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 PowerPlants
You Are That
Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 330
Loc: Within For the Win
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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 Schizophrenia Solution 
#15714595 - 01/25/12 03:25 AM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Hey guys, with a little understanding on the matter, I feel the need to shed some Light. I have only experienced it full blown once on shrooms, I actually heard my thoughts audibly outside of me, but I used to have terrible anxiety because of continuous wondering how I was appearing to act to others, how I looked in their eyes. It is my idea(and I don't want to offend others who don't think so) that schizophrenia is self induced, by thinking of what you don't want to think about. Quick, don't think about a blue and yellow Zebra. See what I mean, I believe it is just your mind playing tricks on itself, with thoughts and emotions towards ideas you don't want to think about. The main cause of this is taking ones thoughts and thought patterns to be your identity, and so you end up seeing yourself as an object, and many times more than one. Look at it from this view, whatever you see, you cannot be, because you are seeing it. You are not the seen, you are the seer, not the object, but the subject who perceives the object. This is the main confusion I believe, taking the objects of the mind and emotions to be the identity of the perceiving subject, and then inducing these states of confusion.
Here is my idea of a solution, and based on the above understanding, if you do this for yourself, you will stop feeding these self-perpetuating habits of confusion and they will cease. The following is the method I posted on a topic of depersonalization, which I believe is the same in a lesser degree of intensity. So give this method a thorough shot, along with remembering that whatever you observe you are not, because you are the observer.
Schizophrenia is a misuderstanding of what You really are. In this state, one sees oneself as an object, and judges oneself and causes all sorts of anxiety. This is caused by the subject(You) taking the object(mind) to be oneself. It really seems as if the mind is you, because its always in front of you, and usually repeats itself in the form of habitual thought and action, giving a sense of continuity that one accepts as ones identity. This is False. You are not the mind, and you can have control of it. This control requires a couple things though. Energy; otherwise the past habit's self-perpetuating energy will override the present motivation. And Clear reflection, turning the mind inward to reflect the presence of the observer, which is stillness and control. In regards to energy, one cannot continually release the seminal fluids, this drains one's energy which is the only way to fight back against habit, which presently has a life of its own and continuously perpetuates its existence. And reflection, one must turn the mind within to the subtlest feeling that all others attach to, which is the feeling that I exist, I Am. When one goes deeply into this feeling, one realizes that it isn't fixed, it is formless as water, and will take whatever form you direct it into. That is the solution to any rescuable mental problem in the world, if one practices this for the sake of peace, one will find it. That is all it takes. P.S. I have no problem whatsoever if you wish to copy and paste this for others, or do what you wish with it. Peace
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 the human abstract
malaka the werewolf
 
Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 8,817
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A lot of schizophrenia is because of the individual but external factors are huge too..
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Midnight_Toker
DFTBA
Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 6,914
Loc: Canada 
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I do agree with you and I've tried expanding on this idea before.
Just knowing the mechanisms and root causes behind my own anxiety helps me a lot to remove/reduce it from my life. I think, providing they are willing to entertain and take the idea seriously, this same approach could possibly help some schizophrenics by educating them in the psychology behind their disorder. (Taken from an earlier post I made in PS&P.)
Your post might actually be more relevant in PS&P and get more views/responses.
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quinn
medicine woman
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 4,772
Loc: (usually) above sea level
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while i have sympathy for your idea OP and i do, from my little knowledge it is incorrect.
schizophrenia, from what i understand, is incurable and needs to be managed (with medication etc).
something is actually wrong with the brain and so although what you say may be relevant, if i stuck a needle in your brain, or bashed you with a baseball bat until i induced brain damage, all the enlightenment in the world is not going to fix it.
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if only i
had learnt to count
i might know more
about a larger amount
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Midnight_Toker
DFTBA
Registered: 09/26/10
Posts: 6,914
Loc: Canada
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Re: Schizophrenia Solution [Re: quinn]
#15715577 - 01/25/12 12:29 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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While there is probably some neurological element to schizophrenia, that's not to say that one has no hope of getting better.
