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OfflineSOUTHERN
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water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum.
    #15370824 - 11/14/11 07:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

i am wanting to make a electic pasterizer for my straw.. i think it would be alot more convient to do it in my basement than have to do it out in the cold soon.. i see alotta u guys have them.. everyone says get the ariston element / thermostat..how do they mount to the barrel.. the plastic barells i have have like 2 holes one is a little smaller range from like 1 5/8 to like 2 inchs that just a guess. how r all of ya'll mounting the element in the bucket? also to is the anode necessary??

thanks
southern

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Invisibleife
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: SOUTHERN]
    #15373359 - 11/15/11 08:32 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SOUTHERN said:
i am wanting to make a electic pasterizer for my straw.. i think it would be alot more convient to do it in my basement than have to do it out in the cold soon.. i see alotta u guys have them.. everyone says get the ariston element / thermostat..how do they mount to the barrel.. the plastic barells i have have like 2 holes one is a little smaller range from like 1 5/8 to like 2 inchs that just a guess. how r all of ya'll mounting the element in the bucket? also to is the anode necessary??

thanks
southern




I used whatever they had at home depot. It was a screw in designed for metal socket in a water heater of course. 120V. The first one was a longer element. The 2nd a shorter one. I just used a drill bit slightly smaller than the screw in part, then used the bit to slowly widen it out. So that I was able to screw the thing into the hard plastic barrel. You will want to do a lot of careful drilling and often testing to make sure you can get a good tight fit. Use the rubber washer and make a nice tight fit then silicone every crevice and thread on both sides very well. Don't skimp on silicone. Fill with water to test your seal after letting silicone sit over night the recomended hours. Make sure when you test your seal a leak won't be a problem for you. Once you know your seal will hold regular water, drain. You did put in a drain right? Hook up the rest of your electronics, fill with water and test. Don't put silicone on the element part though. I am sure you don't want to melt the silicone. But the metal base should be well covered so that you have a good seal.  I attached the thermostat above the element with gorilla tape. Which works for now. This is how I did it.. which isn't the only way of course.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: ife]
    #15373416 - 11/15/11 08:55 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I think most water heater elements are threaded for 1 1/2" NPT.  One could purchase a coupling at a hardware store and cut the end off, screwing the element into the part which was cut off to serve as a 'nut' on the back side for mechanical support.  This might be ghetto, but better than having the element slip out and flood your floor and your feet with hot water.
RR


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OfflineSOUTHERN
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #15373427 - 11/15/11 09:00 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

that what i was thinking rr. somekinda nut on the inside of the barrel.. maybe some gasket material.. i'm not gonna put a drain in it.. i will just siphon the water out or pour it out manualy.. thanks guys i'll be going to the hardware soon

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Invisibleife
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #15373504 - 11/15/11 09:29 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I think most water heater elements are threaded for 1 1/2" NPT.  One could purchase a coupling at a hardware store and cut the end off, screwing the element into the part which was cut off to serve as a 'nut' on the back side for mechanical support.  This might be ghetto, but better than having the element slip out and flood your floor and your feet with hot water.
RR




I had originally wanted to do this but the thread wasn't really long enough. Which was why I went with screwing it into the plastic. It may take a bit to get the maximum angle on a barrel but its a fairly tight fit. You will want to make sure you have a very solid wire meshing structure on the inside that will prevent anything from moving the element for safety. I use bricks encased in wire mesh that is encased in more sturdy wire mesh. Covered with a circle grill grate. Unless you know of some elements with longer threads?

The drain comment was my attempt at dry humor. I siphon it too, but also have a drain. :smile:

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OfflineSOUTHERN
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: ife]
    #15373910 - 11/15/11 11:20 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

just got back from the hardware store.. wish me luck.. i'm in the basement as we speak trying to bring this thing to life.. i just finished making 3 quarts of lc,with some blue and pearl oysters.. i'm gonna try to clean up my lionsmain culture when i'm done.. the culture has been in a grain jar in a mini fridge for about 2 years... i'm really wanting to get this mushrrom to grow .. i need some variety ..


i'll let ya'll know how it works.. i have a nut that will fit the element i am gonna try and see what happens

thanks
southern

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OfflineSOUTHERN
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: SOUTHERN]
    #15374626 - 11/15/11 02:17 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

