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 markst
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 The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe 
#15170340 - 10/03/11 04:50 AM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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Hey Shroomery
I'm an extremely skeptical person when it comes to the claims of UFO sightings. This is because I have not come across one single source of UFO sighting that has ever been able to deter my skepticism, which includes video and eye witness reports. I feel that these reports are easily fragmented with deception and the psychological aspect that people want to believe there is another kind out there visiting them.
The only UFO report that has been able to convince me otherwise is a sighting that took place in 1994 in a remote area in Zimbabwe called Ruwa. The UFO was witnessed by 62 children who all claimed to have seen 3 objects hovering above the school in the sky, one of the objects landed near the school playground and to the shock of the children "a little man appeared above the craft".
From observing this video and the children's reports, this is easily the most compelling evidence that there are creature of another kind who have visited Earth in the past. I find incredibly hard to believe that these children would be able to pull off an elaborate prank such as this. Another aspect to this story is that most of these children at this age would not be exposed to the idea of extra terrestrials from the media and certainly most of them would not have any clue of psychic or telepathic capabilities, which most of them claimed to have experienced from observing the extra terrestrial.
This is by far the most compelling evidence to suggest that there are extra terrestrials.
The only shame is that this incident will not garner much media attention because it did not take place in the US of A and I will not be surprised if most will be quick to disregard it for that particular reason.
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pachoo
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15170427 - 10/03/11 05:35 AM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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THE BAD NEWS: There is no key to the universe.
THE GOOD NEWS: It was never locked.
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pachoo
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: pachoo]
#15170429 - 10/03/11 05:36 AM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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Same topic but it has another video in it about Jerusalem.
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THE BAD NEWS: There is no key to the universe.
THE GOOD NEWS: It was never locked.
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markst
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: pachoo]
#15170477 - 10/03/11 05:55 AM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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I grew up in Zimbabwe and attended a school that was fairly close by to Ariel(the one visited by the UFO). The truth of the matter is most Zimbabweans do not concern themselves with the supernatural of this nature due to the conservative and Christian upbringing we were brought up with.
Another concern of mine is that the children seemed generally frightened by this experience and if it was an elaborate prank pulled off by the older kids(as some of skeptics argue) I'm sure they wouldn't be able tell the story consistently. Keep in mind that most principles in Zimbabwe(including the one I had at my school)are fairly simple minded and due to the strict discipline we had in Zim, most principles and teachers do not put up with kids screwing around and bullshitting. Kids who do exhibit this behavior are punished by being wacked with a cricket bat. Kids don't dare to tell lies in school in Zim.
Also lastly every single one those kids are in their 20's and from what I have heard from other Zimbo's is that they still claim to have seen what they saw.
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pachoo
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15170515 - 10/03/11 06:08 AM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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wowza.
oh. i was going to say... did you think i thought it was nuts? because other people posted it? because i don't.
it freaks me out. alot....
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THE BAD NEWS: There is no key to the universe.
THE GOOD NEWS: It was never locked.
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markst
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: pachoo]
#15170583 - 10/03/11 06:27 AM (7 months, 20 days ago) |
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Well at the time when it happened I only seem to remember my older brother discussing it and since then I had never really been bothered to follow it up and had forgotten about it. I had not been aware that there was a documentary made about it and that it had garnered some international press as well. I only discovered the documentary last night.
I will try get hold of one of the kids in the film and ask further questions. In fact if any of you have any questions regarding the this incident, I will be able to forward it through to one of the kids (they would be in their mid 20's now). I seem to recall my older brother being friends with one of them and I'm sure it will be easy as pie to hit them up on facebook.
It is extremely bizarre that this happened in Ruwa and there have been other incidents of this nature recorded in Zim, around that particular area. Like I said before, it is highly unlikely these kids are lying and the most interesting fact is the kids claiming to have had telepathic communication with the creature.
One thing is for 100% sure, we were never taught about the destructive behavior of our species on this planet at school, especially at junior school! For these youngsters to claim that the humanity's technology is out of control is possibly the most bizarre part of this conspiracy.