It may seem like the schizo thought patterns are impossible to control, but in fact, worrying about the disease will make it worse. It's like the difference between getting down on yourself for something, "I'm a loser. I'll never be able to do this," or motivating yourself. "This will be difficult but I can do it." Which mindset do you think has the better chance of accomplishing their goal?
Just a simple change in thought patterns, while difficult at first, can help solve so many problems. It's not impossible. To use an old saying, "fake it until it becomes real." Stop obsessing on the negatives. "Oh, I haven't heard any voices today! Oh no, when am I going to hear them?" Lo and behold - they show up.
If one trains their brain to not automatically think in negative, intrusive thought patterns which are oh so common in schizophrenics, which I admit is hard, like the OP's example of not thinking of the purple zebra, but not impossible, I guarantee they will see some improvement in their life and disease.
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owls
just let go!
Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 6,415
Loc: dancing 
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Quote:
PowerPlants said:
Hey guys, with a little understanding on the matter, I feel the need to shed some Light. I have only experienced it full blown once on shrooms, I actually heard my thoughts audibly outside of me, but I used to have terrible anxiety because of continuous wondering how I was appearing to act to others, how I looked in their eyes. It is my idea(and I don't want to offend others who don't think so) that schizophrenia is self induced, by thinking of what you don't want to think about. Quick, don't think about a blue and yellow Zebra. See what I mean, I believe it is just your mind playing tricks on itself, with thoughts and emotions towards ideas you don't want to think about. The main cause of this is taking ones thoughts and thought patterns to be your identity, and so you end up seeing yourself as an object, and many times more than one. Look at it from this view, whatever you see, you cannot be, because you are seeing it. You are not the seen, you are the seer, not the object, but the subject who perceives the object. This is the main confusion I believe, taking the objects of the mind and emotions to be the identity of the perceiving subject, and then inducing these states of confusion.
Here is my idea of a solution, and based on the above understanding, if you do this for yourself, you will stop feeding these self-perpetuating habits of confusion and they will cease. The following is the method I posted on a topic of depersonalization, which I believe is the same in a lesser degree of intensity. So give this method a thorough shot, along with remembering that whatever you observe you are not, because you are the observer.
Schizophrenia is a misuderstanding of what You really are. In this state, one sees oneself as an object, and judges oneself and causes all sorts of anxiety. This is caused by the subject(You) taking the object(mind) to be oneself. It really seems as if the mind is you, because its always in front of you, and usually repeats itself in the form of habitual thought and action, giving a sense of continuity that one accepts as ones identity. This is False. You are not the mind, and you can have control of it. This control requires a couple things though. Energy; otherwise the past habit's self-perpetuating energy will override the present motivation. And Clear reflection, turning the mind inward to reflect the presence of the observer, which is stillness and control. In regards to energy, one cannot continually release the seminal fluids, this drains one's energy which is the only way to fight back against habit, which presently has a life of its own and continuously perpetuates its existence. And reflection, one must turn the mind within to the subtlest feeling that all others attach to, which is the feeling that I exist, I Am. When one goes deeply into this feeling, one realizes that it isn't fixed, it is formless as water, and will take whatever form you direct it into. That is the solution to any rescuable mental problem in the world, if one practices this for the sake of peace, one will find it. That is all it takes. P.S. I have no problem whatsoever if you wish to copy and paste this for others, or do what you wish with it. Peace
did you know schizophrenic people are considered to have a special gift in other countries?
look into a raw foods diet man  i think schizophrenic people might tend to be more sensitive to the foods they eat than many people. are you sensitive to gluten? anyways a raw food diet (fruits, veggies, herbs, nuts, seeds, etc.) would be great for anybody though
learning to meditate and doing some type of spiritual work (whatever sounds good to you) would help immensely as well.
infact after i reread your post, you would most definitely benefit greatly from learning to meditate. you are absolutely right, the voices or whatever you heard on mushrooms are just manifestations of your own thoughts
--------------------
i love you ♥
you are beautiful! 
COME TOGETHER, JOIN THE PARTY!!
"what beith a man if he doth not enjoy cannabis?" 