DONE.. RR  the threads on the element r like 1 3/16 or something..u do use a 1.5 socket to remove the element and to tighten it.. i used a 1.5 paddle bit and a 1 1/8 paddle bit.. the plastic barrel is about .25 inches thick so what i did was drilled like 1/8 with the 1.5 paddle bit then i drilled the rest with the  with the 1 1/8 paddle .. this allowed a area for the washer on the element to fit in snug, and also made so the threads were long enough to get a nut on the inside of the barrel. then on the inside i made a gasket and found a nut that fit it good .. i hooked this all up with out silicone just to see if it would leak.. it leaked so little, but to insure a leak proof fit, i used the rv silicone like we all use on our lc lids.. i'm letting it dry but i'm pretty sure i'm good to go..

the thermostat that i bought only goes to like 150 ..is this what you all r using?... can i not just hook the element straight to a plug without thermostat or do u have to have this too?

thanks
southern

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: SOUTHERN]
    #15375076 - 11/15/11 05:37 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I'd use a thermostat or you have to unplug and plug back in under load to maintain temp, and that's going to destroy the plug and receptacle due to arcing.

You don't want it going over 150F anyway.
RR


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Invisiblefishy1
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #15375457 - 11/15/11 06:31 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Are these barrels LDPE? If so, have they come out with a sealant yet that will stick to it?
Its been a while since I have worked with it...

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OfflineSOUTHERN
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: fishy1]
    #15375540 - 11/15/11 06:41 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

thanks rr.. sweet i'll hook it all up tomorrow and hopefully it will be leak proof..

fishy. i don't know what its made out of. its a clear barrel. and i'm pretty sure it can handle the temps.. i hope what i did works doesn't have to stick just be a gasket that makes it water proof..

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Invisibleife
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: SOUTHERN]
    #15375985 - 11/15/11 07:49 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

got pics?

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OfflineSOUTHERN
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: ife]
    #15376265 - 11/15/11 08:27 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

n0t yet but im sure there will be some coming if things go as planned..
i might start pressure cooking some wheat tomorrow.. maybe a run tomorrow and thursday and friday.. by saturday my lc should be good to go.. its all coming back to me..

ill try to get some picks up tomorrow. got alota work around the house lately just moving in.. when i'm not at work i'm working here.


southern

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Invisibleife
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: SOUTHERN]
    #15377909 - 11/16/11 05:52 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

cool. Moving in a new place is always an adventure. I would be interested in pics of what we was talking about. Especially since it seems you found an element that was long enough to have a nut put on the inside of the barrel. But it sounds like your barrel might not be the same as mine too? Sounds like you probably have the same thermostat that I do. The rectangle one? Mine is for single element setups though. And I have tried with and without the thermostat, so it is possible. I had originally just tested it out without the thermostat. Making sure it all held water and heat and all that. But like RR was saying you will want to make it a perma attachment. You will want to also make sure your straw is not touching the element and that the heater is evenly heating the water from top to bottom and the inside your substrate. I have seen the water temp go above 160 towards the top. So the thermostat works but keep in mind the top and bottom and middle can all be different temps. The thermostat is a help but it won't nessisarily save your batch from uneven and over heating in areas without proper testing and knowing what is going on inside your barrel. That being said I haven't tested the thermostat on lower than 150F yet for maximum heating and all that. But I don't really want it as a last resort safety switch. I use a turkey thermometer on the top as well.

fishy1 - Mine are food grade. And silicone II from GE that they sell at home depot and lowes works very well for me. I haven't needed to use the high heat stuff yet with anything. And I have original jar lids from "way back" that still work like new. Even after being accidentally baked in the oven for a short period of time. :ooo:

Edited by ife (11/16/11 06:34 AM)

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OfflineBigPharma
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: SOUTHERN]
    #15378359 - 11/16/11 08:55 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

sounds pretty similar to the tub I built.  If you used a white-plastic 55 gallon drum, those are HDPE.  I just bought some water-heater insulation to wrap the drum with; its a bit of an energy-drain to keep that much material that warm in an uninsulated drum.



I since made some changes to the wiring of the drum, and installed the thermostat in the proper place, but you otherwise get the idea.