Another student, known only by the pseudonym “Elsa,” claimed that she felt horrible for the rest of the day, unable to shake the horrific images that had been implanted in her brain by the beings. She believed that they wanted to convey to the human race a grave warning to stop destroying the planet or face the consequences:
“The world is going to end, maybe because we don’t look after our planet or the air. Like all the trees will go down and there will be no air. People will be dying. Those thoughts came from the man — the man’s eyes.”
Elsa’s claimed that the overwhelming sensation she had while staring at the alien’s horrific visage was: “We are doing harm to the Earth.” Another student also indicated that these extra-terrestrials seemed to feel that human technology was quickly growing out of control and suggested: “something is going to happen… and that we need to be careful of our technology.”
Send me your questions Shroomery, I will be sure to get them answered by at least one of kids involved in the incident.
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markst
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15170764 - 10/03/11 07:42 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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http://experiencers.com/media/mack_ruwaexcerpt.mp3
Apparently they are making a documentary on this case at the moment. I know this incident didn't occur in the US but please guys take some interest in paranormal activity outside of your country. In my opinion this actually gives more credence to the UFO case considering it happened in a remote area where kids are not usually exposed to this sort of thing.
http://johnemackinstitute.org/2008/01/encounter-in-ruwa-the-ariel-school-ufo-sighting-documentary-film-project/
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markst
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15170807 - 10/03/11 07:51 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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American film maker Randall Nickerson is currently visiting southern Africa to make a documentary that follows up an incident that happened at the Ariel School in Ruwa, Zimbabwe, in 1994, when 62 children aged between eight and 12 reported seeing a UFO and “strange beings” during their morning break.
Those children are now young adults scattered around the globe. Nickerson is tracking them down and interviewing them about the experience. “Their stories have not changed at all,” he says. “Not what you would expect if they had made it all up.”
So what exactly happened on that day in 1994 at the school in Ruwa just east of Harare? “It was morning break and they were out in the school yard playing,” says Nickerson. “They saw one main silver craft that had four others around it,” says Nickerson. “It came down on a hill beyond the school yard that was out of bounds. The boundary was the edge of the school yard, then it was bush and the hill.
“They ran to the edge of the school yard to see what this thing was. They saw this small creature walk around on top of the craft while another came down to check out the children. He was all in black, with a very tight suit. The children said he had big eyes ‘like rugby balls’.
“The children had direct eye contact with this creature. There seems to have been some kind of communication with the children about the state of the world — what we are doing to the planet, the destruction we are causing, although not all the children got this message. Some of the children were traumatised, others were excited. The young children were the most traumatised as they were at the front of the group.
“They all went screaming back to the teachers. The teachers didn’t believe them at first. But then they went home and told their parents who came to the school and wanted to know what had happened.”
Soon afterwards the children were asked to draw pictures of what they had seen. “They did this separately. The drawings were all the same.”
A BBC television crew were first on the scene to follow it up. In November 1994, Harvard professor of psychiatry John E. Mack visited the school and filmed interviews with the children. He was assisted by South African producer Nicky Carter who had already made a short documentary on the subject for the SABC. “I had a half-brother at the school,” she says. “He was off sick on the day it happened, but the children told him all about it and he contacted me.”
Carter has no doubt the children were telling the truth. “When they were interviewed by Mack with all his professional skills it was clear they were telling the truth — their voice tone, their body language. They were so consistent, they told their stories with such conviction. And they spoke about it in their own language. One child recalled being told by the alien that we should not be so ‘techknowledged’ — why make up something like that?”
Mack, a Pulitzer prize winner for his biography of T. E. Lawrence (Lawrence of Arabia) titled A Prince of Our Disorder, was a highly respected psychiatrist. However, when he began researching the phenomenon of reported alien abductions, his fellow academics looked askance. In 1994, when his book Abduction appeared, a committee was appointed to review Mack’s clinical care and investigation of the people who had shared their alien encounters with him. According to the BBC, “It was the first time in Harvard’s history that a tenured professor was subjected to such an investigation.”
After 14 months of inquiry, Harvard issued a statement stating that the dean had “reaffirmed Dr Mack’s academic freedom to study what he wishes and to state his opinions without impediment”.
