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Currently, all RC's are directed from the Psychedelic Experience forum to ODD. I propose we have a discussion on letting some, very specific, RC's cross over from Other Drugs Discussion into the Psychedelic Experience forum.

I feel it would be a good thing to do so, but only if we choose our candidates carefully, the ones with a good track record and with certain structural features present or missing.

I want to especially involve our mods with chemical and pharmacological knowledge in the details, but all staffers who want so can participate I feel.

I will name a short list of what I consider suitable candidates, then get into the Why of things.

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Wiccan's RC exemption list

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SIMPLE TRYPTAMINES
These particular tryptamines give psychedelic action without distinct side effects or toxicity. All have been used in ayahuasca analogues.

DMT (need I say more?)
MET (chemically & pharmacologically inbetween DMT and DET)
DET (well established since the 1960s)
DPT ("Holy Ghost", well established simple tryptamine, history of therapeutic use and used as the religious sacrament of the Temple of the True Inner Light)

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4-HYDROXY DERIVATIVES OF THREE OF THE ABOVE SIMPLE TRYPTAMINES
4-HO substitution of these simple tryptamines enhances oral activity, and this substitution as far as is known does not add novel pharmacological or toxic action

4-HO-DMT (Psilocin)
4-HO-MET (inbetween, as above)
4-HO-DET (4-HO-DET received the lab code CZ-74 in the late 1950s by the inventors of the substance, Albert Hofmann and Franz Troxler. The substance was used together with its phosporyloxy-analog CEY-19 in human clinical trials in the 1960s by the German researchers Hanscarl Leuner and G. Baer. No toxicity was shown.)
---> The DPT analog is insufficiently studied and should not be included

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ACETATE ESTERS OF THE THREE ABOVE 4-HYDROXY TRYPTAMINES
There is no reason to assume that these compounds do anything other than act as a prodrug to the above 4-HO-Tryptamines, when taken by any other route than IV injection, yielding the 4-HO-Tryptamine and acetic acid, just like aspirin is a prodrug for salicylic acid

4-AcO-DMT (yields Psilocin in vivo, the RC equivalent of shrooms, this is in essence "legal psilocin")
4-AcO-MET (inbetween)
4-AcO-DET (yields CZ-74 in vivo)

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SELECTED PSYCHEDELIC METHOXYLATED PHENETHYLAMINES
Selection of these Mescaline analogs requires extensive use, generic psychedelic action with low side effects and a toxicity probably lower than that of Mescaline.

3,4,5-TMPEA (Mescaline)
2C-B (widely used recreationally, has been extensively used therapeutically, probably very safe, Shulgin himself documented a fourfold OD of the maximum dosage to be without consequence)
2C-D (Has been used therapeutically as LE-25, shallow dose/response curve, threefold OD of the maximum dose has been reported as relatively uneventful)
2C-E (The 2C most widely praised for its depth and merit, very widely used recreationally for a long time without significant issues emerging. Some users take triple or fivefold maximum doses apparently without ill effect. People have used a dose of 5x the maximum oral dose as an intravenous injection and lived.)

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SEMI-SYNTHETIC LYSERGAMIDES
Semi-synthetic derivatives of Lysergic Acid Amide that probably are relatively safe.
LSD-25 (Lysergide)
LAE-32 (Inbetween LSA and LSD, developed and marketed by sandoz as an experimental psychotherapeutic drug, no adverse somatic reactions found)
LSA (Ergine, main isolate from morning glory/woodrose)
ALD-52 (prodrug to LSD, widely used in the 1960s)

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So, all of the above in a nutshell:

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Wiccan's proposed list of GRAS Research Chemicals

DMT (Dimethyltryptamine)
MET (Methylethyltryptamine)
DET (T-9)
DPT (Holy Ghost)
4-HO-DMT (Psilocin)
4-HO-MET (Metocin)
4-HO-DET (CZ-74)
4-AcO-DMT (Psilacetin)
4-AcO-MET (Metoacetin)
4-AcO-DET (Ethacetin)
3,4,5-TMPEA (Mescaline)
2C-B (Nexus)
2C-D (LE-25)
2C-E (Europa)
LSD (Lysergide)
LAE-32 (N-ethyllysergamide)
LSA (Ergine)
ALD-52 (Orange Sunshine)

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There are some very big players MISSING here, for the following reasons:

I'm excluding all tryptamines with either a 5-substitution, an alpha alkyl substitution, and an N-isopropyl or N-allylsubstitution because these substitutions tend to introduce novel and sometimes toxic actions. I agree with 5-MeO-DMT recently being moved to ODD even though it has centuries of indigenous use.

I'm excluding all psychedelic methoxylated amphetamines period (half of PiHKAL) because they all tend to have stronger stimulant action and vasoconstriction, and are less forgiving in overdoses. For the same reasons I have excluded all cathinones (alpha-alkyl-beta-keto-phenethylamines).

MDA, MDMA, MDEA etc are atypical psychedelics with novel actions prone to addiction related behaviors, such as fiending and binge use. Also, they are a scene intimately related with amphetamines and RC stimulants, often found with them in the same pill.

2C-P has too steep a dose/response curve and there are worrisome somatic effects within twice the maximum dose for some.
2C-C has an added sedative action - novel effect
2C-I has many reports of HPPD and some reports of thyroid pain which is worrisome given its iodine content which might indicate thyrotoxicity. 2C-I does appear to adversely interact in people with hyperthyroidism on thyroid hormonal therapy, showing that the thyroid, a tiny but vital organ, is involved in 2C-I's action.

I have excluded all 2C-T compounds. They are much enjoyed (especially T-7 and T-2) but the effective dose varies widely among users and there have been a number of fatalities, some by not-too-outrageous overdoses. It is likely given clues based on fatalities that the 2C-T's or metabolites are MOA-A inhibitors, such as them apparently having a magnifying effect on the cardiovascular action of ephedrine and MDMA, leading to death. The maximum dosage of 2C-T-7, the compound least prone to side effects, is 30mg. Someone snorted 35mg and died.

Personally I would prefer to see Salvia moved to Other Drugs because I don't think its that benign and it is definitely a kappa-opioid agonist, a selective kind of opiate rather than something active on serotonin.

I would like "syrian rue seeds, banisteriopsis caapi and extracts thereof to be used in ayahuasca" to be included in the herbs list and "MAO-inhibitors unrelated to natural harmala alkaloids" to be specifically confined to OOD because pharmaceutical MAOI tend to be much more severe and longlived in action than the natural ayahuasca herbs and extracts.


Ladies and gentlemen, lets discuss this

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