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cateyes
Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 2,754
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that's real interesting theory you have there.. that's along the lines of some people i have a lot of respect for but don't take personally... how cam you compare a schizophrenics symptoms to a wild shroom experience? i'm someone who has recovered and it was a lot more then just finding out who i was ... all mental illness is caused by serious health issues and genes do play a real role in schizoafffective/schizophrenia and psychotic bipolar. between underling health issues and genetic predispositions expressing themselves late in life is the real problem with all mental illness... i'm not sure how you cam claim with certainty that this is truly psychological... yes, there are spiritual issues involved here and these can manifest as all forms of hallucinations and delusions... i'm speaking with authority here powerplants... i lived with it for almost 8 years... schizoaffective bipolar type so ask away... and yes quinn... this can be easily cured i found out... do you know anyone personally that you can make such a statement that it can't be cured? because if you do, I'd like to prove you wrong by curing them... in can have them hooked up with a highly trained MD or ND or PhD...
in a nutshell, besides the spiritual crisis involved i had a serious vitamin d deficiency, mild hypothyroidism, low adrenal function and serious metal toxicity from my old job even though i always took all of the right precautions... i also had severe food allergies that normal allergy tests could never have indentified... i also developed a genetic disorder where my body can't use vitamin b2, b3 and b6 properly... i have to use higher then normal doses of b2 and b3 and i have to permanently use a methylated form of b6 for life... so you see, as much as we'd all like to try and place a strictly spiritual spin on everything it doesn't always work out this way... so please be careful giving such powerful advice out. i know you mean well but a schizophrenic may be facing serious spiritual crisis in the form of delusions and hallucinations and the last thing they need is someone telling them their chakra's are off...
and powerpalnts... i never got back to you regarding the post on mindfulness and choiceless awareness... it turns out choiceless awareness is a meditative break mindfulness practitioners take... not many people do this according to a website on contemplative science that i belong to... it's basically experiencing without thought... pretty heavy stuff to be honest... only those with serious mindfulness background really get into it it seems... one day i intend to attend a retreat on the subject because as much as i'm into mindfulness i just can't pull it together when it comes to choiceless awareness... if you need more information on it i'll be glad to dig it up for you...
Kensho 
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owls
just let go!
Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 6,415
Loc: dancing
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Re: Schizophrenia Solution [Re: cateyes]
#15715712 - 01/25/12 01:08 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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you could come off all those ridiculous vitamin supplements and just eat raw foods and be perfectly fine brah. eat more fruit. fear of anything is bad, especially fear of excess sugar from humans' intended food source
but then again you know everything right
--------------------
i love you ♥
you are beautiful!
COME TOGETHER, JOIN THE PARTY!!
"what beith a man if he doth not enjoy cannabis?"
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cateyes
Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 2,754
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 Re: Schizophrenia Solution [Re: owls]
#15715796 - 01/25/12 01:30 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
owls said:
you could come off all those ridiculous vitamin supplements and just eat raw foods and be perfectly fine brah. eat more fruit. fear of anything is bad, especially fear of excess sugar from humans' intended food source
but then again you know everything right
no owls i don't know everything... i just rely on the facts an MD with close to 50 years of experience passed onto me after genetically testing me...are you saying you place your faith in a banana over genetic science... i've never done anything to trip you over... i've covered your ass and never posted shit i have that your guru said in the past... you bow to Harley... and you have the fucking balls to trip me over... well you know what owls? you've just tipped your hand on the type of internet friend you are... cool, now i understand where we stand... and this is all because i include fat in my diet based on my doctors instruction... well did you ever think if he thought i should be eating 30 fucking bananas a day he'd have shared this info with me?
fucking banana jerk off you've turned out to be...  you and your fucking Harley banana... ride that Harley banana deep into your early grave...
dude, i don't talk out of my ass as you always do... if i say something it's based on either my experience or deep reading... but you rely on Utube videos from Harley!!! you have really pissed me off... it's little wonder why people consider you a flake...
Kensho
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PowerPlants
You Are That
Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 330
Loc: Within For the Win
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Schizophrenia Solution [Re: owls]
#15715801 - 01/25/12 01:32 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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---how cam you compare a schizophrenics symptoms to a wild shroom experience?