In 2004, Mack was killed by a drunk driver while he was visiting London to lecture at a T. E. Lawrence conference.
Mack was guarded in his interpretation of the abduction phenomenon. To one interviewer who said that Mack seemed “inclined to take these [abduction] reports at face value”, Mack replied saying: “Face value I wouldn’t say. I take them seriously. I don’t have a way to account for them.”
In a BBC interview he said: “I would never say, yes, there are aliens taking people. [But] I would say there is a compelling powerful phenomenon here that I can’t account for in any other way. Yet I can’t know what it is but it seems to me that it invites a deeper, further inquiry.”
Nickerson sees himself as taking that inquiry further after being commissioned by the John E. Mack Institute, along with producer Dominique Callimanopulos, to make a documentary incorporating the interview footage shot in 1994 with follow-up material shot in the present.
“I want to present the story objectively,” says Nickerson. “To show the original raw material. That’s what initially interested me about this case. These children all describing seeing the same thing. You can tell they are not lying. But having seen this footage I thought: I need to go to this place, to talk to people, I need to investigate it for myself. Did this really happen?
“The subject has to be approached as scientifically as possible,” he says. “There are questions that we need to ask. It’s a case of presenting the evidence just like court.”
Despite this rigorous approach, isn’t there a danger he will simply encounter those on the “lunatic fringe”? “I have found those are the people who have all the answers, but people to whom something like this has really happened don’t. They have millions of questions. There is a humility about them, they realise it’s not about them.
At the beginning of the project Nickerson set about contacting those people who had been among the 62 children who had witnessed the sighting. They are mainly students in Canada, the United States, New Zealand and Britain.
Tracking them down hasn’t been that difficult. “They are contacting us because of what we put up on the John E. Mack Institute website. What is interesting is that their stories remain the same as in 1994.
“They were affected profoundly,” says Nickerson. “At the time one girl was told by her parents not to talk about it, that she had imagined it all. But then she found other people’s stories on the Internet. She got in touch with them and realised ‘Oh my God, that was real’.
“Others I’ve met never doubted it. They say the experience opened up new horizons for them.”
Nickerson cites two students who are now studying in the U.S. “Their father said they would never have done that, but after their experience the children were totally changed, that’s what convinced him that something really happened.”
Nickerson’s first stop during his visit to southern Africa was Ariel School. “I interviewed teachers and workers who were there at the time.” He also came across people from two different schools in the area who had similar sightings on the same day.
Nickerson is now in South Africa trying to track down those living here who were witnesses on that day. He will be here until the end of April following up leads resulting from two radio interviews he has given.
If you witnessed the Ariel School sighting or have any information regarding it, you can contact Randall Nickerson at — — —- or e-mail rsnick@gmail.com You can also contact Nicky Carter at 072 632 2330 or producer Dominique Callimanopulos on domcall94@gmail.com
Check out the website: www.johnemackinstitute.org
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 Prisoner#1
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15171249 - 10/03/11 10:08 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
markst said:
The truth of the matter is most Zimbabweans do not concern themselves with the supernatural of this nature due to the conservative and Christian upbringing we were brought up with.
I have to disagree with this because firstly religion is based on the
supernatural and superstition and the majority of africa and almost
especially zimbabwe is rife with it, how else would we have an explanation
for things such as these, even the government buys into these tales
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5134244.stm
Quote:
But to most Zimbabweans, especially those who grew up in the rural areas, it has been absurd to say that the supernatural does not exist.
In fact, it is not hard to find vivid stories about the use of magic.
Alfred, for example, believes that he was bewitched at work some years ago, making him partly bald.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1558291/Zimbabwes-crisis-fuels-superstition.html
http://realitybong.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/flying-witch-on-trial-zimbabwe/
TQuote:
hese are the same Christian people continent-wide who hunt down children suspected of being witches; the children are imprisoned, brutally tortured, mutilated, and/or killed.
http://articles.cnn.com/2009-05-18/world/nigeria.child.witchcraft_1_witches-nigeria-abuse?_s=PM:WORLD
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"I beat him severely with canes until they broke, yet he never shed a tear," said Eshiett Nelson Eshiett, 76. "One day, I took a broom to hit him and he started crying. Then I knew he was possessed by demons. ... Nigerian witches are terrified of brooms."
