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 Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
 
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,367
Loc: SF Bay Area 
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 Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? 
#14599934 - 06/12/11 10:56 AM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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Have you ever had a psychedelic experience where you felt you were being shown some sort of "ultimate truth" about the nature of reality? If so, what exactly did you experience, and why do you interpret that experience as having something to do with some sort of "ultimate truth" about the nature of reality?
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylan   fireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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 Grapefruit
Oblivious Fool
Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 4,707
Last seen: 13 hours, 33 minutes
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 Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: Poid]
#14599943 - 06/12/11 11:01 AM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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They both distort an amplify your subjective reality. There may be elements of subjective reality that do not seem similar to other emotions or emotions we would normally experience.It's perhaps possible that you could pin these with the label "truth" or "tao" or whatever.
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I remember when I believed in meaning
Those days aside the hilltop where the sunlight sky and meadows below spoke promises of eternal future
And I remember the day the world turned on me, how frightened I was and the idiotic surprise I was met with
I should've known!
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Seanfu
Jesus Christ Tacos
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Posts: 2,131
Loc: Brazil
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: Grapefruit]
#14600497 - 06/12/11 02:04 PM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said:
They both distort an amplify your subjective reality. There may be elements of subjective reality that do not seem similar to other emotions or emotions we would normally experience.It's perhaps possible that you could pin these with the label "truth" or "tao" or whatever.
Our subjective reality could all be distortion. Imo psyches as well as meditation, mantra, music, even alcohol can show hidden truth. The mushrooms dont have to be magic, they can just be potent.
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I am a chronic liar.
   
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Grapefruit
Oblivious Fool
Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: Seanfu]
#14600699 - 06/12/11 02:43 PM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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Yeah I take that part back you're right it could all be distortion. I still think that they can't show you anything that isn't, purerly subjective, potentially and probably likely to be a distortion, and indeed most likely in no way representing any ultimate objective truth.
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I remember when I believed in meaning
Those days aside the hilltop where the sunlight sky and meadows below spoke promises of eternal future
And I remember the day the world turned on me, how frightened I was and the idiotic surprise I was met with
I should've known!
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laserpig
Weedmaster_P
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: Grapefruit] 1
#14600779 - 06/12/11 02:59 PM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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I believe they point you towards noticing things you didn't notice before.
In general, the more things you notice, the more you have the potential to understand. The more you understand, the less likely you are to behave or speak falsely. In that sense, psychedelics do point you towards truth. (I don't know about "ultimate" truth. I don't know how that's distinct from the regular kind.)
I think psychedelics push your mind to confront things that you normally wouldn't, thus allowing new opportunities to learn. More opportunity to learn = more learning, generally speaking.
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Grapefruit
Oblivious Fool
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: laserpig]
#14600812 - 06/12/11 03:05 PM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
I believe they point you towards noticing things you didn't notice before.
In general, the more things you notice, the more you have the potential to understand. The more you understand, the less likely you are to behave or speak falsely. In that sense, psychedelics do point you towards truth. (I don't know about "ultimate" truth. I don't know how that's distinct from the regular kind.)
I think psychedelics push your mind to confront things that you normally wouldn't, thus allowing new opportunities to learn. More opportunity to learn = more learning, generally speaking.
 I agree, still you gotta take anything you learn fucked up with a pinch of salt. It's when people start getting certain they've uncovered a truth on their trip that somehow applies to everyone or any objective reality that it starts getting a bit new agey.
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I remember when I believed in meaning
Those days aside the hilltop where the sunlight sky and meadows below spoke promises of eternal future
And I remember the day the world turned on me, how frightened I was and the idiotic surprise I was met with
I should've known!
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Grapefruit
Oblivious Fool
Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 4,707
Last seen: 13 hours, 33 minutes
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: Poid]
#14602233 - 06/12/11 07:46 PM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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Hey so Poid, what're you saying on this? Unless you're just attempting to ensnare a true believer and scare them away. 
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I remember when I believed in meaning
Those days aside the hilltop where the sunlight sky and meadows below spoke promises of eternal future
And I remember the day the world turned on me, how frightened I was and the idiotic surprise I was met with
I should've known!
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,367
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: Grapefruit]
#14602290 - 06/12/11 08:01 PM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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Eh, I am just interested in hearing the perspective of someone who has felt like psychedelics have shown them some sort of great truth about the nature of reality..I like hearing people's psychedelically fueled mystico-religious grandeur delusions from time to time.