Wasn't trying to do that, if I have any experience with "schiz" it was in seeing myself as an object in the mind, and judging the mind as myself, you see I was the judge and the one being judged. Then I would be fearful of these thought patterns and induce them myself by fearing them and trying to not think about them. For those who can accept it I have posted this, I am not saying come off your medication and other things, but give being a subject alone a try again, turn the mind within beyond the experiences to the experiencer. I agree that nutritional and water inneffeciency will give the body-mind problems in relation to clarity, so eat well and drink a lot of water.
---infact after i reread your post, you would most definitely benefit greatly from learning to meditate. you are absolutely right, the voices or whatever you heard on mushrooms are just manifestations of your own thoughts.
Yes I am free from worrying and seeing myself as an object now, and I agree that the shrooms just magnified my misunderstanding, and the voices were self-induced by continuous fear and giving them attention. I am not undermining anyones condition here, but I have a little experience with delusion, and I know that fighting darkness does not do anything, one must light the candle of Pure Awareness and then the darkness will disappear. This does require energy and reflection, so if you are continually draining your seminal fluids you will not have the necessary energy to overcome the past process of energy continually running through the same grooves and patterns in the brain. Peace
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cateyes
Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 2,754
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Quote:
PowerPlants said:
---how cam you compare a schizophrenics symptoms to a wild shroom experience?
Wasn't trying to do that, if I have any experience with "schiz" it was in seeing myself as an object in the mind, and judging the mind as myself, you see I was the judge and the one being judged. Then I would be fearful of these thought patterns and induce them myself by fearing them and trying to not think about them. For those who can accept it I have posted this, I am not saying come off your medication and other things, but give being a subject alone a try again, turn the mind within beyond the experiences to the experiencer. I agree that nutritional and water inneffeciency will give the body-mind problems in relation to clarity, so eat well and drink a lot of water.
---infact after i reread your post, you would most definitely benefit greatly from learning to meditate. you are absolutely right, the voices or whatever you heard on mushrooms are just manifestations of your own thoughts.
Yes I am free from worrying and seeing myself as an object now, and I agree that the shrooms just magnified my misunderstanding, and the voices were self-induced by continuous fear and giving them attention. I am not undermining anyones condition here, but I have a little experience with delusion, and I know that fighting darkness does not do anything, one must light the candle of Pure Awareness and then the darkness will disappear. This does require energy and reflection, so if you are continually draining your seminal fluids you will not have the necessary energy to overcome the past process of energy continually running through the same grooves and patterns in the brain. Peace
powerplants... do you read? i'm off all meds and i do meditate everyday throughout the day due to mindfulness... i just got done explaining that to you? as a matter of fact i answered question you had regarding an old thread in the spiritual forum regarding "choiceless awareness"... do you recall the conversation? i sure as hell do.. it was less then a month ago... you can't remember back that far? 
Kensho
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PowerPlants
You Are That
Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 330
Loc: Within For the Win
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Schizophrenia Solution [Re: cateyes]
#15715867 - 01/25/12 01:45 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Brother what's with the negativity? My last post was directed to all the schizophrenics who read this. To those who can accept it, ok. I know you say you meditate, great! There are many types of meditation though, and some will be useless in recovering from this subject-object misunderstanding. When I say turn the mind within, I don't mean watch your thoughts without obsessing over them, that can be difficult, I mean turn your mental-feeling within the center of your chest where thoughts are not, and you will find this natural peace and control I speak of. If it isn't for you that is ok, let the others try it and see if it rings true.
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cateyes
Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 2,754
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Quote:
PowerPlants said:
Brother what's with the negativity? My last post was directed to all the schizophrenics who read this. To those who can accept it, ok. I know you say you meditate, great! There are many types of meditation though, and some will be useless in recovering from this subject-object misunderstanding. When I say turn the mind within, I don't mean watch your thoughts without obsessing over them, that can be difficult, I mean turn your mental-feeling within the center of your chest where thoughts are not, and you will find this natural peace and control I speak of. If it isn't for you that is ok, let the others try it and see if it rings true.
your post was directed towards ME... you said after rereading your post i think meditation would be a good idea for you? where are you getting off with me being hostile? all i said was don't you recall the conversation we got into regarding "choiceless awareness"? i'm into focusing in on the heart... i know where my real power comes from. you said after rereading your post and you responded to me... these are your words not mine man... 