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/episode-guide/series-8/episode-1
you say what you want to to try and validate this crap about christianity bringing about removal of superstition, supernatural or what ever but the evidence is overwhelmingly against you
in two words I can sum up how fucked up zimbabwe is but I'll let 2
pictures state it far more clearly than I
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Space Elf
Registered: 07/29/10
Posts: 2,290
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15171482 - 10/03/11 11:05 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
markst said:
I feel that these reports are easily fragmented with deception and the psychological aspect that people want to believe there is another kind out there visiting them.
In my experience, the exact opposite is true. Overriding my skepticism and coming to believe in something as outlandish as the existence of UFOs wasn't easy. It's no coincidence that most people who believe in them are qualifiable 'experts' on this subject. You pretty much have to be. For me, it took months of studying this subject in order to condition my mind to even begin accepting it as a reality.
The conjecture that UFOs are alien spacecraft is entirely a different matter. Unless you've met the UFO occupants the only thing you can do is rule out the possibility of an earth/human-based origin, but that still doesn't necessarily imply that they're extraterrestrials.
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Edited by Space Elf (10/03/11 11:12 AM)
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Tri High
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Space Elf] 2
#15171603 - 10/03/11 11:34 AM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Hahaha, America-Georgia native telling a zimbabwe native about zimbabwean culture.
LOL.
Markst +1
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you just need money to get laid - starfire_xes
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markst
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15172727 - 10/03/11 04:02 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
I have to disagree with this because firstly religion is based on the
supernatural and superstition and the majority of africa and almost
especially zimbabwe is rife with it, how else would we have an explanation
for things such as these, even the government buys into these tales
You are correct to some degree and I'm well aware of the rural and tribal superstitions of the Shone and Ndebele people.
However not all of us Zimbabweans were brought up this way, especially those who attended Ariel which is a post-colonial school. The people who you are talking about who believed in witch doctors, could not afford to send their children to a privileged school such as Ariel. Black and white kids who attended these private schools were given a Christian upbringing.
For instance:
The children vary in cultures: there are black, white, coloured and Asian children. One little girl said to me, 'I swear by every hair on my head and the whole Bible that I am telling the truth.' I could see the pleasure on her face when I told her that I believed her. The smaller children from 5-7 years were very frightened at the time and ran shouting 'Help me, help me.'
http://www.mapit.kk5.org/#/ruwa-ufo-incident/4535362721
http://ufos.about.com/od/ufohistory/a/ruwa.htm
Quote:
But to most Zimbabweans, especially those who grew up in the rural areas, it has been absurd to say that the supernatural does not exist.
In fact, it is not hard to find vivid stories about the use of magic.
Alfred, for example, believes that he was bewitched at work some years ago, making him partly bald.
I know for a fact from my own up bringing in Zim that I was quite sheltered from these supernatural beliefs that was exhibited by the locals. My parents certainly did not share the beliefs in witchdoctor or anything of that nature with the locals. Ariel and the school that I attended which was Barwick would have been very similar, we were taught about the Bible, we would have to sings hymns about Biblical stories during assembly and prey before every meal and I remember even preying every night before bed. At high school I had to attend Church 3x a week.
Quote:
you say what you want to to try and validate this crap about christianity bringing about removal of superstition, supernatural or what ever but the evidence is overwhelmingly against you
in two words I can sum up how fucked up zimbabwe is but I'll let 2
pictures state it far more clearly than I
What I was saying was that the only supernatural context that these kids would have been aware of are the Biblical stories. The UFO phenomenon would certainly not be exposed to these kids who grew up in a Christian setting. One of the black girls had never even heard of UFO's before this incident.
Again I'm extremely well aware of how fucked up Zimbabwe is, it was the reason why my family and many others(including the kids from Ariel) had to immigrate. My folks immigrated to Australia, so hi from Australia. 