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Invisiblefishy1
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: BigPharma]
    #15378395 - 11/16/11 09:07 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

He said its CLEAR plactic...
wonder what it is.

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: fishy1]
    #15378630 - 11/16/11 10:21 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

I wonder why guys don't get used food grade steel drums?  I can get them all day for $25 each.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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Invisiblefishy1
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #15378771 - 11/16/11 10:57 AM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
I wonder why guys don't get used food grade steel drums?  I can get them all day for $25 each.
RR



Thats what I was thinking. I could easily weld in bungs for the element(s) and drain. Seems so much more "permanent" and no fear of leaks.

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InvisibleJavadog
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #15379068 - 11/16/11 12:19 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

"the top and bottom and middle can all be different temps"

I am not trained in thermodynamics, but I think that there may be
fundamental things wrong about this statement.  Long story short,
I believe that no area in a liquid will achieve a temp without it
all reaching that point (or very nearly). 

Point to consider: There is no way that the water in the top of
the drum and the bottom will vary more than a few degrees.

I posit this for my own edification.  Fire away!  ;0)

BTW, I also have a food grade 50 gallon plastic drum, but intend
to buy a steel one also, as I intend to use the plastic version
for a fog barrel.

Take care,

JD


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Invisibleife
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #15379273 - 11/16/11 01:14 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

fishy1 - yea that's what I am afraid of. I wouldn't trust those with this type of setup. But I could be wrong. Just seems way to thin and flimsy especially when water is in those tubs. Add electricity to the mix.... yikes. But they work well for like RR has in his videos where you boil water and add it to the tub. But no electricity. And then there will be a lot of stress on the joint where the element is attached from the movement of the tub everytime water is put in and taken out and substrate is added in. I wouldn't trust the seal to hold. If it is a big wally world clear plastic tub or any of those safelite type tubs. BigPharma had problems with a firmer plastic trash barrel for this if I remember right. oh and I don't have the experience or equipment to weld. To get my silicone off I have to pry it off with a sharp screw driver. I dunno works well for me so far.

RR - I could be wrong but don't those steel barrels rust easy and are they not a lot heavier than the plastic ones? I haven't done much metal work in that capacity. They would be noisier to move around too and I live in close quarters so if i work late I don't want to potentially make extra noise. And if a short happened and touched the barrel and then if I touched the barrel. Don't wanna think about it. I don't think I have to worry about that with plastic. I picked up my used food grade plastic barrels for $10 each. Craigslist. But cash wasn't the deciding factor for me. I dunno I just like plastic I guess. Although I never ruled out metal entirely. It just didn't seem to fit for me right now.

JavaDog - yea i dunno on that but I've seen plenty of people on the boards talk about it. And suggesting to always measure from the inside of your substrate and there being a difference enough of a few degrees near the heated part of a bigger gallon barrel rig than say a pot. I know I can put my hand on various parts of the barrel as it is heating up and heated up and there will be definite noticeable temp variations too. And using an electric candy thermometer that changes temp quickly there are definate temp differences in various areas between the sides and the middle, inside the sub and just on the top. I think the reason is the substrate acts as a kind of insulation and hiway system for water currents of various degrees.

And I dunno its all a big experiment for me right now.

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Invisiblesolarity
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Re: water heater element for 55 gal plastic drum. [Re: Javadog]
    #15379352 - 11/16/11 01:30 PM (12 years, 4 months ago)

Actually water is not a very good conductor of heat check it here, and it takes more energy than almost any other common material to heat it or cool it.

You certainly can have differing levels of temperature in a liquid or a tank, it's called stratification - my 500l heat store tank is presently 75c at the top and 26c at the bottom - but the water generally has to be still and settles into thermal layers.

Water normally heats up "evenly" because hot water rises from the element and is replaced by cooler water from below - a process commonly known as convection - so if you heat a tank full of hot water and measure the outside and the centre at the same level they will likely be similar temperatures as the water is being mixed by convection. However Throw in a bunch of tightly packed straw and you effectively remove that convection/mixing movement and you are reliant on the lousy conduction of water to heat the middle of your straw - which is why you can heat straw in a water bath and have 80C water at the tank skin and 15C in the centre of the straw. - The simple (and I would think much more efficient) solution is to heat the water first then immerse the straw.

...erm what was the question again :blush:


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