Kensho
Edited by cateyes (01/25/12 02:05 PM)
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PowerPlants
You Are That
Registered: 11/29/11
Posts: 330
Loc: Within For the Win
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
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Re: Schizophrenia Solution [Re: cateyes]
#15715987 - 01/25/12 02:12 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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To clear up any misunderstanding, here is my response to your first post.
---how cam you compare a schizophrenics symptoms to a wild shroom experience?
Wasn't trying to do that, if I have any experience with "schiz" it was in seeing myself as an object in the mind, and judging the mind as myself, you see I was the judge and the one being judged. Then I would be fearful of these thought patterns and induce them myself by fearing them and trying to not think about them. For those who can accept it I have posted this, I am not saying come off your medication and other things, but give being a subject alone a try again, turn the mind within beyond the experiences to the experiencer. I agree that nutritional and water inneffeciency will give the body-mind problems in relation to clarity, so eat well and drink a lot of water.
This was not directed only at you, but towards other readers as well. The key is to turn the mind within, bringing the I Am feeling away from objective thoughts and back towards subjective feeling.
I see owls post in response to mine which I think you are speaking of.
---infact after i reread your post, you would most definitely benefit greatly from learning to meditate. you are absolutely right, the voices or whatever you heard on mushrooms are just manifestations of your own thoughts.
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owls
just let go!
Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 6,415
Loc: dancing
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Quote:
cateyes said:
Quote:
owls said:
you could come off all those ridiculous vitamin supplements and just eat raw foods and be perfectly fine brah. eat more fruit. fear of anything is bad, especially fear of excess sugar from humans' intended food source
but then again you know everything right
no owls i don't know everything... i just rely on the facts an MD with close to 50 years of experience passed onto me after genetically testing me...are you saying you place your faith in a banana over genetic science... i've never done anything to trip you over... i've covered your ass and never posted shit i have that your guru said in the past... you bow to Harley... and you have the fucking balls to trip me over... well you know what owls? you've just tipped your hand on the type of internet friend you are... cool, now i understand where we stand... and this is all because i include fat in my diet based on my doctors instruction... well did you ever think if he thought i should be eating 30 fucking bananas a day he'd have shared this info with me?
fucking banana jerk off you've turned out to be... you and your fucking Harley banana... ride that Harley banana deep into your early grave...
dude, i don't talk out of my ass as you always do... if i say something it's based on either my experience or deep reading... but you rely on Utube videos from Harley!!! you have really pissed me off... it's little wonder why people consider you a flake...
Kensho
didn't mean to piss you off bro. don't know why you take things like that  i just thought your post was a little bit eccentric and could have really scared OP if he was in a bad place
everything i said to you is because you eat fat? no offense man but you are extremely delusional. i don't mean to offend but i also try to get people to think. if you can't handle having your pride hurt a little how much is that going to limit you in life
Harley is a really great guy and all and has a lot of great knowledge to share but he's definitely not my guru. Robert Morse is, along with other people 
you kind of act like this is high school or something and we're supposed to have "allies" and watch each others backs no matter what, even if somebody is acting in a way we don't approve of. i'd rather just say what i mean and mean what i say dude. don't know why you have to be like "fuck you man!" and take everything so personally
Quote:
PowerPlants said:
Yes I am free from worrying and seeing myself as an object now, and I agree that the shrooms just magnified my misunderstanding, and the voices were self-induced by continuous fear and giving them attention. I am not undermining anyones condition here, but I have a little experience with delusion, and I know that fighting darkness does not do anything, one must light the candle of Pure Awareness and then the darkness will disappear. This does require energy and reflection, so if you are continually draining your seminal fluids you will not have the necessary energy to overcome the past process of energy continually running through the same grooves and patterns in the brain. Peace
YES! you are spot on  
congratulations bro, i am very happy to hear you are doing well. i too am very experienced with delusions and have come to the same realization that continually draining your seminal fluids will literally destroy your health, on every level. if you ever want to chat don't hesitate to send me a private message
and don't worry about cateyes, i'm not sure why but he tends to get very defensive if what he thinks he knows is threatened in any way and tends to take offense to small things
--------------------
i love you ♥
you are beautiful!