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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Grapefruit
Oblivious Fool
Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 4,707
Last seen: 13 hours, 33 minutes
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: Poid]
#14602307 - 06/12/11 08:06 PM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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I remember when I believed in meaning
Those days aside the hilltop where the sunlight sky and meadows below spoke promises of eternal future
And I remember the day the world turned on me, how frightened I was and the idiotic surprise I was met with
I should've known!
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 22,569
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: Poid]
#14602327 - 06/12/11 08:11 PM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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I think that psychedelics get us in touch with other parts of our mind that we are normally not conscious of, and that integrating such experiences with our normal baseline consciousness helps give us a more complete picture. It's not that one is more true than the other. It's that each kind of experience can point us to different truths. To quote one of my favorite philosophers:
"There are moments of sentimental and mystical experience . . . that carry an enormous sense of inner authority and illumination with them when they come. But they come seldom, and they do not come to everyone; and the rest of life makes either no connection with them, or tends to contradict them more than it confirms them. Some persons follow more the voice of the moment in these cases, some prefer to be guided by the average results. Hence the sad discordancy of so many of the spiritual judgments of human beings."
-- William James, The Varieties of Religious Experience
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Edited by Silversoul (06/12/11 08:18 PM)
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don_vedo
MerKaBa
Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 1,383
Loc: 5th dimension
Last seen: 1 month, 12 days
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: Poid]
#14602425 - 06/12/11 08:37 PM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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In all my trips I have felt like I have been shown the true nature of reality. But in my opinion the true nature of reality is infinite and holds within it an infinite amount of possibilities.
My latest trip led me to a very strange experience where time and space stopped. I was with a buddy, we were both pretty silent just exploring things for ourselves when I felt as if I was shown a portion of the true infinity of reality itself.
I was walking around my apartment when everything stopped, it was almost like someone hit the pause button on the TV and everything was frozen expect for me. Literally the ceiling fan that was on, froze, the clock on my wall froze and the dial stopped moving, my buddy froze, and all sounds ceased to exist.
What happened next was all thoughts in my head, but for those moments in my head which honestly felt like hours the room and everything in it remained frozen. Anyways I thought of life kind of like the matrix in a way; I thought that we were all linked to a larger consciousness that was experiencing itself from every perspective that ever was and ever could be...infinite. From a personal point of view I saw myself experiencing every situation in a different time and place all happening at once. It was as if there was an infinite amount of me's experiencing all possibilities from a different point of view at the same time. Kind of strange but it all made crystal clear sense while it was happening and it felt so right; honestly I was very fearful of not coming back at the time and thought that since I had figured it all out, reality for me would stop and I would be sucked back to the collective.
The weirdest thing about this trip for me was that I had peaked a couple hours before this experience and surely thought I was sobering up when all the sudden the thoughts came out of left field.
There was definitely more to this trip then I am divulging but that is the framework of the experience I hope it makes at least a little sense. For myself psychedelic experiences are very personal and not something you just flaunt around; I find that every single person has unique experiences that hold meaning to them, which is not something anyone else can understand and for that matter judge and put down.
I interpret my experiences not from the thoughts that I experience but from the feelings I feel while experiencing these thoughts. For myself I hold a lot of belief in feelings and emotion. Intuition is held high in my life, in my opinion symbols such as words give rise to feelings which give rise to truth. So for me I experience "ultimate truth" from all my psychedelic experiences.
However like I said from the start all experience give rise to truth in one way or the other, it is in my opinion that all is right and all is true. The nature of our reality is infinite in my opinion.
Lah'Kesh
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
Edited by don_vedo (06/12/11 08:45 PM)
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Poid
Shroomery's #1 Spellir
Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40,367
Loc: SF Bay Area
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: don_vedo]
#14602459 - 06/12/11 08:44 PM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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Good post.
Though I wish you would go into greater detail about your experience, and the feelings associated with it. 
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Well I try my best to be just like I am, but everybody wants you to be just like them. -- Bob Dylanfireworks_god said:It's one thing to simply enjoy a style of life that one enjoys, but it's another thing altogether to refer to another person's choice as "wrong" or to rationalize their behavior as being pathological or resulting from some sort of inadequacy or failing so as to create a sense of superiority or separation as yet another projection of a personal fear or control issue.