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markst
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15172803 - 10/03/11 04:19 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Also some of the black children from Ariel who had seen the extra terrestrial had believed it was a Tikoloshe which is an extremely common myth in Zimbabwe. This made them especially terrefied of what they had witnessed. For those who do not know what a Tikoloshe is, it is a small creature (roughly the height of a child) of this kind:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tikoloshe
http://roadtravel1.wordpress.com/2011/05/21/the-south-african-tokoloshe/
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markst
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15172860 - 10/03/11 04:30 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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I would also like to point out that I have made some eerily connections with Terence Mckenna's Lecture of The Definitive UFO Tape.
Terence Mckenna acknowledges the UFO phenomenon as being something experienced out of humanity's collective unconscious which he refers to as the "over soul". Terence Mckenna's apocalyptic message is eerily similar to that mentioned by the kids at Ariel school who had witnessed the extra terrestrial.
The conclusion that I have come to, is perhaps given that these were children that means their minds are not as conditioned as us adults. Perhaps this gives credence to a child's mind being more connected with the "over soul". This is all pure speculation on my part but one hell of a interesting theory.
If someone who is more knowledgeable of Terence Mckenna or Carl Jung's notion of the UFO. Could you perhaps elaborate on this point a bit more? Or I'm I not getting anywhere with this? Sorry I'm kinda new to this whole UFO phenomenon. 
Edited by markst (10/03/11 04:32 PM)
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markst
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15172902 - 10/03/11 04:37 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Cynthia Hind who had investigated this incident at Ariel, also claimed that an extremely similar occurrence had happened in Britain in the late 70's. Unfortunately I cannot find a link to this occurrence. But this is definitely not the first time where kids have witnessed UFO's.
My Grandmother knew of Cynthia Hinds in Zimbabwe and had met her on a few occasions.
Bob Digby (BUFORA) interview with South African ufo researcher Cynthia Hind.
The world-famous ufologist passed away in 2000.
Edited by markst (10/03/11 04:53 PM)
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Prisoner#1
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Tri High] 2
#15173014 - 10/03/11 05:00 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
Tri High said:
Hahaha, America-Georgia native telling a zimbabwe native about zimbabwean culture.
I've seen the movie tarzan, I have a pretty damned good idea of what the state of affairs in zimbabwe is
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Prisoner#1
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15173398 - 10/03/11 06:02 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
markst said:
Quote:
I have to disagree with this because firstly religion is based on the
supernatural and superstition and the majority of africa and almost
especially zimbabwe is rife with it, how else would we have an explanation
for things such as these, even the government buys into these tales
You are correct to some degree and I'm well aware of the rural and tribal superstitions of the Shone and Ndebele people.
However not all of us Zimbabweans were brought up this way, especially those who attended Ariel which is a post-colonial school. The people who you are talking about who believed in witch doctors, could not afford to send their children to a privileged school such as Ariel. Black and white kids who attended these private schools were given a Christian upbringing.
it's deeply rooted in the Zimbabwe government hence the witchcraft laws,
understand that this is the same nation who's government ousted whites
only to introduce famine. while christian upbringing may discourage this
sort of thing it certainly doesnt eliminate it, even Charlize Theron
believes in Tokoloshe, a white, educated at preparatory and boarding
schools and with a christian upbringing
the beliefs of the peoples in Africa are no different than those on the
other continents where christians have converted by force the populations,
santeria is a wonderful example of this as are other vodou based religions
Quote:
For instance:
The children vary in cultures: there are black, white, coloured and Asian children. One little girl said to me, 'I swear by every hair on my head and the whole Bible that I am telling the truth.' I could see the pleasure on her face when I told her that I believed her. The smaller children from 5-7 years were very frightened at the time and ran shouting 'Help me, help me.'
