ours, a world that is far away, nearby, and invisible. And there it is where God lives, where the dead live, the spirits and the saints, a world where everything has already happened and everything is known. That world talks. It has a language of its own. I report what it says. The sacred mushroom takes me by the hand and brings me to the world where everything is known. It is they, the sacred mushrooms, that speak in a way I can understand. I ask them and they answer me. When I return from the trip that I have taken with them, I tell what they have told me and what they have shown me."
The Mazatec Wise Woman, Maria Sabina (1894-1985)
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Sma
Amateur Mycologist
Registered: 11/18/11
Posts: 214
Last seen: 3 months, 15 days
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Re: Pressure cooker vs Stovetop Autoclave... HELP! [Re: galamb]
#16070664 - 04/10/12 04:45 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
galamb said:
Thanks for clearing that up Derx.
I already have a pretty big pressure cooker which I guess I will stick to for now since "upgrading" to an autoclave wont provide more sterility. Maybe I'll invest in a flow hood instead.
Thanks again
Many people will tell you that a flow hood is the next best investment you can make for mycology besides a pressure cooker. Of course, it's perfectly possible to do great without the use of a flow hood, but it certainly makes things run easier and more smoothly.
I'd definitely go with the flow hood if I were you, considering you've already got the pressure cooker.
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Fungal growth
Lootinint
Registered: 03/21/10
Posts: 3,536
Loc: under a rock in your yard
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Re: Pressure cooker vs Stovetop Autoclave... HELP! [Re: Sma]
#16071135 - 04/10/12 06:22 PM (1 year, 1 month ago) |
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feck ya, get a flowhood. i loves mine.
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worm253
Noob
Registered: 10/20/12
Posts: 2
Loc: Florida
Last seen: 5 months, 2 days
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Re: Pressure cooker vs Stovetop Autoclave... HELP! [Re: 81Renaissance]
#17126485 - 10/29/12 09:20 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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i have had the same problem in deciding which to buy PC or Autoclave, and after reading your post pressure cooker is where i am going to start being a noob and all. I was wondering if anyone has a size to recommend.... i think i will get one of the all american ones, they seem the best. I plan on using quart jars but would like to switch to half gallon jars if i can find a PC Big enough.... the plan is do trays... rye grain method... havn't yet ordered spores or anything... still just doing my research... thanks all
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I just getting started... will be posting questions and looking for good help
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tropicalfrenzy
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Registered: 09/05/12
Posts: 1,177
Loc: Oz 
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Re: Pressure cooker vs Stovetop Autoclave... HELP! [Re: worm253]
#17126610 - 10/29/12 09:40 PM (6 months, 15 days ago) |
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