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don_vedo
MerKaBa
Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 1,383
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Last seen: 1 month, 12 days
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: Poid]
#14602494 - 06/12/11 08:55 PM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Though I wish you would go into greater detail about your experience, and the feelings associated with it.
Thanks Poid I appreciate it, I'm sorry about not divulging more. Like I said I just hold my psychedelic experiences to the highest level. I do not trip to have a good time, although all my trips are incredible and in some way life changing. It would honestly be hard to replicate in words the feelings that are felt during the experiences themselves.
Like silversoul I believe psychedelics allow the individual to use a part of the brain that is unknown and unused in normal circumstances.
Lah'Kesh
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
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c0sm0nautt
Registered: 05/19/08
Posts: 10,034
Loc: NY
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: don_vedo]
#14602533 - 06/12/11 09:04 PM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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Wow awesome experience. 
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The intuitive mind is a sacred gift, and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant, and has forgotten the gift. - Albert Einstein
    
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,487
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: Poid]
#14602955 - 06/12/11 10:30 PM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Poid said:
Have you ever had a psychedelic experience where you felt you were being shown some sort of "ultimate truth" about the nature of reality? If so, what exactly did you experience, and why do you interpret that experience as having something to do with some sort of "ultimate truth" about the nature of reality?
Have I? Yes, many times, but I no longer see it that way except in one respect. Psychedelic trips convinced me there was much more to reality then I knew or could ever know. Maybe that's an ultimate truth.
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
Edited by Icelander (06/12/11 10:31 PM)
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don_vedo
MerKaBa
Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 1,383
Loc: 5th dimension
Last seen: 1 month, 12 days
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: Icelander]
#14603064 - 06/12/11 10:51 PM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Psychedelic trips convinced me there was much more to reality then I knew or could ever know. Maybe that's an ultimate truth.
I like that Ice, some real truth there.
Lah'Kesh
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Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us all. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same.
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JackofSpades
Peace
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 2,897
Last seen: 3 months, 27 days
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: don_vedo]
#14603567 - 06/13/11 12:57 AM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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On Ayahuasca, I just watched after the world in front of me melt into a massive brilliantly colored vibrational field and then a giant golden kingdom appeared in the sky emitting from my third eye...This was about 30 minutes after I had sat on the ground crying my eyes out for two hours from having repressed emotions released due to the maoi...
The only "truth" I feel I experienced from that is the "world" is really just formless consciousness given form or "hardened" by thought and mental conditioning, which we then mistakenly perceive as something external to us...All you are is the result of what you have thought, eh?
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  If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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JackofSpades
Peace
Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 2,897
Last seen: 3 months, 27 days
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: Icelander]
#14603598 - 06/13/11 01:05 AM (2 years, 7 days ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Poid said:
Have you ever had a psychedelic experience where you felt you were being shown some sort of "ultimate truth" about the nature of reality? If so, what exactly did you experience, and why do you interpret that experience as having something to do with some sort of "ultimate truth" about the nature of reality?
Have I? Yes, many times, but I no longer see it that way except in one respect. Psychedelic trips convinced me there was much more to reality then I knew or could ever know. Maybe that's an ultimate truth.
I only know I know nothing. Eastern teachers suggest you can never know reality, only be it.
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If you're frightened of dying and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the earth.
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Tony
Stranger
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: JackofSpades]
#14604566 - 06/13/11 06:07 AM (2 years, 6 days ago) |
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Ayahusca opened up a radical experience for me as well. The most enduring aspect of it was that any hope of some kind of future attainment is false. Truth has to be ever-present, otherwise you reduce it to a myth.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 80,487
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Do you believe that psychedelic experiences point one to some sort of "ultimate truth"? [Re: Tony]
#14604713 - 06/13/11 07:59 AM (2 years, 6 days ago) |
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"People convince themselves of their own lies, becoming victims of their own inventions as they begin to direct their lives by standards of behavior, ideas, feelings, or instincts which do not correspond to their inner reality. What is truly serious in this matter is that the individual loses all points of reference regarding what comprises truth, and what comprises lies. He becomes used to considering as true only that which is convenient for his personal interests; everything that is in opposition to his self-esteem or in conflict with already established prejudices, he considers false."
- John Baines
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