I swear on a book of superstition...
let's give the rest of this passage
The children vary in cultures: there are black, white, coloured and Asian children. One little girl said to me, 'I swear by every hair on my head and the whole Bible that I am telling the truth.' I could see the pleasure on her face when I told her that I believed her. The smaller children from 5-7 years were very frightened at the time and ran shouting 'Help me, help me.' When the older children asked why they were saying this, the reply was, 'He is coming to eat us.' I should think this applied more to the black African children who have legends of _tokoloshies_ eating children.
why would you omit the passage about the tokoloshi even though it's deeply
rooted in the cultures of many african nations and even many white
children brought up in these nations have begun to believe these
superstitions
so these fine christian children that have shed superstition for the
abrahimic god still believe in the superstitions of their parents
Quote:
I know for a fact from my own up bringing in Zim that I was quite sheltered from these supernatural beliefs that was exhibited by the locals. My parents certainly did not share the beliefs in witchdoctor or anything of that nature with the locals. Ariel and the school that I attended which was Barwick would have been very similar, we were taught about the Bible, we would have to sings hymns about Biblical stories during assembly and prey before every meal and I remember even preying every night before bed. At high school I had to attend Church 3x a week.
you were sheltered and taught a different superstition, you also were not
of the same cultural background as some nor were some of the others, asian
kids have a different cultural background than the european kids, etc...
we dont know all the superstitions believed by all these different people.
my mother, my grandmother and great grandmother are all 'christian' yet
the still hold on to the superstitions of their cultures, think about the
pinch of salt over the shoulder. I dont believe the devil or brownies or
any other sinister creature is over my left shoulder so I see no need to
toss salt if some is spilled but I know many that do
it's really amazing how superstition carries through generations, many
without even knowing about them
Quote:
What I was saying was that the only supernatural context that these kids would have been aware of are the Biblical stories. The UFO phenomenon would certainly not be exposed to these kids who grew up in a Christian setting. One of the black girls had never even heard of UFO's before this incident.
you do not know that, you also dont know how many are telling the same
story as the others in order to 'fit in' and you cant try and convince me
that there arent different social groups even within the Ariel school.
within the interviewd kids the stories varied so greatly, hovering,
running, sitting, standing, on the ground, on top of the craft, eye shape,
etc... a few of the children have the earmarks, the tell of someone being
less than honest with the recollection
there's a lot of inconsistencies between the stories, were the children
asked individually to repeat what they'd seen on multiple occasions? if so
then what were the stories of each child in comparison to the previous
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Prisoner#1
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15173465 - 10/03/11 06:10 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
markst said:
Also some of the black children from Ariel who had seen the extra terrestrial had believed it was a Tikoloshe which is an extremely common myth in Zimbabwe. This made them especially terrefied of what they had witnessed. For those who do not know what a Tikoloshe is, it is a small creature (roughly the height of a child) of this kind:
but you said they were not superstitious because they were taught from the bible
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Prisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: markst]
#15173510 - 10/03/11 06:16 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
markst said:
If someone who is more knowledgeable of Terence Mckenna or Carl Jung's notion of the UFO. C
appeal to authority, it's a fallacious argument because neither was there at the time of the incident
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_authority
McKenna is just some druggie twat that wrote some books
Jung believe in astrology and alchemy, somehow the stars never managed to
align and help him turn lead into gold. jung was also a believer in the
supernatural and the occult... his own brand of superstitions
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markst
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Re: The most compelling UFO sighting in recorded history happened in Africa/Zimbabwe [Re: Prisoner#1]
#15174334 - 10/03/11 08:53 PM (7 months, 19 days ago) |
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Quote:
it's deeply rooted in the Zimbabwe government hence the witchcraft laws,
understand that this is the same nation who's government ousted whites
only to introduce famine. while christian upbringing may discourage this
sort of thing it certainly doesnt eliminate it, even Charlize Theron
believes in Tokoloshe, a white, educated at preparatory and boarding
schools and with a christian upbringing
the beliefs of the peoples in Africa are no different than those on the
other continents where christians have converted by force the populations,
santeria is a wonderful example of this as are other vodou based religions
This is where you have proved yourself to be extremely naive. Have you traveled to Zimbabwe before? Do you know of any Zimbabweans, any white Zimbabweans in particular? Because I can assure you that 98% of white Zimbabweans are extremely skeptical of the Tikoloshe and I know this because I'm one of them. Give me an example of a white Zimbabwean who thoroughly believes in the Tikoloshe as well as other African superstitions, you will be hard pressed to find one. Also keep in mind that Charlie Theron is not Zimbabwean, she is from South Africa and I'm pretty sure she is only using her celebrity status to promote the cultural background of the Swahili in South Africa to gullible Americans. Most white South Africans do not hold any African superstitious beliefs either.