COME TOGETHER, JOIN THE PARTY!!
"what beith a man if he doth not enjoy cannabis?"
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cateyes
Registered: 12/16/03
Posts: 2,754
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Re: Schizophrenia Solution [Re: owls]
#15716362 - 01/25/12 04:00 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
Quote:
owls said:
didn't mean to piss you off bro. don't know why you take things like that i just thought your post was a little bit eccentric and could have really scared OP if he was in a bad place
everything i said to you is because you eat fat? no offense man but you are extremely delusional. i don't mean to offend but i also try to get people to think. if you can't handle having your pride hurt a little how much is that going to limit you in life
Harley is a really great guy and all and has a lot of great knowledge to share but he's definitely not my guru. Robert Morse is, along with other people
you kind of act like this is high school or something and we're supposed to have "allies" and watch each others backs no matter what, even if somebody is acting in a way we don't approve of. i'd rather just say what i mean and mean what i say dude. don't know why you have to be like "fuck you man!" and take everything so personally
you're really funny owls... in the last thread your like cateyes are fat? and you said it because of the post i made in that thread based on the percentage of fat i said i eat a day, so don't even try to trivialize it... i explained to you i eat fat based on instructions from my doctor... i'm going to trust my MD over a 30 banana ad day diet... and then in this thread i clearly say i have been genetically tested for a very well known condition that exists when you hallucinate requiring me to rely on much higher doses of b2 and b3 and a methylated form of b6 and you tell me to eat raw... like i don't eat raw as it is. you are the only person i've ever been defensive with so don't hand me this shit... and it wouldn't have bothered me if i hadn't gone to bat for you like how many fucking times? dealing with a PhD biochemist or whatever he was after he was pissing all over your 30 banana diet... you are hilarious... and i did misunderstand powerplants and for that i do apologize... i didn't realize he was addressing both of us in one post... forgive me powerplants, but even he forgot a conversation we ahd not too long ago where i just now provided him =with the answer he wanted... but you owls have clearly been on a bender since i gave up supporting eating 30 bananas when i looked at the nutritional value of a banana and saw it contained very little of a lot of things... forget about everything else and lets just focus on consuming huge amounts of potassium and no sodium... this sounds real smart... so go right ahead and dig in to it... but keep in mind, i have to use these supplements, it's that or the meds and if you really had experience you'd be keeping your know it all trap shut... you had drug induced psychosis from meth or whatever the fuck tripped you over... big difference pal... U R clueless with real psychosis... and like you spread good information here? all you talk is banana... banana this banana that... chill the fuck out dude... we get it, you adore bananas. and you're constantly posting Harley vids... you would think if you were really into Dr Morse you'd be posting his vids, but no!!! we have the pleasure of watching Harley... name the last 5 vids you've posted. bow down to the one you serve...
Kensho
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owls
just let go!
Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 6,415
Loc: dancing
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Quote:
Midnight_Toker said:
I do agree with you and I've tried expanding on this idea before.
Just knowing the mechanisms and root causes behind my own anxiety helps me a lot to remove/reduce it from my life. I think, providing they are willing to entertain and take the idea seriously, this same approach could possibly help some schizophrenics by educating them in the psychology behind their disorder. (Taken from an earlier post I made in PS&P.)
Your post might actually be more relevant in PS&P and get more views/responses.
hey man i just wanted to say that was a great post and you are very smart and have a lot of potential
i tend to just skim threads a lot in anticipation of lots of BS and oftentimes don't stop to read posts
--------------------
i love you ♥
you are beautiful!
COME TOGETHER, JOIN THE PARTY!!
"what beith a man if he doth not enjoy cannabis?"
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quinn
medicine woman
Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 4,772
Loc: (usually) above sea level
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Re: Schizophrenia Solution [Re: owls]
#15718351 - 01/25/12 11:00 PM (1 year, 3 months ago) |
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 you guys crack me up.
'fucking banana jerk off' 
perhaps owls'  obsession has something to do with his  obsession... 
 
--------------------
if only i
had learnt to count
i might know more
about a larger amount
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