Quote:
I swear on a book of superstition...
let's give the rest of this passage
The children vary in cultures: there are black, white, coloured and Asian children. One little girl said to me, 'I swear by every hair on my head and the whole Bible that I am telling the truth.' I could see the pleasure on her face when I told her that I believed her. The smaller children from 5-7 years were very frightened at the time and ran shouting 'Help me, help me.' When the older children asked why they were saying this, the reply was, 'He is coming to eat us.' I should think this applied more to the black African children who have legends of _tokoloshies_ eating children.
why would you omit the passage about the tokoloshi even though it's deeply
rooted in the cultures of many african nations and even many white
children brought up in these nations have begun to believe these
superstitions
so these fine christian children that have shed superstition for the
abrahimic god still believe in the superstitions of their parents
I did not purposely omit the passage about the Tikoloshe and I already answered that question in the above post here:
Quote:
Also some of the black children from Ariel who had seen the extra terrestrial had believed it was a Tikoloshe which is an extremely common myth in Zimbabwe. This made them especially terrefied of what they had witnessed. For those who do not know what a Tikoloshe is, it is a small creature (roughly the height of a child) of this kind:
Are you incompetent of reading my posts? Like I said before the majority of white children do not hold these African superstitious beliefs. If they thought it was a Tikoloshe then the incident would have been labeled "62 Children testify to have seen a Tikoloshe" not "62 Children testify to have seen a UFO". There is a clear difference! Hence why I don't even acknowledge your point or where you are going with this?
I'm simply stating that if it had been a ghost, I would be highly skeptical because ghosts fit within the paradigm of the Christian belief system. If it had been a Tikoloshe I would be highly skeptical because some of the black children would be aware of the myth.
But it was neither a Tikoloshe or a ghost, it was a UFO. Do you know see my point, a UFO does not fit the paradigm of any cultural belief system in Zimbabwe.
Quote:
you were sheltered and taught a different superstition, you also were not
of the same cultural background as some nor were some of the others, asian
kids have a different cultural background than the european kids, etc...
we dont know all the superstitions believed by all these different people.
my mother, my grandmother and great grandmother are all 'christian' yet
the still hold on to the superstitions of their cultures, think about the
pinch of salt over the shoulder. I dont believe the devil or brownies or
any other sinister creature is over my left shoulder so I see no need to
toss salt if some is spilled but I know many that do
I have already answered this, the truth of matter is the children in Ariel were brought up with Christian belief system. Their parents would be outraged if any other belief system dominated over their Christian values and that is including most of the black children as well. All of us white kids shared a very similar British cultural background. None of us were brought up to believe in UFO's or Tikoloshes.
Quote:
you do not know that, you also dont know how many are telling the same
story as the others in order to 'fit in' and you cant try and convince me
that there arent different social groups even within the Ariel school.
within the interviewd kids the stories varied so greatly, hovering,
running, sitting, standing, on the ground, on top of the craft, eye shape,
etc... a few of the children have the earmarks, the tell of someone being
less than honest with the recollection
there's a lot of inconsistencies between the stories, were the children
asked individually to repeat what they'd seen on multiple occasions? if so
then what were the stories of each child in comparison to the previous
This is where we have a difference in opinion because I found that the children's stories were incredibly consistent for their age. Every single one of them claimed to have seen a "black" being, some said it was wearing a black suit. Every child claimed to have seen 3 objects in the sky and one of them landing near the school playground. Every child claimed to have witnessed a being with big black eyes in the shape of rugby balls. Every child who was in the playground was traumatized by the experience, well some were extremely curious or excited by the event. The fact is they all witnessed something that can not be explained by their set of cultural beliefs.
The black people in particular have absolutely no clue of UFO's or anything sci/fi of the sort, nor do they have any interest in it. They are extremely skeptical of these superstitious Western myths(other than Christianity, thanks to the colonial missionary's) as we are of their myths. Yet every black child claimed to have witnessed a spaceship landing in the playground.
Edited by markst (10/03/11 11:25 PM)
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